Boeing Is Being Paid $84 Million Just For Manuals For New Air Force One Jet

This report has been out for several days and every time I see it I figure others need to know and be disgusted just like me. Sorry but this kind of stuff really gets to me.. Some MIC person will come by and try to justify the 84 million for the manuals and I say go ahead then look in the mirror, be proud, whatever. I guess with the 737Max fascicle every penny they can fleece is fair game..

Yet it's hard to swallow the price tag on the contract Boeing was just awarded by the Air Force for manuals for two new VC-25B Air Force One jets it is currently converting from orphaned 747-8i airframes. That price tag? A cool $84,000,000.

Part of the justification for the costs are all the upgrades and secret stuff that is going into the aircraft which is B.S. IMO
www.thedrive.com...

How do I get a job writing manuals for Boeing.

a reply to: 727Sky

There is a big red button, really big, really red. Marked in large letters "DO NOT PRESS THIS BUTTON".

On pages 15 to 67, are listed many ways to not press the button, but please note that this list is not exhaustive.

You have been warned!

a reply to: 727Sky

I would be upset at a mere $8.4m.

This is where the US does not get any value for its expenditure.

84 million is just stupid.

P

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: 727Sky

I would be upset at a mere $8.4m.

This is where the US does not get any value for its expenditure.

84 million is just stupid.

P

Well at least someone around here agrees. 84000 or 8400 is stupid IMO. No we seem to never get value for our defense money spent. The old thread about 4 washers for a cool million bucks..... and there were people justifying the expenditure !! What a corrupt bunch of idiots producing/managing and those who are willing to pay.

a reply to: 727Sky

hey there's big money in tech manuals, and srt's ( special repair tool's ).

never seen one go for 84 mil though.

Nvm.

originally posted by: underwerks
How do I get a job writing manuals for Boeing.

The real money is in translating it to Chinese. Of course, you'd have to convert Standard to Metric.

Gob: How much for the manuals?

B: Well how about $80,000,000?

Gob: That is too much.

B: Well get them elsewhere.

Gob: We cant

B: Oh sorry I mean $84,000,000


Truth is, it is a lot of money, but....when you are going to rely on these to save lives they got to be right, it doesnt matter if they are for 2 aircraft or 200. The research, reviews and signoff is huge, we had a contractor who designed and build an awesome bit of kit but could not produce the documentation required by the various authorities - we ended up writing it for them.

Also, you dont know what terms the contract was, for example, we quoted the Government $8m or something for a Brownout Capability on the Blackhawks, they wanted liquidated damages worth say $1m and some other penalties worth $1m - ok you can have them, price is now $10 million.

Also, I cant put it in any kind of context, I would suggest that $1m of documentation for a $5m piece of kit wouldnt seem odd in a defence procurement, so 20%. Of course thats the price if you buy 1, 2 or 10.

It depends whats the money for if its for the lifetime of the plane and thus every change no matter how small has to be pushed out it might not seem quite so bad as keeping the planes with all their extras serviced is going to be a very specialised job and you don't want to get even one wire wrong especially if its the presidential big red nuke button.

There will be an entire team dedicated i'd guess working on it and the level of detail would make it a very large technical job so its probably quite easy to see how the numbers go up and then you add on the government multiplier and whammo big price tag.

a reply to: Maxatoria

I guess I am wondering why the manual isn't included in the original purchase price. My vehicle and every large piece of equipment that I have ever been involved with comes with a manual at the time of purchase.

I guess I don't understand why it would need to be re-created as Boeing should have a copy of it already and even if there were changes and schematics needed to be updated I don't see how that would add up to that much because they are not changing the entire manual just the parts being amended. Something stinks on this one.

a reply to: Charliebrowndog

Because no VC-25B manuals exist. The airframe is based on the 747-8, which have manuals, but right now Boeing is gutting the aircraft before cutting them apart and replacing wholesale portions of airframe and systems. Almost every portion of those systems being installed fall under TS/SCI, which means the people writing them need clearances ($3,000 per person on the low end, $15,000+ on the high end). They can only be worked on in secure areas, have to be secured properly since they're classified material. This isn't simply a matter of changing schematics in an existing manual, they're starting from scratch.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I guess my point is and not sure if anyone knows, is this price above and beyond the initial buying price or was this figure just taken out of the line item invoice of the aircraft. If it is above and beyond I guess I am not sure why that wasn't negotiated better. That is a big chunk of money for the documents

a reply to: Charliebrowndog

It was a contract modification. I suspect that there was some aspect of bailout to it, but tech manuals aren't cheap to begin with. Add in the added security involved with both writing and storing them, and you end up with ridiculous costs.

I think you are underestimating what these manuals are; they are not relatable to book you find in the glove box of your car.

The manual you find in the glove box of your car is about the size of one document relating to one subsystem in the air craft (the transponder for example); that same subsystem will have several documents relating to its functionality, software, firmware, BOM, build, and test all ruffly the size of your car manual. Than you have to multiply that sweet of documents by the number of subsystem you have in the air craft and upper level systems.

Than you have to factor in the cost of the personal needed to produce these documents. These are high level system engineers; Software Engineers; Hardware Engineers; Test Engineers; mechanical enginers; flight test pilots; technical writers; program management; configuration management. You would be surprised how many people need to be involved in producing just one document the size of your car manual. They all have decent salaries and benefits.

Than you have to factor in the cost of the intellectual property that goes into these manuals. As a whole these manuals don't tell you how to change a tire; they tell you how to rebuild the air craft from the ground up, rewrite the software and firmware, detailed specifications of even the smallest discrete part and so much more. When the government buys something of this size they want "everything" ...

... and Boeing doesn't own all of that IP. They have to go back to their sub contractors and buy it from them. Even the sub contractors don't own all their portions of the IP; they have to go back to there suppliers and vendors.

... And those suppliers and vendors don't always want to provide the needed information. Eather because they think of it as trade secrets or simply see the government as two small of a customer to jump through all the hopes the government makes its suppliers jump through. That means the sub contractor or Boeing has to reverse engineer the needed information, redesign, or go back to the government for a waver.

Than all the manuals need to be integrated and tested for accuracy. Than they need to be sold off through demonstration to the customer... often times at the customer facility (travel expenses). This integration and testing requires its own set of documentation and configuration.

And that was all costs; Boeing and each sub contractor and each vendor involved are going to add their profit margin. And those compound as you go up the chain; Boeing will put its own profit premium on the profit margin it has to pay to its sub contracts.



That said there is a lot, lot, lot of waist in the system. But unfortunately the low volume that the government buys lends itself to the waist. "we're only doing this once; so lets just get it done, forget about finding ways to be more efficient". The tragedy isn't so much that these manuals cost what they do; its that the next set 5 years from now will cost this much when they don't have to if only they players involved took a long term approach to these things.

And of course there is fraud in the system. I could tell you stories and in the grand scheme of things I'm not very important.