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Safety or Rights

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posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 10:51 AM
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Greetings ATS,

After reading the comments on a Local News story from my home town, I thought I'd make a thread discussing peoples reaction to it.

Our City of Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario is a twin city with Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

Here's the Story: Link to SooToday


"We're no longer allowed to gather for religious purposes. If there are more than five people they'll fine you. Same for protests. If there are more than five people, they'll fine you."


Please keep in mind, we have the Right to Protest and Assemble just like most Free Nations...but unfortunately everyone here is completely bought in to the BS that MSM, CDC, WHO, etc have passed off as responsible measures...

The comments for the story are disgusting...

What do you guys think?

Safety then Rights? or Rights, Period.

I say Rights, then Safety within those Rights...




Stay Safe



*posted in MP for those who want to "vigorously discuss"


+6 more 
posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 10:59 AM
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Rights first and foremost. Your safety is worthless without rights to enjoy that safety under.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:01 AM
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posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:01 AM
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Give me liberty or give me covid

Captivity is worse than death


+1 more 
posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:05 AM
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Rights dont end where fears begin.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: MykeNukem

Rights. Those who prefer to be safe have the option to stay away and/or take necessary precautions to avoid risks. I stand in crowds in the grocery store and I don't wear gloves or a mask. Furthermore, we've been exposed to the coronavirus for more than just a couple of months and I think millions already survived it with no medicine.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: MykeNukem

I can't see the comments so I can't comment on them. I personally think this whole thing is total BS cooked up to spin the way the world works in a different way. And I doubt it will be for the best. Time will tell.

Me, I go where I please and do what I want now. There have been .0000625 people per the population of my county killed by Covid19 since they started keeping track. So a total of 31 people since the beginning of Feb. That means that about 10 people a month if averaged. I was looking for average death stats, but I couldn't find any so I checked out some morgue announcements. It seems that far more people die in general here in a month that Covid 19 could ever have hoped to kill. I know, maybe without all this social distancing it would have been worse, but I going over everything I can find statistically, it seems this was a real flop of a virus and I don't think shutting the entire world down for this long was a good response to it and will cause MUCH more damage to humanity that the virus itself ever would have or can.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: MykeNukem

If it's in the workplace or on private property, safety should always trump rights.

I've seen a lot of guys try to fight health and safety in my industry, one guy almost made it to the top courts, but you'll always lose.

Public land or what ever, I think rights should trump safety, unless it's a direct violation of the criminal code. But then, of course we can go down many paths with that one. Do states of emergency cancel out rights?

I guess if people were really worried they can stay in. And stay where they feel safe.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:57 AM
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There are a number of reasons why 'freedoms' and 'liberties' must always be the most important mainstay for any society, and why 'rights' to lawfully protect those freedoms and liberties must always be watched for and constantly re-strengthened through education, debate, and argument.

One of the main reasons is to remember and honour those that not only won future generations their freedoms and liberties, but those who fought to maintain them, and continue to do so today. We owe it to them and their memory to show the same level of courage and resolve and uncompromising resistance to any dilution of them for whatever reason, for whatever threat, no matter how the world changes.

If you give up freedom and liberty for security, you are living in fear and sucking at the teat of government. Countries have militaries not for conquest, but for the defence of a nation's hard-won freedoms and liberties, and have enshrined them in lawful rights so that the nation can continue to strive for an all-inclusive society. Freedoms and liberties are not just conditions a nation makes for itself, they are the foundations of the expression of that country's culture.

Governments have no business interfering with a nation's self-set freedoms and liberties. Convenience of protections should never be allowed to lower the standard of freedom or liberty a nation has set itself. No 'free' nation would ever allow itself to be forced to bend the knee before any government, it would rather die than be enslaved by the conveniences of securities and protections said to be put in place for the nation's benefit. Such conveniences are lies and deceptions by entities carrying and serving their own interests.

The maintaining of freedom and liberty is the purpose for convening a nation, and no bank, no business, no government should ever be allowed to usurp it.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: MykeNukem

If you allow the premise that government can allow you your rights, then government can also take them.

The whole idea behind rights is that they're yours regardless of what any agency of humankind may prefer to believe because you exist here. They cannot be taken from you for any reason; you can only be oppressed by others.

So this idea that you cannot gather to worship religiously or that you cannot gather to protest your treatment at the hands of government is purely oppression, and anyone who cheers it on is cheering for oppression. It doesn't matter why the oppression is occurring. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:21 PM
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At what point do my rights supersede your safety?

Should I not be able to exercise my rights without regard to any responsibility to the safety of anyone else? After all, if I concede any portion of my rights, my liberty, by accepting that I might have a responsibility (as a fellow member of a society) for the health and safety of anyone else, how can I be assured that they will reciprocate?

And it should be noted that Franklin’s quote, so often referenced by those who place what they interpret as their rights above all others, refers only to “...a little temporary Safety...”.

When facing a contagious disease, for which no vaccination or cure is yet available, and which has proven itself to be potentially lethal, need we be reminded that death is not “temporary”, but could be the price demanded of temporary “liberty”.
edit on 27-4-2020 by Bhadhidar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: MykeNukem

Our rights ARE safety.

Because without rights, we are subject to the abuse of others. Without rights, we cannot say "yes" or "no" to OUR best interests. Without rights, we have nothing. Without rights, we are not safe.

Just look at where we are right now, and how many people have been put in harm's way, how many people are suffering due to the impositions of government that trample our rights, how many people cannot provide for themselves and their families, how many people are DYING at home.

Rights ARE safety.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Bhadhidar

And when you write that, you come strictly from the binary: yes/no, I/O interpretation. What do you think? Do you think that if I don't want to be forcibly kept inside my home, that it means I want to march over to you and rudely cough right in your face because ... rights?

No.

It simply means that I want to be treated like an actual responsible adult.

Give me the truth. Tell me what the numbers are, what the odds are, and let me make my own choices. Don't assume that if you tell me the pot is hot that I'm too dumb to figure out I shouldn't touch it. And don't assume that if there are some folks who are too dumb to make that call, that it's government's place to forcibly restrain everyone to save those few who probably would stick a paperclip in a light socket if you let them.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: MykeNukem

people would be more inclined to believe the headlines that CV19 is real bad if we saw piles of bodies in every town in the world.

we want to believe our governments and media are being straight with us. but realistically most believe we are being played.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: MykeNukem

If it's in the workplace or on private property, safety should always trump rights.

I've seen a lot of guys try to fight health and safety in my industry, one guy almost made it to the top courts, but you'll always lose.

Public land or what ever, I think rights should trump safety, unless it's a direct violation of the criminal code. But then, of course we can go down many paths with that one. Do states of emergency cancel out rights?

I guess if people were really worried they can stay in. And stay where they feel safe.


Your post confuses the hell out of me. Public lands I can actually see the government shutting down and enacting some direct infringements on exercising rights in response to a pandemic or temporary public safety concern while still staying within the confines of Constitutional law. Because of their nature as "public lands" (or facilities) the authorities are responsible for ensuring that they are either equally safe for everyone using them or restricting access until that point is reached. Thus, closing schools, libraries, parks, etc during a demonstrable elevated risk of public safety actually is defensible.

Private property, however, is a totally different animal. Simply put, the government should never be permitted to infringe on freedoms and rights on private property in absence of due process. There has been no due process where COVID restrictions are concerned... it's all been dictatorial horsesnip from mini-fascists serving as governors and mayors swinging their fear inspired newfound powers to and fro. If a church decided to remain open and their congregation made the decision to attend services, that is NONE of the government's business whatsoever. If a family decided to throw a party on their private property and invited friends and family, again, NONE of the government's business.

Give me liberty or give these fascists death.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: MykeNukem

If you allow the premise that government can allow you your rights, then government can also take them.

The whole idea behind rights is that they're yours regardless of what any agency of humankind may prefer to believe because you exist here. They cannot be taken from you for any reason; you can only be oppressed by others.

So this idea that you cannot gather to worship religiously or that you cannot gather to protest your treatment at the hands of government is purely oppression, and anyone who cheers it on is cheering for oppression. It doesn't matter why the oppression is occurring. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions.



Agreed.

I believe that "Rights" are built into our consciousness and autonomy as a person.

Now, I may not have the "power" to exercise all of the Rights I think I have (not legally at least), but, that's between me and the Government.

I'm not talking about made up "Rights" either. Like Lefty rights (right to piss with the opposite sex kinda rights)...




posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:46 PM
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Rights because to be honest with you the politicians and media don't really care about our safety.

They ignore the steep rise in child abuse, for public safety, better to keep kids locked in with their abusers than have 0.01% of the entire population of the US die (which has been the death rate so far)

They ignore the steep rise in spousal abuse, for public safety, better to keep people locked in with their abusers than have a 1% death rate from catching the virus, which is what the latest antibody tests are showing - and the media at least, are lying about what antibody tests mean to boot, to pretend that's how many are currently ill, when it means that's how many caught the virus and recovered, many many with little to no symptoms.

They ignore the people terrorized into staying home and dying of illness that could have been treated, because the media and politicians convinced them they would die of the virus if they set foot in the hospital. Which is why thousands upon thousands of US Doctors and nurses have been laid off as a direct result of media spin and elite politicians reveling in the crises.

They ignore the rise in substance abuse and even joke about needing to drink to get through the day with one's own children, ha ha, that's hilarious politicians and media.

They ignore the fact that in Tennessee last week more people committed suicide from isolation than died of COVID 19.

The politicians are taking advantage of a good crises, remember their motto "never let a good crises go to waste"

The elite political class and their sycophantic media don't really, honestly care about the public safety at all. That is what I see.

So rights first because the elite political class doesn't care one single tiny bit about the human suffering and misery, and the soul sucking life of worthlessness that government imposed isolation heaps on the citizenry.

At first the initial recommendations were good, socially distance, wear masks, good hygiene, etc. But once house arrest with it's accompanying awful horrific human toll began, the elite politicians dug in because control is power and power is addictive. This shows how very little the elite political class really care about "the people" at all.

Right now US citizens have no rights: The right to life is gone, living in isolation is not life, it is not living, it is a zombie like existence of simply breathing. The right to liberty: stripped from US citizens all over the nation by Governors. The right to pursue happiness: stripped from US Citizens who can not do any activity outside of their home that brings them any happiness or joy.

Rights have been stripped from the US population and safety is only for 1% of the nation, while the 99% who won't die are left to suffer in human misery and the elite political class doesn't give a rip.


edit on 4/27/20 by The2Billies because: grammar



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: The2Billies

No, I am afraid you're right. They don't care and never did. This is a run for them to see how much control they can exercise and get away with and then how long they can maintain it.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: MykeNukem

Our rights ARE safety.

Because without rights, we are subject to the abuse of others. Without rights, we cannot say "yes" or "no" to OUR best interests. Without rights, we have nothing. Without rights, we are not safe.

Just look at where we are right now, and how many people have been put in harm's way, how many people are suffering due to the impositions of government that trample our rights, how many people cannot provide for themselves and their families, how many people are DYING at home.

Rights ARE safety.


Yes our Rights protect us from many things..and exercising them does keep us safe, but, sometimes, exercising our Rights may be dangerous and not safe at all...

I understand what you mean, but we have no guarantee of "safety" only a guarantee of "rights", your "right" to be "safe" in your own way...the right to pursue safety (happiness)...be patient with me I'm Canadian...lol

However, someone will flip that and say Safety is a Right.....then they'll try to lock you in your home so THEY stay safe (while they run around town too)...I don't agree with that..




posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: MykeNukem

If it's in the workplace or on private property, safety should always trump rights.

I've seen a lot of guys try to fight health and safety in my industry, one guy almost made it to the top courts, but you'll always lose.

Public land or what ever, I think rights should trump safety, unless it's a direct violation of the criminal code. But then, of course we can go down many paths with that one. Do states of emergency cancel out rights?

I guess if people were really worried they can stay in. And stay where they feel safe.


The reason they fail when they try to fight Health and Safety on Private Property is because it's the Owners Right to make any rules they please.

The complete opposite of what you think...you have it backwards bro...



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