We need to stop obsessing about FLYING objects and look DOWNWARDS instead

No links, articles, quotes etc. Just a question of pure logic really...

We're so obsessed with things FLYING in the sky for the past seventy years or so, that we tend to ignore the far more intriguing idea of, for example, "Unidentified Submerged Objects" (USOs), especially since water covers so much of the planet, and much of it a complete mystery to us in any case.

USOs have been discussed on ATS, of course, but it's only once in a blue moon, despite hundreds if not thousands of unusual cases on record. One would have thought that the popular 2004 Nimitz incident (the 'star case' for the controversial To The Stars Academy) would have prompted far more chatter about USOs, especially since Fravor & Co's description of a strange object being sighted underwater easily trumped fuzzy FLIR footage of a 'white blob' in the sky - but said 'blob' has outstripped the interest in the former.

Why? Because it was IN THE BLOODY SKY, I wager.

Odd, isn't it? Furthermore, if an alien intelligence of some kind does exist 'among us' in society - as mysteriously asserted by the likes of Bob Bigelow - why would they spend so much time flying around the sky anyway and risk regular detection? Does that make any sense to Human logic, let alone any alleged Alien intelligence with an agenda to interact with or closely observe us in society?

Is "Flying" is the most overrated aspect within Ufology? Then again, it is engraved within the acronym itself (including "UAP"), so perhaps that is the inherent problem. Furthermore, if the inter-dimensional theories of Jacques Vallee & Co are to be investigated with any real resolve, we really do need to stop wasting time looking UP and instead perceive more closely what is AROUND or BENEATH us, ground or water.

Something to ponder until the current Coronamania withers away.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Odd, isn't it? Furthermore, if an alien intelligence of some kind does exist 'among us' in society - as mysteriously asserted by the likes of Bob Bigelow - why would they spend so much time flying around the sky anyway and risk regular detection? Does that make any sense to Human logic, let alone any alleged Alien intelligence with an agenda to interact with or closely observe us in society?

Do we try to hide ourselves when we step over an anthill?

originally posted by: underwerks

Do we try to hide ourselves when we step over an anthill?

Right, that's a point.

But re: the OP.
It's an interesting thought, I've done some research on USOs a long time ago but also underground possibly alien societies and colonies that could, theoretically, exist. One particular case focused on Mt. Shasta in northern California... en.wikipedia.org...

I've mulled over the idea that entire networks could be moving around under the soil in certain areas, explaining previously unexplained strange sounds coming from below such as bangs and squeals otherwise not associated with seismic activity. Hum reports that sound like electrical transformers buzzing and shrieking. Stuff like that.
Under the ocean would be a great place to "surface" some of their ships...

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Did Favor describe an object? That's not the way I remember the description.


My ISO experience:

I was probably about 10 years old, rowing my little boat around after dark, when suddenly, beneath me, a large and diamond shaped object lit up with a blue glow as my oars touched the water. The object silently shot off into deeper water and disappeared. My heart was racing.

It was an eagle ray, startled by my boat, its motion through the water exciting thousands of bioluminescent plankton.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I would look within.
And I don't mean that to discredit the phenomenon as in "that's just in your head" but most of it, the biggest effect is taking place exactly there.

But in defence of UFOs there have been some really fantastic events that have proven them to be as real as you and me.
The problem is we're not capable to explain it. And what can't be explained must be in the mind of the beholder.
And the funny part is: that might be exactly true.
*execute loop statement (within)


I mean there are possibilities how and where they could hide, additional dimensions, parallel universes, simply too fast, not dense enough, different frequencies....

"The World beyond the Poles" by Frank Stranges is a good one. Talks about a civilization within the earth that was encountered by Admiral Richard Byrd in the 50s i believe. Hard to imagine a decorated Admiral would make up an entire race of ppl he met. That book also claims that there is land beyond the North and South Pole. Intriguing at the least

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I thought about this the other day.

When we look up into the sky, we have a huge horizon and can see until we see something...or nothing.

When we look into water, we see a reflection of the above.. ^^^

Could be 5 feet from a whale, a mermaid or a USO but never know it.

There's also more money to be had up in space.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

There is a French researcher named Jacques Vallee (was who the French scientist Lacombe was based on in close encounters) who worked with Hal Puthoff at Standford that became interested in the phenomena in the 60's after a career in information systems. Vallée is notable for co-developing the first computerized mapping of Mars for NASA and for his work at SRI International in creating ARPANET, a precursor to the modern Internet. By chance, He perceived a link between modern UFO and alien encounters and some data he was familiar with concerning European medieval folklore along with historical accounts from a variety of sources. He pursued it and did what he did best and data-based it all looking to see what the data was saying. There were astounding links between accounts of people and children abducted by fairy folk and what people were putting on the historical record and what modern people were reporting. From correlations between time dilation and other reality-warping effects, how the entities communicated, how they conducted themselves, what was done to the people or children, presence of screen memories, the similarity in modes of transport and types of craft and even some direct parallels between bodily dimensions right down to features like the eyes, other paranormal occurrences in conjunction with abductions, etc. He pursued it and dug deeper and continued to find farther back in history more and more correlation. He began to suspect that the links were more than coincidence and the deeper he investigated the more he began to believe that the phenomena were not just linked by numerous correlations but at least in many of the cases were identical... with one caveat. How humans perceived them appeared to evolve over time and the evidence was showing that it wasn't people's perceptions that were the change, rather, the entities or phenomena were adjusting how we would perceive it based on the overall scientific and belief systems of the people of each era. He even examined more ancient accounts, though sparse in number and with less material to work with he discovered many, if not all of the same correlations in antiquity at a time when the phenomena portrayed itself to humans as gods, elementals, spirits and a host of other phenomena. Vallee has done his homework and applied scientific rigor to uncovering all of this and what he found and presents is beyond compelling. Interestingly, early accounts concerning aliens in the 30s - 50s indicated that they were telling experiencers and those abducted that their origin was from other planets in our own solar system. As the space age began and it became apparent that planets such as Venus and Jupiter were uninhabitable then the origin stories of the entities shifted to coming from planets around distant stars. I encourage you to check it out... you won't be disappointed. Vallee has published quite a few books but the one that comes to mind as being the most relevant is Passport to Magonia.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Perhaps around us all the time.

Makes me recall Vallée's comments about provoking the "projectionist" to reveal himself.

Is one of the keys here discovering "provocations" that reliably cause the interaction to manifest ?

Cheers

a reply to: nerbot

When we look into water, we see a reflection of the above

You've never been on the ocean?

Could be 5 feet from a whale, a mermaid or a USO but never know it.

Only if the water were very, very dirty. I can see the bottom on an average day, at 50 feet. On a good day 100 feet. In the open ocean, even deeper. But you do have to look down.

Remember those isolated tribes on an island off the India coast and deep in the amazon jungle? We the "civilized" don't want to contact them on purpose because we want to study them, I can assure you that those tribe people know someone or something is watching over them, even if we don't contact them directly.

What makes you think that aliens would view us any different than the way we view those isolated tribes?

a reply to: Phage

Of course I've been on and in the sea. It's not crystal clear everywhere like where you live and diving or snorkeling gear isn't habitual for most people to carry around.

You chose to ignore my point about reflections didn't you? Looking directly down reduces them but still has surface reflection to skew our sight and becomes worse with things like refaction.

It's about visible distance and clarity.

Open eyes looking up is as clear as ...air. Open eyes under water is blurry to say the least.

a reply to: nerbot

You chose to ignore my point about reflections didn't you?

No. I addressed it. And one need not look directly down to see beneath the surface.

As I said, unless the water is very, very, (very) dirty, one will indeed see a whale that is "5 feet away." Quite easily.

Open eyes under water is blurry to say the least.

That is why there are face masks. To put some air between your eyes and the water.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: nerbot

No. I addressed it. And one need not look directly down to see beneath the surface.

What if the sun is shining infront of you?

That is why there are face masks. To put some air between your eyes and the water.

Exactly my point about needing something to look into water as opposed to being able to see naturally for great distances through air.

Also, many rivers, lakes, ponds, streams etc etc are not clear water. Or do you know something we don't and USO's could only to be found in oceans?

So....

a reply to: nerbot

Or do you know something we don't and USO's could only to be found in oceans?

Whales are only found in oceans. Not sure about mermaids.

Like I said, very, very (very) dirty water.

very good thread about a not as talked about subject. In the last couple of episodes of the really good show "Contact" this subject matter was talked about. It was also pointed out the US Navy supposedly has listening devices planted all over the place underwater. Russia probably does as well. They interviewed some man formerly from the Russian equivalent to our navy, and he said these uso's are capable of reaching speeds underwater of several hundred knots, which is pretty incredible. Says they and the US Navy have been hearing weird noises coming from down below.

In the search for aliens (living things from anywhere but our planet) I would not look for beings that are living in the sea and are obviously living on this planet.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

In the 60s there was a TV show called "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea" about a high tech, secret submarine that explored the oceans....and a recurring theme was discovering aliens tooling around in undersea crafts. Sort of a Star Trek under the waves. Funny how the entertainment media has never revisited that scenario.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

This reminded me of a story told by my grandfather, bless his soul.

He was maybe ten years old, and despite his mothers disapproval, his father had invited a friend to drink the ol hooch.

So as the night went along, and the booze started to do its magic, the guest started to speak about a curious event, that took place when he was fishing on a lake at night, he said that as it got dark, he looked in the waters and he saw these amazing lights glowing in the depths of the lake, it looked like a city.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

Eventually it turned into a giant seaweed monster grabbing the Seaview and shaking it, giving the cast another opportunity to run back and forth across the set. Every week. I was 10 and I could tell how cheezy it was.

The flying sub was cool though.




But have you so soon forgotten The Abyss?