US women’s soccer team’s equal pay Dismissed

a reply to: Bluntone22

Fair enough, no dog in this fight.

It just seems superfluous and states what is needed to perform at the international level.

Are these not attributes of the women who are on the Women's National team?

a reply to: Bluntone22

But you also have a daughter who competes don't you? I know that changes your perspective a little bit. My dad appreciates women's sports a lot more now, but he raised me and my sister and we were both big athletes. That appreciation has hung on, and he now watches the women's basketball team for our alma mater.

My cousin is similar in that his daughter played softball, and he's now into watching college women's softball.

If you wanna see impressive you should check out men In women’s sports. Dominating.

The South Park episode “Broad Girls” which features a trans version on Randy Savage competing in girls sports tackles the issue in a satirical way but it still kinda hits home in a critique of society that only South Park can pull off.

a reply to: ketsuko

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

When I say that about caring about sports like men, I am talking about women in general. Most of the women I know who really care about sports and are fans were themselves into sports at some stage as athletes.

And girls are less inclined than men to go out for sports, and if a girl never went out for sports and enjoyed it, then she's not too likely to suddenly cultivate an appreciation for sports and if she does, she's going to be more likely to watch men's sports I think because everyone else does.

Women's sports is an acquired taste because you aren't going to see the raw physicality of men's sports.

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: Bluntone22

Fair enough, no dog in this fight.

It just seems superfluous and states what is needed to perform at the international level.

Are these not attributes of the women who are on the Women's National team?

They are, but find me the woman who possesses them at the same level as a man on the men's international team. That's the point.

Men and woman are physically different. There is no getting around it, and we have this same discussion every time we bring up the subject of transpeople competing in serious athletics too. It's unfair all the way around for the same reason.

a reply to: ColoradoJens

Yes, women competing on the international level are great athletes.
But only compared to other women.
They are totally outclassed by men in much lower levels of competition.

That pretty much means that fewer will pay to watch them and revenue will be lower.

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: Bluntone22

Fair enough, no dog in this fight.

It just seems superfluous and states what is needed to perform at the international level.

Are these not attributes of the women who are on the Women's National team?

Yes, but that isn't the issue. The issue is that even women of superior athletic ability who are on the Women's National team are not even remotely close to the superior athletic ability to be on the Men's National team hence the difference in pay.

In other words, the Valedictorian at a local community college may be in remedial classes at MIT. The two are not the same.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Bluntone22

But you also have a daughter who competes don't you? I know that changes your perspective a little bit. My dad appreciates women's sports a lot more now, but he raised me and my sister and we were both big athletes. That appreciation has hung on, and he now watches the women's basketball team for our alma mater.

My cousin is similar in that his daughter played softball, and he's now into watching college women's softball.

Yes, my daughter is in multiple sports.
Truthfully I still can't watch women's basketball.

a reply to: ketsuko

Hey, I had a misspelling, I left out a "not" and changed it, but it might have been too late for you to see it.

I generally agree with your reasoning. It might have to do with the activities one can subscribe too. A lot of us were called "lesbians" because we were playing soccer. We played because it was one of the few physical activities except solo activities like riding a bike or jogging.

I am not sure if it has to do with the form everyone tries to fit you in. I was very boy-like, I could not stand playing tea-time, I wanted out, do something. Not brush barbies hair. Naturally I went with the boys. That did not change much as my interests stayed mostly "boyish".

About the raw physicality, sure not the same as on mens level but it is there, the roughness. Always also depends on the player / persona.

If we had more interest in general, the problem would solve itself. Good old "supply and demand" situation. Same with our women/girl sports. Too less demand.

Currently our soccer efforts are a sideshow and I do not see how it could be justified to put up the same salary.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I understand completely.

The competitiveness is the same. Two well-matched competitors are two well-matched competitors at any level in any sport, and if you allow yourself, you can get drawn into the drama of the battle between them. That emotional intensity is always going to be there.

The same with the fundamental skills one has to learn in order to compete.

In order to play soccer well at the international level, the women have to have attained a high level of facility and dexterity with the ball. Even if they aren't as physical with it because they can't be. It isn't because they're expending a lack of effort; it's simply a limitation of the body they are in.

The entire premise is absurd!

If they want more money

• negotiate better contracts
• generate more revenue

This would be like Sheila E complaining that she didn't make as much money as Prince, or Little Eva whining that she didn't rake in the wealth of Elvis.

It's just ludicrous.

That being said, since they're both employed by the same organization, so I can understand contesting there being a difference in the benefits they receive (just not the $ values).

Who here has paid to go see wamens soccer??

a reply to: ketsuko

Plus other uncomfortable circumstances.

Another reason could be that the infrastructure is just not there. Our trainer was a male in his 30s. IDK if such a thing would fly in a different country?

Boy soccer training camp...

and we can replace soccer with most other things. However there are some.. I struggle to call it "sport".. activities where the quote is half half. Self defense for example.

There I learned a lot of guys really do not like it and take it personal if you are ahead of their learning curve. They see it as a kind of an attack on their masculinity. Of course they always have the excuse that they do not hit women as hard as they would.

The most ridiculous thing I ever experienced, was a student already training second form. He joined shortly after I gave up my class because of a lack of time at that moment. I visit sometimes and one day Sifu partnered him with me so he can learn something, learn a lesson he had not learned before. He refused to train with me because I was too "small and weak" and he does not hit women.
He said women do not hit fast and hard enough, Sifu said this one does. He could have learned a lot but decided to stroke his ego.

Then I got my own ass beaten by a student on its way to Sifu-Grade
That was Sifus lesson, for my proud smile, when he said this one does hit hard and fast.

But I go offtopic, sorry I do not have a lot of people to talk to lately :rolleyes:

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Eh, just because top women will be beaten by the top men doesn't men every man will beat every women.

Higher levels of skill can compensate you to some degree as can higher levels of physical fitness. That's a detail that almost always gets ignored in certain discussions as if it can be used to make some kind of point. I could always run faster than all my male cousins when I was in peak physical shape and training as a collegiate sprinter, but I was trained as a collegiate sprinter. They weren't.

originally posted by: Lysergic
Who here has paid to go see wamens soccer??

I've never paid to see any soccer...

a reply to: ketsuko
It is true for many things. Because I do a lot of "untypical" things, I had to face this a lot.

You weld and the weld is as good as perfect -> better sew
You burn a high 9 into the drag strip, rewatch the footage and the commentator calls you Julian, repeatedly use the equivalent for "he" in my language..
Because somehow there is missing the letter "n". It must be a mistake and it has to be Julian, a male of course.
You sit in a camping chair right beneath your car. You have purple hair, purple brake pads, purple engine cover, purple Godzilla in the backwindow. And still get asked if the owner is around. How big of a pole do I need to wave around?

This is why I do not visit car meetings anymore, I go to the strip, do my thing, collect my recipes and drive home. But then you are arrogant and high nosed. Can not make it right ever.

originally posted by: Lysergic
Who here has paid to go see wamens soccer??

Why would anyone pay to see soccer unless your kid was playing and you had to?

As I understand it they have a union and negotiated a contract, what are they complaining about ? They signed off on it did they not ? Also.....they got beat in a scrimmage against 15 year old boys...just saying


Scrimmage Link

a reply to: Falenor

They're mad because even though what they negotiated for gives them a higher percentage of the overall than what the men's contract gives them, they feel bad because it ends up being less. The harsh truth is that less people come to see them so they bring less overall to draw that percentage from.

If they did bring in as much patronage as the men, they'd actually be making more from their contract.

Love women they are awesome, but
Sometimes
I hear the NBA pays their players a % of the gate or something?
That the players become partners in the business

Sporting teams are similar to rock bands as far as economics goes, you get the crowds, generate more income, you deserve more royalties
Don’t think women’s soccer has reached “that” level yet.

Why don’t the US women’s players move to Europe and get more money?

Just read Ketsukos post above mine, sounds like these women in soccer are just greedy and selfish
They don’t even consider the grassroots clubs, helping improve the game, just self serving and politics