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Super heated water and the Pyramids

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posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 08:53 PM
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This has become my new pet theory about how the Egyptians cut harder stones, such as granite.

en.wikipedia.org...

Apparently it can get up to 279 degrees C, if the vessel is smooth enough and the water has no impurities.

www.nature.com...


And mythbusters are always great for these: www.youtube.com...

(They are only testing whether water can be superheated beyond boiling at room pressure. Nothing about granite in this clip.)



However Wiki tells us that granite becomes substantially weaker when it is exposed to water at 650 degrees C, and a few thousand times ambient air pressure. (Which would probably exceed what the Egyptians could do, but maybe getting part way there still helps?)

en.wikipedia.org...



The melting temperature of dry granite at ambient pressure is 1215–1260 °C (2219–2300 °F);[5] it is strongly reduced in the presence of water, down to 650 °C at a few kBar pressure








So the narrative is like this:

1- Ancient Egyptians discover that polished copper can be used as a mirror. (A very crumby one by our standards, but for them it would be a new technology, and they'd think it was amazing to have any mirror at all.)

2- An Egyptian dude decides to try heating bath water by focusing a bunch of polished copper mirrors on a vessel full of water. Hoping that if he can focus enough sunlight on the water to heat it that way, he won't need to keep buying firewood to heat his bath.


Well, it turns out that, while polished copper is a pretty crumby way of reflecting the VISIBLE frequencies light, it is an excellent reflector when it comes to MICROWAVE frequencies of light. And those are the ones that cause water to heat up. Sunlight contains both frequencies (although it has more visible light in it.)

This means there's not actually all that much difference between what he is doing, and a modern microwave, in terms of final result. The water is being exposed to the same thing.

3- His discovery catches on and some nobles start wanting him to heat their baths this way as well.

4- One day he makes the mistake of using a water vessel that is too smooth. Nobles are, of course, too good for tap water from the well, so he has been using nothing but distilled water in his baths.

5- Upon touching the surface with his temperature testing stick (or whatever he likes to use to test if its hot enough yet), the water explodes and scalds him to death.

6- His successor notes that the granite flooring underneath the heating vessel has also been damaged.


And so is born the ultra-secret Egyptian art of using superheated water in their stone cutting!!!!!



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Interesting thread!


A wonderful taste of the 'old style ATS' there.



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 09:10 PM
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Personally, I don't think the Egyptians cut those stones. They were poured. Long before the Egyptians were around


Here is the side of the Sphinx. That's water wear. I think the last time the water was that high may have been millions of years ago. They also found sea shells adhered to it and all around it


edit on 29-4-2020 by visitedbythem because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 09:32 PM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

This has become my new pet theory about how the Egyptians

Only one thing you need to know about the ancient Egyptians: They are the myth.

Everything important in the megalithic structures found in Egypt is older than we 'modern humans' can date ... and we are far far more advanced than the ancient Egyptians. The 'primitive' Egyptians were incapable.

Everything about ancient Egyptians was 'a travel advertisement'. So many gullibles. So many dollars buried in the desert sands.



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 11:13 PM
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Howdy BM

Why would they have distilled water? An inventive idea but it doesn't answer how all the other people who worked granite and harder stone did it.



This great fellow is made out of diorite which the AE used as hammer stones to work granite. Made circa 2100 BC



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 11:50 PM
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Doing some more research on this, it looks like Granite has a melting point of 650 degrees C when exposed to high pressure super heated water. And Diorite is in the 800 to 1000 degrees C range when it is exposed to high pressure super heated water.

Copper melts at 1085 degrees C.

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

This second link discusses how mixture with water at high pressure under the Earth is considered important to the formation of magma, because the inner Earth actually isn't hot enough to melt the materials otherwise.

www.tulane.edu...




Flux Melting - As we saw above, if water or carbon dioxide are added to rock, the melting temperature is lowered. If the addition of water or carbon dioxide takes place deep in the earth where the temperature is already high, the lowering of melting temperature could cause the rock to partially melt to generate magma. One place where water could be introduced is at subduction zones. Here, water present in the pore spaces of the subducting sea floor or water present in minerals like hornblende, biotite, or clay minerals would be released by the rising temperature and then move in to the overlying mantle. Introduction of this water in the mantle would then lower the melting temperature of the mantle to generate partial melts, which could then separate from the solid mantle and rise toward the surface.





So I'm not sure where the "microwave" effect of superheating at normal air pressure stands in all of this. It might end up being a bad fit?

But I do think it is interesting that both rocks melting point is lower than that of copper, when exposed to high temperature and pressure water.

Egyptians might have been able to get high pressure and heat, like supposing if they built a copper vessel that had really really thick walls?

But.... then I don't think they could fit the whole statue inside the pressurized container.

So I'm still missing something.




What if they completely melted the material in their pressurized copper vessel, and then poured it into a (copper) mold?



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 08:51 AM
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So the 2 possibilities are:


1 - Superheated water at 279 degrees C but no pressure, being used perhaps to weaken/soften the stone.

2- Superheated and pressurized water being mixed with stone in a high pressure container in order to create magma.
(We're talking more than 1000 atmospheres of pressure here, but temperatures are below the melting point of copper.)



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

So the 2 possibilities are:


1 - Superheated water at 279 degrees C but no pressure, being used perhaps to weaken/soften the stone.

2- Superheated and pressurized water being mixed with stone in a high pressure container in order to create magma.
(We're talking more than 1000 atmospheres of pressure here, but temperatures are below the melting point of copper.)


The ancient were aware that stone used in stone tools could be modified by placing it in a fire. The heat would alter the flint or other stone making it easier to work/or sharper or more durable.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.becominghuman.org...
www.jstor.org...


However, no signs of any civilization doing what you are suggesting until much nearer our own time. Nevertheless we have abundance evidence across all civilization of their using harder stones to bash granite into shape. The AE also tended to use big chunks of granite so super heating a 70 slab would be a monumental problem - pun intended.



One other point comes to me for I have experience working stone - how would you work a block of stone that is at 650C or higher? You'd would need to be armored against any red hot fragments.



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 10:10 AM
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if only we could gain genuine unfettered access to the vast subterranean underworld that these builds just "happened" to be built over ! Perhaps that's why no one can 100% prove how these were built because there's a significant piece of the puzzle that's missing & simply isn't anywhere to be found above ground & for whatever reason & whatever it may be, ingredient/tool/knowledge/historical record it remains sub Terra & nonsensically hidden from science, human race & sadly possibly advancement from this disastrous way of living we as a species have ground to.Occam's razor approach it.



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: fotsyfots
if only we could gain genuine unfettered access to the vast subterranean underworld that these builds just "happened" to be built over ! Perhaps that's why no one can 100% prove how these were built because there's a significant piece of the puzzle that's missing & simply isn't anywhere to be found above ground & for whatever reason & whatever it may be, ingredient/tool/knowledge/historical record it remains sub Terra & nonsensically hidden from science, human race & sadly possibly advancement from this disastrous way of living we as a species have ground to.Occam's razor approach it.


"genuine unfettered access", an interesting phrase I hope you don't mind if I steal it.

Obviously you've never been down to see this subterranean underworld so may I ask why you think its there?



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 11:51 AM
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I didn't for sure.......but do now !!! mwahahahahahahahaha



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

So the 2 possibilities are:


1 - Superheated water at 279 degrees C but no pressure, being used perhaps to weaken/soften the stone.

2- Superheated and pressurized water being mixed with stone in a high pressure container in order to create magma.
(We're talking more than 1000 atmospheres of pressure here, but temperatures are below the melting point of copper.)


The ancient were aware that stone used in stone tools could be modified by placing it in a fire. The heat would alter the flint or other stone making it easier to work/or sharper or more durable.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.becominghuman.org...
www.jstor.org...


That's pretty good!

It helps establish, at least, that ancient stone workers had considered the possibility of heating stone.

The apparatus required to create artificial magma by compression cooking with steam would not be outside Egypt's technological abilities. I think a copper container is strong enough to hold in the required amount of pressure, if you make it big enough and thick enough, and the heat was obviously obtainable (or else they wouldn't be able to melt copper in the first place.)


The only question is: what would have lead them to attempt it?


The narrative that comes to mind at this point would be some guy trying to gather Diorite or granite dust or chips, and trying to cook them to try and make them into a single rock again.

Since mixing wheat with water, and cooking it, gives you bread, maybe he's thinking he can mix the sand together and cook it to make a solid stone?

But from there, I'm not sure what would lead him to try doing so under sufficiently high pressure and heat? He needs to get up to at least 1000 atmospheres of pressure and 650 degrees C (for granite).





However, no signs of any civilization doing what you are suggesting until much nearer our own time. Nevertheless we have abundance evidence across all civilization of their using harder stones to bash granite into shape. The AE also tended to use big chunks of granite so super heating a 70 slab would be a monumental problem - pun intended.



One other point comes to me for I have experience working stone - how would you work a block of stone that is at 650C or higher? You'd would need to be armored against any red hot fragments.


It's not super strong evidence, but the earliest description of a steam engine comes from Hero, a Greek who was living in Alexandria in the first century AD.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe he got the idea from something he read about in the local library? I hear they had a really good library in that town.



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 08:31 PM
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not sure either what would of possesed him to think heat but I'd put a couple of $'s on that it had it's origins in the prankster of the clan's party trick of farting on the camp fire .



posted on May, 1 2020 @ 12:28 AM
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Found another interesting clip that seems like it might be relevant.

www.youtube.com...

Again, this is an apparatus the Egyptians would have been able to build if they wanted. Or pretty close.


Although I don't think that igniting a match requires the temperature to be all that high.

en.wikipedia.org...




The trouble is I can't find any clips, or sources describing superheated water being actually applied to granite. I don't know what merely hitting it with 279 degree C water would do.



posted on May, 1 2020 @ 02:09 AM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

Doing some more research on this, it looks like Granite has a melting point of 650 degrees C when exposed to high pressure super heated water.



Granite can easily pound and polish granite, as history has shown repeatedly.

But... in order to have superheated water that cuts things, you first have to have materials (pipes, hoses) that can contain superheated steam and steam under pressure. In order to do that, you have to have fuel that will heat lots of water up to a certain temperature. Solar mirrors are interesting but you have to be able to polish them with very fine diamond grit. In order to have diamond grit, you need to mine diamonds (which aren't found in Egypt and you have to crush them with diamond. You could use crushed sapphires or crushed rubies but you have to be able to turn them into dust to get a polish (it's called "rouge" .. spelled the same as the stuff for your face because it's about that texture) that would get close to the types of mirrors we have in our households.

So you have to show the trade route and evidence that they were bringing in sapphires and rubies and the workshops where they ground them into dust -- which would need diamonds to do that or possibly sapphires and rubies. To make a large mirror with a bright polish almost good enough for a modern solar mirror would take a lot of polishing -- IF you could keep it from warping.

(from Wikipedia


These stone and metal mirrors could be made in very large sizes, but were difficult to polish and get perfectly flat; a process that became more difficult with increased size; so they often produced warped or blurred images. Stone mirrors often had poor reflectivity compared to metals, yet metals scratch or tarnish easily, so they frequently needed polishing. Depending upon the color, both often yielded reflections with poor color rendering.[9] The poor image quality of ancient mirrors explains 1 Corinthians 13's reference to seeing "as in a mirror, darkly."


And copper oxidizes readily, so you have to explain how they could constantly keep the mirrors bright.

By the way, they didn't have bathtubs. Everyone bathed in the river or in the irrigation channels or in private pools/lakes on the estate.

And once you've got the mirror conundrum solved, you need to solve the issue of pressure and mechanics and the technology that led up to it. What did they make hoses from? What did they seal it with that can actually stand steam pressure? What discoveries led up to them learning about steam cutting (since it's not something that you suddenly invent having no experience with steam, hoses, pneumatic pressure, hydraulics, and so forth)? Where are the traces of those machines and discoveries to be found?

Why didn't they continue to use this technology?

Why didn't they develop it further (the next step would be steam engines (ala Hero of Alexandria... who only managed a toy steam engine and that was 2500 years after the pyramids)?

Why didn't they use knowledge of plumbing and pipes (needed for this) to pipe water to their fields and houses instead of carrying water (lots of pictures of this) and using shadoufs?

Why didn't other nations steal the technology from them (since everyone stole and borrowed technology from each other)?

How did they set it up for mass production (since cutting a single block at a time was a lot slower than having a hundred men pounding out the granite with granite pounders)?

Why weren't their mirrors in hot demand all over the Middle East and beyond? A good mirror was very valuable... but Egypt isn't known for its mirrors.

Why didn't they use this technology for producing a lot of heat to learn to make clear glass (something that wasn't done until near Roman times)?

Why didn't they use the steam technology in the mines to extract precious ores much faster?

Why didn't they use this technology to mass produce blocks for Khufu's father (who built 3 pyramids, total volume larger than the Great Pyramid)?

Why didn't they use the technology to seal high pressure seams to make boats with... instead of (quite literally) sewing the wood together?


Technology doesn't exist in a vacuum. In order to have one thing, you have to have the necessary tools and ingredients. So just like in math homework, you have to "show your work", here you are going to have to show how they could have done it and where the evidence is for the earlier technology and why they suddenly abandoned a very successful technology in a period when kings were doing a lot of public projects and the empire was stable and peaceful and would be stable and peaceful for several hundred years afterwards.



posted on May, 1 2020 @ 10:17 AM
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I recently read the history of how the modern steam engine was finally made practical. Keeping steam under pressure is simply no easy task and to get them to work was one of finding practical materials that would not fail under heat and pressure. They were much aided in this by the technology to make cannons and fire arms - obvious an experience the AE didn't. The AE could possibility have done it but it would have been a great challenge and as you noted if they did they lost the ability and it had left behind no practical useful results.

An aside Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ma'ruf ash-Shami al-Asadi created one of the first useful steam engines in the 16th century

Hill, Donald R. (1978). "Review of Taqī-al-Dīn and Arabic Mechanical Engineering. With the Sublime Methods of Spiritual Machines. An Arabic Manuscript of the Sixteenth Century



posted on May, 3 2020 @ 11:53 PM
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originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

Doing some more research on this, it looks like Granite has a melting point of 650 degrees C when exposed to high pressure super heated water.



Granite can easily pound and polish granite, as history has shown repeatedly.

But... in order to have superheated water that cuts things, you first have to have materials (pipes, hoses) that can contain superheated steam and steam under pressure.


The video in the post just prior to yours kind of shows how it would be done.

A long length of copper tubing coiled around in circles gives you a way of containing a fairly large amount of steam at high fairly pressure. If you need more pressure, just make the copper thicker.

Coiling it allows you to apply heat at one location, but have it affect a lot of steam at once.



In order to do that, you have to have fuel that will heat lots of water up to a certain temperature.


They wouldn't have been able to melt copper if they weren't able to make fires that are sufficiently hot for this application as well.




Solar mirrors are interesting but you have to be able to polish them with very fine diamond grit. In order to have diamond grit, you need to mine diamonds (which aren't found in Egypt and you have to crush them with diamond. You could use crushed sapphires or crushed rubies but you have to be able to turn them into dust to get a polish (it's called "rouge" .. spelled the same as the stuff for your face because it's about that texture) that would get close to the types of mirrors we have in our households.

So you have to show the trade route and evidence that they were bringing in sapphires and rubies and the workshops where they ground them into dust -- which would need diamonds to do that or possibly sapphires and rubies. To make a large mirror with a bright polish almost good enough for a modern solar mirror would take a lot of polishing -- IF you could keep it from warping.


I don't think they had very good optical mirrors. But they also didn't need to.

If they were heating water directly using solar microwaves, then microwaves are the frequency they're after, and those have a wavelength close to 10 centimeters. So not precise enough to be thrown off by small imperfections.

ehs.lbl.gov...


If they were focusing visible light onto copper tubing (which means microwave frequencies won't penetrate the copper and so aren't being used), then I don't know.

But the fuzziness of the image isn't important. All that matters is how wide of an area of mirroring is getting reflected onto how small an area of heating. If you can make most of the light hit the target rather than being scattered too wide to hit it, you'll get heat.




(from Wikipedia


These stone and metal mirrors could be made in very large sizes, but were difficult to polish and get perfectly flat; a process that became more difficult with increased size; so they often produced warped or blurred images. Stone mirrors often had poor reflectivity compared to metals, yet metals scratch or tarnish easily, so they frequently needed polishing. Depending upon the color, both often yielded reflections with poor color rendering.[9] The poor image quality of ancient mirrors explains 1 Corinthians 13's reference to seeing "as in a mirror, darkly."



A solar mirror would probably look similar to this guy's device.

en.wikipedia.org...






And copper oxidizes readily, so you have to explain how they could constantly keep the mirrors bright.

By the way, they didn't have bathtubs. Everyone bathed in the river or in the irrigation channels or in private pools/lakes on the estate.

And once you've got the mirror conundrum solved, you need to solve the issue of pressure and mechanics and the technology that led up to it. What did they make hoses from? What did they seal it with that can actually stand steam pressure? What discoveries led up to them learning about steam cutting (since it's not something that you suddenly invent having no experience with steam, hoses, pneumatic pressure, hydraulics, and so forth)? Where are the traces of those machines and discoveries to be found?


They probably didn't use steam cutting. They probably just poured super heated water onto the granite, or exposed it to superheated steam to weaken it.

Then did the actual cutting with copper saws.


But you see how weakening it first would enable a copper saw to be able to cut it?


That would then, explain all the stones that have been found with marks that look like saw cuts.




Why didn't they continue to use this technology?


Maybe weakening stone is the only application they ever found for it?



Why didn't they develop it further (the next step would be steam engines (ala Hero of Alexandria... who only managed a toy steam engine and that was 2500 years after the pyramids)?


Maybe for the same reason as why Hero of Alexandria never took it any further?



How did they set it up for mass production (since cutting a single block at a time was a lot slower than having a hundred men pounding out the granite with granite pounders)?


Who says they didn't?

They could have built several apparatuses, and had one for each team of stone cutters that was cutting with those copper saws.



Why weren't their mirrors in hot demand all over the Middle East and beyond? A good mirror was very valuable... but Egypt isn't known for its mirrors.


Because they didn't have good optical quality.




Why didn't they use this technology for producing a lot of heat to learn to make clear glass (something that wasn't done until near Roman times)?


Because the temperature to melt glass is actually higher than the temperature to melt copper (and much higher than 650 degrees C to super heat steam.)

hypertextbook.com...




Why didn't they use the steam technology in the mines to extract precious ores much faster?

Why didn't they use this technology to mass produce blocks for Khufu's father (who built 3 pyramids, total volume larger than the Great Pyramid)?

Why didn't they use the technology to seal high pressure seams to make boats with... instead of (quite literally) sewing the wood together?


Technology doesn't exist in a vacuum. In order to have one thing, you have to have the necessary tools and ingredients. So just like in math homework, you have to "show your work", here you are going to have to show how they could have done it and where the evidence is for the earlier technology and why they suddenly abandoned a very successful technology in a period when kings were doing a lot of public projects and the empire was stable and peaceful and would be stable and peaceful for several hundred years afterwards.


Knowing one technology doesn't automatically mean you know every related technology, nor that you are aware of all of its possible applications.



posted on May, 4 2020 @ 12:23 AM
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It's these kinds of cuts that keep getting found. And they make you wonder what kind of saw they were using.

www.theglobaleducationproject.org...


It's very hard to get cuts like that using lapidary methods. (And also if they were using an abrasive hard enough to cut granite, then we should expect to find some residue in the cuts.)



But if they could weaken the stone first, then ordinary copper saws would be sufficient.



posted on May, 4 2020 @ 02:41 AM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
They wouldn't have been able to melt copper if they weren't able to make fires that are sufficiently hot for this application as well.

You can melt copper with a charcoal fire... but note that the Egyptians didn't really have a lot of copper and bronze tools until late Bronze Age (they were the last ones to learn how to forge iron, which takes even hotter temperatures.) And while that might have been sufficient for superheated steam (if they could dry it enough), we don't see any evidence anywhere of other things.

Like big copper vats or strong boilers of any sort (unlike, say, the Israelites a thousand years later who had large metal vats (according to the Bible).



I don't think they had very good optical mirrors. But they also didn't need to.

If they were heating water directly using solar microwaves, then microwaves are the frequency they're after, and those have a wavelength close to 10 centimeters. So not precise enough to be thrown off by small imperfections.

ehs.lbl.gov...

If they were focusing visible light onto copper tubing (which means microwave frequencies won't penetrate the copper and so aren't being used), then I don't know.

But the fuzziness of the image isn't important. All that matters is how wide of an area of mirroring is getting reflected onto how small an area of heating. If you can make most of the light hit the target rather than being scattered too wide to hit it, you'll get heat.


The sharpness and smoothness of the surface is VERY important. You can check for yourself. Stand up a piece of well polished wood and use it as a "mirror" and then stand a real mirror up. Now, try to focus each of those on a spot. You'll find that things other than mirrors don't reflect heat energy well (unless they're extremely large (like a big paved road.)

A bad copper mirror will have enough roughness that light can't be focused.




A solar mirror would probably look similar to this guy's device.

en.wikipedia.org...


Undoubtedly. But the Egyptians couldn't make clear glass (the Romans invented that very valuable thing) and it required high gloss mirrors (covered in glass, by the way.)


They probably didn't use steam cutting. They probably just poured super heated water onto the granite, or exposed it to superheated steam to weaken it.


How would that work (how could they get superheated water if they couldn't make pressurized containers?) - and why pour "superheated water" when you could just build a charcoal fire there and get it to 1200 degrees with no fuss or muss? And how would heat weaken granite? (the heat you referenced on flint was used to make it shatter along certain lines, but for that you need to have a uniform crystalline structure with no inclusions (so no grains of feldspar, etc).


But you see how weakening it first would enable a copper saw to be able to cut it?


Doesn't seem to be something they used. A copper saw with sand grit is reasonably efficient and doesn't require a lot of "wait until this rock heats up enough" strategies. I can't find any examples of other old technology (other than for flint knapping) where they heat the rock in order to shape it or cut it.




Why didn't they continue to use this technology?


Maybe weakening stone is the only application they ever found for it?

That was my question... why didn't they use it to cut other stone? Why wasn't in all the stone quarries and mines if it was so effective?




Why didn't they develop it further (the next step would be steam engines (ala Hero of Alexandria... who only managed a toy steam engine and that was 2500 years after the pyramids)?


Maybe for the same reason as why Hero of Alexandria never took it any further?

He was just one person. They had 2,000 years and millions of people and all they could do (after presumably using it for rock cutting and all) was not rock cutting or tunneling or power... but to power a small device the size of a laptop?

They would have to be terribly stupid if an important piece of technology that they'd used for over 2,000 years (time of Hero) was so bad that nobody else used it and that in the end all they could do was wait for a genius to make a toy of it... and nothing else?




How did they set it up for mass production (since cutting a single block at a time was a lot slower than having a hundred men pounding out the granite with granite pounders)?


Who says they didn't?

They could have built several apparatuses, and had one for each team of stone cutters that was cutting with those copper saws.

Since metal is durable and they do have images of other processors, where are the fine and strong copper tubes that would be needed? Where's the well polished mirrors? And where are the titles for these specialized craftsmen? Where are the workshops?





Why weren't their mirrors in hot demand all over the Middle East and beyond? A good mirror was very valuable... but Egypt isn't known for its mirrors.


Because they didn't have good optical quality.

Yes. They didn't have any mirrors good enough to make a solar reflector with. That was my point.





Why didn't they use this technology for producing a lot of heat to learn to make clear glass (something that wasn't done until near Roman times)?


Because the temperature to melt glass is actually higher than the temperature to melt copper (and much higher than 650 degrees C to super heat steam.)[/uote]
But they'd have needed clear glass to make the lenses to focus the light.

You have to explain all that and show that they could do these things and explain which people made them and what artifacts in museums might be mislabeled and are actually from this solar mirror or steam granite cutter.



posted on May, 4 2020 @ 02:45 AM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
It's these kinds of cuts that keep getting found. And they make you wonder what kind of saw they were using.

www.theglobaleducationproject.org...


Copper saw.

With rock weights. Like this: www.oocities.org...




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