And so it begins...a post coronavirus world

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Klassified

I completely expect we will start to see the narrative being shaped on the term "decentralized."

I believe that true decentralization is the biggest threat to a great many aims and goals, so gotta get folks fighting for/against their version of so-called "decentralization."

I wouldnt even be surprised to see something like Alphabet Inc start calling themselves "decentralized."

When you use the term "decentralization" apart from federal and state governments, what do you mean by it? How does it apply to Alphabet Inc.? Sincere question.

a reply to: Klassified

A truly decentralized system in this context is, essentially, based on individual truly independent nodes that are fully self-sufficient with their own autonomy. Thats actually where its strength resides.

What I see being shaped now is that "decentralized" erroneously means a bunch of dependent nodes. There would be little to no effective means of carrying out something like contact tracing in a true decentralized system. Hell, there wouldnt even be a centralized database.

So, Google and Apple trying to even remotely claim this system is decentralized is laughable. Itll probably work though, given the level of ignorance (not necessarily a bad word!) on things like decentralization and systems analysis.

In this same vein, itd be even easier to market Alphabet Inc as "decentralized" as they are a bunch of seemingly independent companies. But, they arent at all, it all goes back to Alphabet Inc, which is a vastly more complex, centralized corporation than many seem to realize.

They absolutely can not allow true decentralization, because then their influence, power, etc. would dissolve overnight. All my opinion, of course, but if it all goes back to a centralized source.. It aint decentralized. And, it must apply to the entire system in question.

a reply to: TwistedPsycho

That is how a command economy works though, and anyone with half a brain knew it had to come sooner or later. If you kill enough of the capitalist system that it can no longer fund a generous welfare society through taxation, then you have to go the other route which is to compel those who previously did nothing but collect benefits and exist to work in order to collect those benefits and exist. At that point, the gilding comes off, but it's too late, the cage door is closed.

a reply to: Klassified

Just two "for instances:" (because I never actually know if Im elucidating the concepts).

Decentralized Food Production: Each home/individual has their own means to grow their own food. The actual unit is not connected to anything other than itself, and requires no outside or external forces to remain operating once it is deployed.

Decentralized Manufacturing: Each home/individual has their own means of production. It is not connected to the internet, and doesnt even have the means to do so. The person(s) in question could still access say, a website like thingiverse through PC/Phone/etc, but the manufacturing devices are never actually connected to the "Internet of Things" as we know it.

I do actually think some centralized aspects could be complementary, but only within the individual home. And still wouldnt have any requirement, or need, to connect outside to the world at large. Kinda obfuscates something thats a bit novel, but some might actually look into it

Country has to be open by summer for all the anti Trump protest and such. Lots of riots and general mayhem planned. Going to be a long hot summer next up!!


Need something to raise gas prices too they are way too low.

a reply to: Klassified

Effectively "decentralized" means smaller and smaller truly independent and self-sustaining units that can make decisions independent of a single, central authority.

a reply to: Serdgiam

You have to be careful though. Gandhi advocated for something very similar in his vision for India - complete self-sufficiency in every home, and it ended up setting India back decades, but it ended up looking like barely subsistence level living for almost everyone.

You're right in that would be true decentralization, but at the same time, it simply ended up making everyone mere slaves to base survival. At some point, in order to enjoy life and modern convenience, society does have to allow for some specialization and that does include a level of centralization.

a reply to: ketsuko

Oh absolutely..

I dont think we have even had the tools to pull it off until the last 10 years or so, and very importantly, it could be extraordinarily disruptive in terms of everything from economies to general way of life.

Its why Ive felt the need to be extra judicious about just how much I share about my own inventions. Though, one of the core ideas is scalability. Its a bit like giving everyone a swiss army knife, that can scale into a "much bigger swiss army knife" should someone(s) decide they want to pursue it as an actual business, or specialization. So, kinda like a swiss army knife that is scalable, and can modify *itself* in order to do more specific tasks. I know that in such a system, Id absolutely have my own focuses.. And the tools should be designed to facilitate that without the need for external forces.

One of the major hurdles, imo, is accessibility as well. It has to be done in a way that "everyone" can use regardless of knowledge level.

I dunno, starts to veer away from Klassy's OP though, but I think its a good discussion all the same.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Klassified

Effectively "decentralized" means smaller and smaller truly independent and self-sustaining units that can make decisions independent of a single, central authority.

Understood, but I wanted to understand his use and meaning of the word regarding non-governing entities such as corporations and their off-shoots in context.

a reply to: Klassified

If youre interested and are bored enough to read it, I did make this thread. Even just giving a brief overview wasnt so brief (lol), but I did go into some specifics as the thread went on.

Im trying to accomplish a roughly similar thing again, because apparently I like tilting at windmills, with some "self-sufficiency basics" threads. I think Ill need to actually release some software to make the aquaponics more generally accessible. So, need to get all the pieces again and write the code again. Itll take a while.. But some might find it interesting or helpful.

I think its relevance to what a thread like this presents is actually important for where we are going, and different avenues that might be "better." I could, as always, be wrong.

ETA: Interestingly, to me anyway, I look at the founding of the US as a form of decentralization in the context of the time.

a reply to: Klassified

I think we are in a zombie apocalypse. People may not be physically dead, but many are emotionally dead.

originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.
a reply to: Klassified

I think we are in a zombie apocalypse. People may not be physically dead, but many are emotionally dead.

I think it's less about being emotionally dead and more about being spiritually dead. I'm not strictly talking about religiosity either. Part of exploring one's soul is learning who you are, who you really are, and too many people have left that behind as superstitious nonsense. As a result, we don't actually know who we are, only who we're told we should be and what will make as happy (materialism/hedonism). We're effectively being programmed, and yes, that makes us zombies, not fully actualized beings.

a reply to: ketsuko
I have always thought along the lines of a connection with the brain and the heart. Neither one is any good without the other. Spiritually is kind of where I was going with this. But sometimes I have a hard time using the right words. Not good at painting a picture with words.

a reply to: Tarzan the apeman.

It was enough that I could tell sort of what track you were trending down.

a reply to: Klassified

Been saying this since before it started. I told all of my friends and family it was going to happen. I said they are going to lock down our country, our state, and make some moves.

They didn't want to believe me then, but they do now.

Live free. Then question anyone, anybody, any government, any organization, that comes close to that "freedom". Unless you can't "government" yourself! Then you may need "leadership", from someone else, an outside source. Because you can't "lead" yourself.

Such a stupid "ideology". The "world" is as much "yours" as it is, "there's". Die free, or as an idiot. .. In which case, if you got the balls? They'd die first! Fear (being an emotion) is your worst enemy. Battle is just another day of work, to actual "educated" people.

In a nut shell? YOU, define "normal". Grow some balls, learn some simplified version of a standard/standards. Then have the faith and guts to die for "IT"... Life is really easy. The glory of life, is knowing how to die well, and depriving others, of "ruling" over other fellows.

I'd guess if you were trained ("educated") to jump through hoops, like an entertaining (educated) poodle and the "treat" wasn't there? You'd probably worry about a "post" anything.

OP. You're kinda comming across as a li'l, "educated" B*tch. Grow some balls, and then dare "them" to take them from you!

a reply to: Klassified

Scary to think, outside of my faith, you and I are not that far removed in my opinion
Churches, well christians do have a civil responsibility, it’s also a personal decision.

Churches are not defined as buildings but gatherings of people, though fear is a powerful motivator

a reply to: Klassified

There is one big difference though.

Post 9-11 in the first few months you actually could discuss conspiracies about that with conspiracy minded people. A year, maybe 2, later the conspiracy movement had gone full mainstream. Before 9-11 the difference was much clearer between the people and the media.

Which was clear in this present-corona world. I see a lot of people blame the media, but social media and discussing platform did (and still do) keep the fire of fear burning.

The medias are mixed nowadays, wherein circle sourcing happens and the average Co enjoys hyping up the fires as well.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Klassified

Scary to think, outside of my faith, you and I are not that far removed in my opinion
Churches, well christians do have a civil responsibility, it’s also a personal decision.

Churches are not defined as buildings but gatherings of people, though fear is a powerful motivator

Arguing religion and politics til we're red-faced from frustration is part of the enjoyment of a platform like ATS, but when it comes to real world threats against civil liberties guaranteed by the constitution it's time to set aside our differences. The constitution is the only thing standing between us and tyranny. It behooves all of us to protect one anothers rights no matter how vehemently we may disagree otherwise.

a reply to: Klassified

Being able to agree to disagree without coming to rancor is part of what makes us self-realized though. You know who you are and I know who I am. Those two people don't have to be the same, and neither of us feels less because we aren't the same.

People who aren't sure of themselves feel uncomfortable when someone else isn't like them, and if the whole group trends another way, then the holdouts can be swayed easily.