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Power plants
page: 2share:
originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: scraedtosleep
Yeah, thousands died when those melted down..
You can't get within hundreds of miles of fukoshima...
? Are you saying that the radiation from those plants wasn't/isn't a problem for the surrounding communities?
a reply to: TheRedneck
Aren't our plants very old?
Just learning that a scram system is in place makes me feel better about this in any case.
Aren't our plants very old?
Just learning that a scram system is in place makes me feel better about this in any case.
a reply to: rickymouse
I've been a prepper all my life.
But knowing how many plants we have and not knowing about the safety processes in place made me wonder if in a real shtf scenario if my supplies and knowledge would even matter.
WE are used to sheltering in place and they have been trying to get people to start stocking a month of food and to have bug out bags for five or more years now. People don't listen, they are more interested in power watching game of thrones or other internet shows and playing video games than focusing on a game plan that is necessary.
I've been a prepper all my life.
But knowing how many plants we have and not knowing about the safety processes in place made me wonder if in a real shtf scenario if my supplies and knowledge would even matter.
originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: rickymouse
WE are used to sheltering in place and they have been trying to get people to start stocking a month of food and to have bug out bags for five or more years now. People don't listen, they are more interested in power watching game of thrones or other internet shows and playing video games than focusing on a game plan that is necessary.
I've been a prepper all my life.
But knowing how many plants we have and not knowing about the safety processes in place made me wonder if in a real shtf scenario if my supplies and knowledge would even matter.
We got eighteen inches of heavy wet snow over the last twenty four hours. I plowed at six last night, about four to five inches of snow, and got stuck twice today plowing the twelve to fourteen inches in the drive today. All prepped and probably get a heart attack shoveling out the truck. I gave up on the other end of the driveway, I will have to take the tractor with the six and a half foot wide snowblower on the back. It is hard to blow that heavy wet snow too, It keeps blocking the shute
edit on 13-4-2020 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)
a reply to: scraedtosleep
Some are, but they get de-commissioned after a certain date (sometimes they try to re-qualify them, but that doesn't work very much with nuclear). Once a plant is decommissioned, it is sealed up to prevent radiation leakage from the reactor and all radioactive materials that can be removed are removed. Even if an earthquake demolished the place after that, the amount of leakage would be minimal because there's no fresh fuel on site... just contaminated areas from the years of operation.
All nuclear reactors have had some system to safely shut down; it is inherent in the technology. Fukushima I already described; Chernobyl was also poor design, but the government stepped in and did what they could when it happened, limiting the trouble to a region rather than a planet. Three Mile Island was a sensor malfunction that happened; all reactors of that design since then have backup sensors (the ones I worked at are some of them).
Nuclear power, with the present US regulations in place, is the safest and most ecologically friendly form of power we have. I actually wish they would re-open the plant close to me; I have lobbied for a re-opening several times. Trust me, if I didn't believe in my heart that it was safe, no way would I do that! I can almost see the cooling towers from my house!
TheRedneck
Some are, but they get de-commissioned after a certain date (sometimes they try to re-qualify them, but that doesn't work very much with nuclear). Once a plant is decommissioned, it is sealed up to prevent radiation leakage from the reactor and all radioactive materials that can be removed are removed. Even if an earthquake demolished the place after that, the amount of leakage would be minimal because there's no fresh fuel on site... just contaminated areas from the years of operation.
All nuclear reactors have had some system to safely shut down; it is inherent in the technology. Fukushima I already described; Chernobyl was also poor design, but the government stepped in and did what they could when it happened, limiting the trouble to a region rather than a planet. Three Mile Island was a sensor malfunction that happened; all reactors of that design since then have backup sensors (the ones I worked at are some of them).
Nuclear power, with the present US regulations in place, is the safest and most ecologically friendly form of power we have. I actually wish they would re-open the plant close to me; I have lobbied for a re-opening several times. Trust me, if I didn't believe in my heart that it was safe, no way would I do that! I can almost see the cooling towers from my house!
TheRedneck
a reply to: TheRedneck
This was interesting, thanks! I manufacture fuel rods and have never looked beyond what i personally do in the process! BWR rods haven't been produced in our plant in at least 5yrs. Never knew why. We were just told they don't make money any more.
I can attest NRC people have no sense of humor, and there's ZERO room for error with them. Actually quite thankful for that.
This was interesting, thanks! I manufacture fuel rods and have never looked beyond what i personally do in the process! BWR rods haven't been produced in our plant in at least 5yrs. Never knew why. We were just told they don't make money any more.
I can attest NRC people have no sense of humor, and there's ZERO room for error with them. Actually quite thankful for that.
a reply to: TheRedneck
What I need to do now is research the age and safety checks on the plants near me.
What I need to do now is research the age and safety checks on the plants near me.
a reply to: Hypntick
You should see them after an accident!
At one point, we were testing the main steam line for transfer to Power Production. Now, this is a 72" Schedule 160 steel pipeline that holds the high pressure steam going to the generators. One of the valves was being repaired, and the crew had inserted a spool of schedule 10 (aka very thin-walled) pipe in its place as a placeholder while they worked on the valve. No one in Power Production knew about it because the paperwork got messed up somehow. They hit that line with 120% capacity.
There were two workers in the room at the time. They said they both heard a loud creaking sound and looked around in time to see the spool swell up like a balloon before it exploded. One had serious inner ear injuries. The other guy was on the opposite side of the room and just lost his hearing for a few weeks. Both survived, thankfully, but the blast could be heard across the entire construction site.
As per law, they informed the NRC. That entire steam line was disassembled and reinspected, and I mean every single inch of weld was x-rayed. Several construction foremen were let go (I heard talk of legal charges for neglect, but I don't know if they were ever prosecuted). The entire plant was essentially shut down for several days while the tag-out procedure was checked out by the NRC, to the point they individually visually checked every single item that was tagged out to ensure there were no errors. TVA paid a monstrous fine, and rumor was that they were considering closing the entire construction site down indefinitely.
These boys do not play games!
TheRedneck
You should see them after an accident!
At one point, we were testing the main steam line for transfer to Power Production. Now, this is a 72" Schedule 160 steel pipeline that holds the high pressure steam going to the generators. One of the valves was being repaired, and the crew had inserted a spool of schedule 10 (aka very thin-walled) pipe in its place as a placeholder while they worked on the valve. No one in Power Production knew about it because the paperwork got messed up somehow. They hit that line with 120% capacity.
There were two workers in the room at the time. They said they both heard a loud creaking sound and looked around in time to see the spool swell up like a balloon before it exploded. One had serious inner ear injuries. The other guy was on the opposite side of the room and just lost his hearing for a few weeks. Both survived, thankfully, but the blast could be heard across the entire construction site.
As per law, they informed the NRC. That entire steam line was disassembled and reinspected, and I mean every single inch of weld was x-rayed. Several construction foremen were let go (I heard talk of legal charges for neglect, but I don't know if they were ever prosecuted). The entire plant was essentially shut down for several days while the tag-out procedure was checked out by the NRC, to the point they individually visually checked every single item that was tagged out to ensure there were no errors. TVA paid a monstrous fine, and rumor was that they were considering closing the entire construction site down indefinitely.
These boys do not play games!
TheRedneck
a reply to: scraedtosleep
The NRC website has a list of all commercial nuclear power plants in the US.
TheRedneck
The NRC website has a list of all commercial nuclear power plants in the US.
TheRedneck
a reply to: scraedtosleep
Look at the Map again....you need a Canadian connection…..all Americans need one....anyone on the NA Continent needs a Canadian friend....there is a critical reason there are no Plants in Canada....Canada has been a Global Preserve its entire History....you will need to flee North..hundreds of millions of you will need to.....fortunately even under chaos rules I doubt more than 30 million would be ready or able to make the trek even under mortal threat....throw in a short timeline.
Look at the Map again....you need a Canadian connection…..all Americans need one....anyone on the NA Continent needs a Canadian friend....there is a critical reason there are no Plants in Canada....Canada has been a Global Preserve its entire History....you will need to flee North..hundreds of millions of you will need to.....fortunately even under chaos rules I doubt more than 30 million would be ready or able to make the trek even under mortal threat....throw in a short timeline.
Most of the plants built after about 1975 in the US (and many earlier ones) are built below a dam's spillway, or a river, inlet, etc. In a worst case
scenario, the reaction building is flooded with water than flows through and then out the building.
I used to live near one. IF it was a "The Stand" scenario, it was designed to be river-cooled for 6 months with no human servicing it. Idea was that the people rebuilding society would by that point say, "Gee that big cement hour-glass on the horizon is probably a nuke plant; should we go see if it's okay???"
And that's if ALL the workers died, and ALL the DOE rapid response teams died, and the scram had failed and...
I used to live near one. IF it was a "The Stand" scenario, it was designed to be river-cooled for 6 months with no human servicing it. Idea was that the people rebuilding society would by that point say, "Gee that big cement hour-glass on the horizon is probably a nuke plant; should we go see if it's okay???"
And that's if ALL the workers died, and ALL the DOE rapid response teams died, and the scram had failed and...
a reply to: Graysen
I don't know where that urban myth got started, but it's simply not true. Most reactors are built close to water for cooling, yes, but not to "flood the building."
That would be as bad as simply opening up the reactor to the outside air. It would be a radiation leak of epic proportions, akin to Fukushima. The entire waterway would be poisoned for millions of years, making everything close to it, not just at the reactor but downstream as well, a toxic environment.
The reactor building where the nuclear fission occurs in a PWR plant is sealed behind two containment walls. Primary containment is 8 feet thick and houses the reactor itself along with a water circulating system. Water is pumped from the reaction chamber to a heat exchanger and back. Under normal circumstances, the water will never leave that reaction chamber. In an emergency, the reactor can be cooled by injecting fresh water and releasing radioactive steam (that was the source of the release at Three Mile Island), but that is a last-ditch effort and the NRC will be on-site taking full control of the plant should that happen. That's considered a major accident.
The primary containment wall is sealed. There are lead-lined massive doors that can be opened, but once it is sealed and power is being produced, any attempt to enter that area is instant death. Everything inside is remotely controlled from the control building, and there are backups to everything. Every system, including the backups, is rigorously tested and inspected several times before the reactor building is sealed. Access into the secondary area, defined by a sealed secondary containment wall of 4 feet of concrete, is possible only in full radiation suits for very short exposure times and even that is never expected to be needed. Once the plant is started, no one enters the reactor building. If something goes awry, the control rods are re-inserted, the fuel is removed as soon as possible, and the plant is in quarantine to allow the faster-decaying fission products to decay. Then the reactor can be accessed in full radiation suits.
A second sealed water system takes the heat from that heat exchanger and pumps it to the generators to produce the electricity. That is then channeled through the cooling towers and back to the reactor heat exchanger. This can be vented and replaced easily, although even that will be considered an event. Some small amounts of radiation can leak through the heat exchanger.
Those hourglass shaped buildings do not contain radiation; they are big, water cooled radiators. The shape channels air through them during normal operations to cool the main steam lines returning from the generators (similar to a chimney, with the parabollic shape increasing air flow through the middle like an old carburetor). They can be flooded with water if the heat level gets too high, but they never receive any radiation directly. I've stood under them and looked up... awesome examples of engineering! Massive pipes from the river are there for that express purpose.
When Fukushima melted down, the first indication for me of how bad it was came when they started trying to flood the reactor with ocean water. That is not normal procedure! All it did was make a small difference in cooling (like putting out a forest fire with a garden hose) and release radioactive steam into the atmosphere and radioactive runoff into the groundwater. It was a last-ditch panicked effort to stop what couldn't be stopped. At that point, I knew this was our first true China Syndrome event, because that simply is not supposed to happen, ever. No reactor is intended to ever be flooded with outside water; if it is, it's just an indication we have lost all control.
TheRedneck
I don't know where that urban myth got started, but it's simply not true. Most reactors are built close to water for cooling, yes, but not to "flood the building."
That would be as bad as simply opening up the reactor to the outside air. It would be a radiation leak of epic proportions, akin to Fukushima. The entire waterway would be poisoned for millions of years, making everything close to it, not just at the reactor but downstream as well, a toxic environment.
The reactor building where the nuclear fission occurs in a PWR plant is sealed behind two containment walls. Primary containment is 8 feet thick and houses the reactor itself along with a water circulating system. Water is pumped from the reaction chamber to a heat exchanger and back. Under normal circumstances, the water will never leave that reaction chamber. In an emergency, the reactor can be cooled by injecting fresh water and releasing radioactive steam (that was the source of the release at Three Mile Island), but that is a last-ditch effort and the NRC will be on-site taking full control of the plant should that happen. That's considered a major accident.
The primary containment wall is sealed. There are lead-lined massive doors that can be opened, but once it is sealed and power is being produced, any attempt to enter that area is instant death. Everything inside is remotely controlled from the control building, and there are backups to everything. Every system, including the backups, is rigorously tested and inspected several times before the reactor building is sealed. Access into the secondary area, defined by a sealed secondary containment wall of 4 feet of concrete, is possible only in full radiation suits for very short exposure times and even that is never expected to be needed. Once the plant is started, no one enters the reactor building. If something goes awry, the control rods are re-inserted, the fuel is removed as soon as possible, and the plant is in quarantine to allow the faster-decaying fission products to decay. Then the reactor can be accessed in full radiation suits.
A second sealed water system takes the heat from that heat exchanger and pumps it to the generators to produce the electricity. That is then channeled through the cooling towers and back to the reactor heat exchanger. This can be vented and replaced easily, although even that will be considered an event. Some small amounts of radiation can leak through the heat exchanger.
Those hourglass shaped buildings do not contain radiation; they are big, water cooled radiators. The shape channels air through them during normal operations to cool the main steam lines returning from the generators (similar to a chimney, with the parabollic shape increasing air flow through the middle like an old carburetor). They can be flooded with water if the heat level gets too high, but they never receive any radiation directly. I've stood under them and looked up... awesome examples of engineering! Massive pipes from the river are there for that express purpose.
When Fukushima melted down, the first indication for me of how bad it was came when they started trying to flood the reactor with ocean water. That is not normal procedure! All it did was make a small difference in cooling (like putting out a forest fire with a garden hose) and release radioactive steam into the atmosphere and radioactive runoff into the groundwater. It was a last-ditch panicked effort to stop what couldn't be stopped. At that point, I knew this was our first true China Syndrome event, because that simply is not supposed to happen, ever. No reactor is intended to ever be flooded with outside water; if it is, it's just an indication we have lost all control.
TheRedneck
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: one4all
Dude, the last time I was up there, it snowed on me... in MAY!
Thanks but no thanks... I'll take my chances with the radiation...
TheRedneck
Well you aren't the only American Redneck I am expecting and keeping a candle lit for....lol...ever read the book The Stand?....or see the Movie?....well I feel like Mother Abigail right now....lol..lol..lol.
edit on 14-4-2020 by one4all because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: one4all
Dude, the last time I was up there, it snowed on me... in MAY!
Thanks but no thanks... I'll take my chances with the radiation...
TheRedneck
Just think if all the plants met down in the states the rads will drift north and melt all the snow.
Problem solved.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: one4all
You sure you want this all over the place?
We is spay-shull down heres...
TheRedneck
Yup...Yessssireeee…..come on down.....y"all are gonna fit right in.... if you can handle what the Crazy Canucks have got cookin.
www.bing.com... 26sk%3d%26cvid%3d0D7FEAA1EE3F47E980D78C8ED812CED8%26FORM%3dVDVVXX&view=detail&mid=B1AF81A842C3D1412ED1B1AF81A842C3D1412ED1&&FORM=VDRVRV
edit on
14-4-2020 by one4all because: (no reason given)
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