Future politics - can a forum generate true democracy?

IMO there is a great potencial these days for online communities to give birth to a direct democracy like never before.
The time is ripe, the technology is there so what's the problem?
Everything from crowdfunding a candidate to organizing protests, social disobedience on a mass scale.
Did your central bank just give corporations trillions while letting your credit card interrest at 20%?
Aww, they are so powerful and untouchable. What about couple of millions deciding to stop paying any debt on May 1st?
Or opening their businesses at once? Who could resist such a power?
What are your thoughts? Why do people lack the ability to self organize without a personality declaring himself a leader?
Why is it not a thing yet IYO? I understand why it cant work in China but why not in a free country?

You would need like-mindedness an co-operation. This world sadly lacks both to the extreme.

Because a significant portion - if not a majority - don't do online chat, social media or things like that.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

IMO there is a great potencial these days for online communities to give birth to a direct democracy like never before.

Why is it not a thing yet? I understand why it cant work in China but why not in a free country?

Because democracies are not about freedom. They are about majority rule. In a true democracy, 51% of the people take away the rights of the other 49%. The founding fathers called it "mob rule" for a reason. See Tyranny of the majority

This is why our form of government is a Republic. See section 4 of the constitution.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government...

However, we do have certain elements of democracy integrated into to our laws.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

I hope not! Democracies suck.

Now, if we want to talk about taking our Constitutional Republic and absolute inalienable Natural and Constitutional rights and power back, I'm all for that.

I can't think of a better time for it, as literally -- yes, literally! -- every enumerated right except one in the Bill of Rights is currently being violated and trampled. There is no "Pandemic" or "I'm afraid of my shadow" exemption in the Bill of Rights.

Yup. Now's a damn good time...

a reply to: Klassified
That's a good reply, well informed, but it looks to me like this disaster has exposed all the problems and weaknesses of the US governmental system. A and what tis disaster shows is that these problems can't be solved with another election cycle. One of the underlying principles of this system is that the pleasure of the people. The people are not pleased and more elections supporting a broken system are pointless.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

I don't know. A simple majority vote is a disaster waiting to happen.

The idea of Americans voicing their concerns on-line en-mass is great. If those elected representatives actually engaged with the discussion. They don't.

Maybe if Americans had access to their politicians financial records?

a reply to: Klassified

I get it. Long live republic! I dont understand if you are completely happy with a broken, corrupt system or that you dont believe that an organized action on this level can change anything to the better, or if you believe that I'm calling for an online vote of everyone on everything where once majority is reached action is executed. That's not necessary my vision unless we dont stop cutting the world into smaller pieces of independent city states.

I see unused potencial where and when the system fails you. I mentioned choosing or rather generating and crowdfunding representatives.
This alone is a big fix compared to being given to choose from two bad options every 4 years.
And I mentioned civil disobedience, protests, organizing runs on banks etc - this is a powerful and proven tool already utilized by social media but not on a dedicated platform.
So you dont see it happening without breaking the republic? Maybe a republic with a daddy figure isnt the best system. Would it last without being forced upon people? Civil war comes to mind. It was not my intention to take it so far but maybe it's inevitable once you give people real control

So the Kleptacracy isn't working? Taking from the taxpayers and giving it to the Banks and to big to fail corps.

Trickle down economy isn't Democracy or Republicanism, It's crony Fascism imo.

I don't think "we the people" can do a damn thing, We have the best damn government that money can buy!!!

originally posted by: paraphi
Because a significant portion - if not a majority - don't do online chat, social media or things like that.

Well, that is a hard to crack, good point.
Maybe it's not a big deal as long as the actions are libertarian in essence.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Klassified
That's a good reply, well informed, but it looks to me like this disaster has exposed all the problems and weaknesses of the US governmental system. A and what tis disaster shows is that these problems can't be solved with another election cycle. One of the underlying principles of this system is that the pleasure of the people. The people are not pleased and more elections supporting a broken system are pointless.

If you have corrupt people governing, any system of governance will crumble eventually. Our system could use some tweaking, but the system itself is a good one. Ben Franklin's statement to the lady he talked with after the convention has often been quoted here at ATS. "A republic, IF you can keep it." Therein lies the problem. We haven't kept it. We have become lethargic and complacent as a people. We allow ourselves to be knowingly lied to daily. We have allowed ourselves to be divided and conquered. You are correct. More elections aren't going to help unless We The People force congress to address our grievances, but that is unlikely to happen.

originally posted by: PapagiorgioCZ
IMO there is a great potencial these days for online communities to give birth to a direct democracy like never before.

A "direct democracy"? No, just no.

The U.S. founders knew that "mob rule" was to be avoided as an unmitigated historical failure.

Pure democracies trample over minorities and Rights with joyous self-righteousness. There is no minority smaller (or more common) than the individual.

Direct democracy is virtually, "two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner."

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ
See my answer to TonyS...

I applaud your willingness to take action and organize enough people who can agree on enough principles to move forward. It's a noble and lofty goal, but I must admit that at this point in time I question whether or not we are too divided to make a united stand.

I do believe there is immense potential there!

But, absolutely not as a democracy. For reasons that others have already gone into.

However, technology like this could replace politicians without changing the nature of the US system (here in the US, naturally). There would still be concerns about hacking, etc. but.. I think that it might end up being comparable, quite possibly better, than the issues outright corruption yields in current and past politicians.

In other words; Using tech/tools like this, or novel ones based on existing ideas, might be able to cut out the middleman (politicians) from people and decision making. But, not so much as a "democracy."

Much happens due to people interacting in forums, like ATS for example. No single leader, but minds connect in ways that dumbfound traditional analysts.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

I see the usual memes are out in full force.

In reality, where direct democracy is practiced, it is really just a 4th branch of government. What that means is that the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches still have power and the Constitution is still the highest law of the land.

For example, lets say the 4th branch, the people, want to legalize marijuana. They petition and, if they meet the number of signatures needed, the other branches have to vote on it. That actually exists at the state level in some of the states in the US.

Where they are given more power is where they can override congress/parliament and a veto by a president by showing the true will of the people through their votes on a specific item. Where they are checked is by some legislation passed by them being deemed unconstitutional by the judiciary and it is stricken.

So it really isn't mob rule or two wolves and a sheep voting what is for dinner.

ETA: In Colorado it is called a ballot initiative and it is how the legalization of marijuana passed for that state. I think it was similar for the other states where it is now legal.

Democracy is the problem.

See for yourself and look at the definitions, as well as the historical context in which the Founding Father's saw it.

A true democracy is a government in charge of the people, a Republic is the people in charge of the government.


You can keep your so called democracy.

I stand for a Constitutional Republic, which the USofA is and always will be.

a reply to: carewemust

Yes, polls are taken occasionally. Activism is against T&C. We could agree on a person or an idea to be enforced but only a dedicated forum would be a game changer. Otherwise it's destined to be little known one-time movements, quickly kidnapped and derailed.

Let me address the concern about democracy being the worst thing in the world.
I see how it ends up as a caliphate elsewhere but in a modern, western society it's not this bad not to mention you have it anyway. It's not a problem untill you import non-white or I should say 3rd world labor voting 80% left and you slowly become a minority.
Switzerland has kind of happy direct democracy.

If we say democracy isnt working and people shouldnt even have a direct say between elections then we are asking politicians to lie, re-educate us and breed us like sheep with a stick and sugar, to be a ruling class. The majority is doing its thing over the rest anyway. Or worse 1% controls everything.
This imaginary platform doesnt require majority over the rest of the country. In fact the opposite is true. A minority can produce a true representative or a direct action when they have a place to organize.

originally posted by: ADVISOR
A true democracy is a government in charge of the people, a Republic is the people in charge of the government.

What a crock. A true democracy is the people in charge of the people.

A republic is the government in charge of the people after the people vote to have those people rule over them.

Direct democracy within a constitution republic framework is the people having the power to contest the decisions of their government.

a reply to: daskakik

Thanks, yeah, what a cliche.

It's a mental construct we agree on, or rather are born into and respect. A handful of people collecting taxes and feeding their military and police.
Once the agreement is lost yellow vests happen [insert picture of that dude from Batman holding Macron. Yeah, Bane]