Current coronavirus tally may represent only 6% of total infections

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

What about all of us that lost loved ones from the opioid epidemic? Why didn’t the whole world shut down to help those people or the many lost loved ones from cancer. Shutting down the world for any crisis is just dumb and if you lose a loved ones due to one then it’s unfortunate but also life.

Did you really ask this question?

I mean my son who is 7 could have answered this.

Cancer is not contagious. Being an addict is not contagious and can happen to anyone but it's still not contagious. Covid-19 is HIGHLY contagious.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

As a Canadian. I am doing what I am told by federal, provincial and municipal governments on the advice of "experts" that know only what they know. As a Canadian citizen, I have no ability to question these orders and obviously I am not constitutionally empowered to challenge these orders.

I wonder though, as an American, why you are taking this dry? Why do you bother with your second amendment rights if you dont use them.

Use em or lose em. I dare you.

Stupidest. Post. Ever.

So are you actually saying that in response to a virus, America should violently overthrow our government?

If you would actually like to address the OP, the problem seems to be that there are probably millions and millions of people who have already had and recovered from the virus so the numbers being jammed down our throats every day are quite wrong and the response to the virus is an over-reach.

An over-reach that appears to be mostly done by Democrat-controlled states.

We still have a ballot box to use and we will this November.

To your post...

As a Canadian citizen, I have no ability to question these orders and obviously I am not constitutionally empowered to challenge these orders.

Just... wow.

What color is your collar?

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

What about all of us that lost loved ones from the opioid epidemic? Why didn’t the whole world shut down to help those people or the many lost loved ones from cancer.

Because people aren't foregoing personal responsibility to load a needle with a virus to inject directly in to their blood stream. Cancer is also not contagious.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

With WWI happening, we were far more global than most people realize at that point in time. The US had mobilized large scale troop movements to the European theatre, and that more than anything else aided and abetted the flu in its movements around the country and across the globe.

The thing is that if the premise of this thread is correct, then right now, the virus is being used as an excuse to control people as much as it is a public health measure.

Take DC Mayor Bowser for example. The IHME model predicts the peak for the virus in DC to be late April, but she has announced that she is using a different model that shows late June.

I must be missing something. Weren’t most of the people whose infection will drive the number of hospitalizations in June free of the virus as of yesterday (April 12) when Bowser made her remarks? (And didn’t nearly all of the remainder contract the virus after D.C.’s social distancing and stay-at-home measures went into effect in late March?) If so, then Bowser must be saying that future infections will cause that supposed June peak.

So what model is she looking at? Either she plans to lift the restrictions which causes the peak she's talking about or she plans to keep them in place, but if the restrictions are working, then how can so many people being socially distanced and restricted now suddenly get infected even with measures in place designed to prevent that very thing? All these people would have to either suddenly stop the measures, flout them, or they're saying they're worthless ...

... Mayor Bowser is an idiot OR she simply likes the level of control she has.

This bat flu is just the beginning. The corporate Gods now have a template and a method for control and a little collateral damage is just the cost of doing business.
The government will grovel at their feet, just like now, and the boot lickers will support them. They destroyed capitalism and for what I'd like to know. Apparently the Bill of Rights and the Constitution didn't mean that much to them.

a reply to: billxam

That way more of us have had it, and that the death rate is far lower than is being reported.

originally posted by: billxam
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

So what are you saying? That it's not as bad as we're told or far, far worse?

It has a CFR of about 0.38%... the 2009 Swine Flue had a CFR of about 0.45-0.5%...

We're being played.

This is comparable to the flu.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Do you and yours cower in your homes daily? Risks are everywhere, man. You ever seen how many people die in car accidents? What about slip and falls getting out of a shower or bath be careful out there!

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
It’s all well and good if you or your loved ones are not at high risk. The likelihood being that you will get through okay, no effects, no struggling to breath, no drowning in your own thick mucus.

Unfortunately, not everyone is so fortunate, and if I lose one loved one as a result of government negligence, then that would be unforgivable.

But hey oh, capitalism is worth saving over and beyond any person right?

You can say this about literally ANY illness on the earth. Even the common cold is fatal to people at risk. We don't shut down the world for any of them.

Here is the thing; you're not losing loved ones to the governments negligence; you're actually going to lose more people due to economic repercussions than to covid... If you lose any loved ones it's because they were at risk -- I.E. Their health was already in decline and it's nobodies fault.

This idea that you can save everyone is stupid; you can't -- never could, never will be able to. You shouldn't be shutting down the world and destroying sovereign countries over a common illness that is less than 5% fatal. The economic fall out will kill more than that 5% every time.

There are no magic bullets, this is full on the trolley problem. There is no way to save everyone, so the goal should ALWAYS BE to save MORE people, not destroy more people in hopes of saving the few.

This is idiotic and it's a sign that the people of the world can no longer critically think. If you think destroying more peoples lives to save your loved one who is already at "risk" which means in health decline, than YOU are the problem.

I don't want to see anybody die, but death is a part of life, and losing loved ones is too. Killing two people to save your one already at risk declining health loved one is wrong. It's actually selfish and unforgivable.

Here is the thing; economic deaths don't get tallied. You won't see 200,000 deaths on a board from being broke, but trust me -- they'll happen. People with all kinds of medical ailments die everyday because they cannot afford their treatments. Can't afford the doctors visit. This is legitimately a real problem -- but naw; you'll see another tally to cancer, another tally to bronchitis or pneumonia, you won't see the real reason is that they were too poor to afford the doctor's visit. It's not "capitalism" it's "economics" and no matter what route you choose to go for trading, the end result is the same -- if people have nothing to trade, they die. Defaulting the world and killing the entire middle class is a mistake, and it's a deadlier one than Covid-19. The only people who don't agree are people who know nothing about economics or the repercussions of poverty. I.E. Politicians who have full health care and millions in the bank. They don't live real life.

I used the small town analogy earlier in another thread, and I'll use it again.

Is ruining the economy of a town of 3,300 because 1 person (specifically, 1.18 persons, going off the tally of 118,000 fatalities given earlier today) got sick and died justifiable? Would anyone REALLY trash their own town over that tiny percentage lost?

No, no sane person would. Even if you multiplied deaths ten-fold, no small town person would find that justifiable for a dozen people, either.

It's easier to see how bamboozled we've been if we dial the numbers down to smaller, easier to comprehend numbers. And it makes us look like utter fools.

Some other ideas on how this is being handled.

Everything from models being wrong and perspectives being skewed, to a German expert who thinks we should have been heading for herd immunity as quickly as possible while cordoning off the elderly and at risk, not trying to flatten the curve.

a reply to: ketsuko

In the U.K the government insinuated that herd immunity was the way forward. I agreed with that initially, thinking that this was just some flu type virus and hey, we suffer with this year in year out.

Only then scientists looked at the various models and identified that beyond what the virus actually does to some people, it would swamp our health service and we would not be able to cope. Looking at the measures being carried out now, with temporary hospitals being readied to deal with tens of thousands of cases, then this is only going to get worse.

There is absolutely no way Tories would be closing down the country, building new hospitals if this thing was not serious.

I understand the concerns with the economy, but it is a price we have to pay, remember those old folk who are currently dying disproportionately were the ones that put their lives on the line so that we have the lives we enjoyed until this bastard virus turned up.

originally posted by: olaru12
This bat flu is just the beginning. The corporate Gods now have a template and a method for control and a little collateral damage is just the cost of doing business.
The government will grovel at their feet and the boot lickers will support them. They destroyed capitalism and for what I'd like to know. Apparently the Bill of Rights and the Constitution didn't mean that much to them.

Pretty much killed small middle-class businesses but that's okay it will be easy moving my Mom from her home of 40 years, LOL and depending on the generosity of the mortgage companies we might have to move all of us again soon. A possible scenario for us and probably millions of others will have to move in with a relative that is still working, which means for us taking 11 people and cramming them in one house that's almost paid for. It was going to be difficult anyway but this forced on my family to the brink and then some.

I'm going to have to find work in one of the "essential jobs" LOL which I am sure they are getting slammed with candidates, looked at available jobs and I'm almost sure our best recourse would have to relocate find a cheap place to live and send monies back to the rest of my family till we find our way through this mess.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

As a Canadian. I am doing what I am told by federal, provincial and municipal governments on the advice of "experts" that know only what they know. As a Canadian citizen, I have no ability to question these orders and obviously I am not constitutionally empowered to challenge these orders.

I wonder though, as an American, why you are taking this dry? Why do you bother with your second amendment rights if you dont use them.

Use em or lose em. I dare you.

Stupidest. Post. Ever.

So are you actually saying that in response to a virus, America should violently overthrow our government?

If you would actually like to address the OP, the problem seems to be that there are probably millions and millions of people who have already had and recovered from the virus so the numbers being jammed down our throats every day are quite wrong and the response to the virus is an over-reach.

An over-reach that appears to be mostly done by Democrat-controlled states.

We still have a ballot box to use and we will this November.

To your post...

As a Canadian citizen, I have no ability to question these orders and obviously I am not constitutionally empowered to challenge these orders.

Just... wow.

What color is your collar?

The government just shut down your economy and stole trillions of dollars from you and is dictating what abilities you have to earn a living.

If your constitution doesn't protect you from THAT? Why have it? Throw it out, your just an owned as the rest of us.

I agree with the OP. Numbers are wrong. There are WAY more infected than what is being reported. The actual death rate is probably not even worth mentioning compared to other causes.

So to my point, the OP knows the facts are screwed, you know the facts are screwed and everyone else here but there is nothing you can do about it so, your constitution isnt worth the paper it's written on, IMO.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

But you are one suggesting American citizens take up arms and do what?

Kill and murder? Because that's what guns do in the type of situation you suggested.

War is hell, and if us citizens who are armed make the decision that it is time, it is game over. It is WAR.

Think a bit before you suggest people going to war.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: MALBOSIA

But you are one suggesting American citizens take up arms and do what?

Kill and murder? Because that's what guns do in the type of situation you suggested.

War is hell, and if us citizens who are armed make the decision that it is time, it is game over. It is WAR.

Think a bit before you suggest people going to war.

Why do you have them to begin with?

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: MALBOSIA

But you are one suggesting American citizens take up arms and do what?

Kill and murder? Because that's what guns do in the type of situation you suggested.

War is hell, and if us citizens who are armed make the decision that it is time, it is game over. It is WAR.

Think a bit before you suggest people going to war.

Why do you have them to begin with?

You have already proven you are not looking for a legit debate, by suggesting I and many others are weak for not taking up arms against our government.

END OF DISCUSSION.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

So to my point, the OP knows the facts are screwed, you know the facts are screwed and everyone else here but there is nothing you can do about it so, your constitution isnt worth the paper it's written on, IMO.

Sorry, I just clicked on your reply to see what color your collar is.

To your point, we as citizens are still working within our constitution.

Let's see where we are next January.

And we will go from there.

Don't worry... we won't need any help from Canada so you can still be sheltered in place following orders and not have to worry about helping free people.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: MALBOSIA

But you are one suggesting American citizens take up arms and do what?

Kill and murder? Because that's what guns do in the type of situation you suggested.

War is hell, and if us citizens who are armed make the decision that it is time, it is game over. It is WAR.

Think a bit before you suggest people going to war.

Why do you have them to begin with?

You have already proven you are not looking for a legit debate, by suggesting I and many others are weak for not taking up arms against our government.

END OF DISCUSSION.

I'm just saying your the last generation of Americans that have a constitution to defend. Your election system is being steam-rolled. Do you seriously think Trump has a chance? Hes going to be beat by a guy that drools and is barely coherent.

Its over. I've been on here for more than 17 years off and on and the only thing I learned for certain is that constitutionalists talk a might big game...

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
It’s all well and good if you or your loved ones are not at high risk. The likelihood being that you will get through okay, no effects, no struggling to breath, no drowning in your own thick mucus.

Unfortunately, not everyone is so fortunate, and if I lose one loved one as a result of government negligence, then that would be unforgivable.

But hey oh, capitalism is worth saving over and beyond any person right?

Why is it Government negligence? If I drive in the winter and get hurt when I skid off the road is it Government negligence to have allowed me to drive?

I'm absolutely in the high risk category. H1N1 very nearly killed me a number of years ago. Never once did I even think people should have stayed in their homes the last two months to have saved me.

There's many people who will die because their cancer wasn't caught early during routine check-ups, they became ill due to skipping their medicine because they lost their health insurance during the layoff, or they were afraid to go to the ER for subtle symptoms that could be dangerous like stroke systems.

All of these currently happening and I might do a post with links to the article. They only reason why COVID potential deaths are more important than others is the media is advertising it. Those other people are important too.