What if.

a reply to: IAMTAT

YOU are saying the government should take responsibility

I never said they should.

I said what if they provided basic food, shelter, clothing , healthcare. And I said what if it worked.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: IAMTAT

I would have to keep working to live my level of comfort even with a ubi.

It's that extra work for more comfort that betters my situation.
The ubi would just take the stress off. Meaning I could be more productive in the long run.

Yeah...but YOU said YOU are responsible for YOUR "stress"!
Why should the government (taxpayers) fix YOUR stress?

a reply to: IAMTAT

Again I never said that they should.


I said what if they did. And it worked.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: IAMTAT

I said what if they did. And it worked.

Again...why SHOULD they (the government) do that for you?
Because it would be nice?

Alaska, which gives an annual dividend to everyone in the state.

How does that get paid?

Could a system based on that model work for the rest of the country?

originally posted by: one4all

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: scraedtosleep

This is why UBI will fail.

I pay Kevin 10 dollars to make my widgets.

Kevin now gets 10 dollars from government.

So now I have to pay Kevin 20 dollars to make my widgets.

The price of widgets increases to cover the new costs to making them.

Government taxes me more to pay for Kevin's 10 dollars also.

So now we have inflation because of all the new money.
The dollar is devalued.
I am taxed more.
And widgets cost twice as much.

We never really needed widgets to begin with....the entire business was a waste of Global resources....hopefully the impacts result in no more widget Factories we do not need ….just like the Cupcake Shops and all the other businesses we do not need.

And folks, this is why socialist / communist nations always have bread lines. Socialism produces bread lines, while capitalism has 20 different types of bread waiting to be bought.

Personally, I think it could work, based on the fact that people without work right now are going absolutely apes# nuts with boredom. Financial unsteadiness aside, a lot of my neighbors unable to work right now are bored out of their skulls. I doubt they'd take UBI as an excuse to sit on their asses all day, because they can't even keep occupied sufficiently as it is right now.

I think if you gave people the option of taking the UBI now or as needed, and directing the rest to a private SSI-like retirement age account, most people would choose the latter.


It's something worth considering, someday. Not today, though, too much federal debt and DC pork running amok to swing it reasonably.

a reply to: IAMTAT

I'm not saying that they should.
But if they wanted to they could try.

I like trying new things. See what works.

Let's say UBI gets passed and everyone starts receiving 2k per month. What's to stop all landlords from making the minimum for craphole houses 2k to rent?

Now a loaf a bread costs $50 because of inflation. This is just the tip of the iceberg

People just want free stuff and it sickens me. You really don't understand how the economy works do you.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The dollar is devalued.
I am taxed more.
And widgets cost twice as much.

....and how exactly is that different from things now? Just saying the current way of doing things isn't benefiting all people in an optimal way. We can do better.


We have to experiment with options to deal with automation of jobs that will be happening.

The Wuhan Virus and our response to it has killed off many jobs and businesses that will never come back. Some businesses are gone forever.

UBI is a concept in the beginnings of it's final form. If we want to make it work in a sustainable way, a path can be found to do so.

Shouldn't every citizen of a Country be free from the fear of not having enough funds for the basics of living in that Country? I'm not saying just everyone sit on their asses and get paid, there would be some form of giving back for the UBI.

UBI needs a lot of fine tuning, but this Pandemic is showing us that Money to pay for giving Dollars to every Adult is doable and not the stumbling block.


People who want more than what the UBI provides will find ways to do so.

This will only work when we have created artificial intelligence and robots that can do all tasks that we do. Until then it's a pipe dream.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Alaska, which gives an annual dividend to everyone in the state.

How does that get paid?

Could a system based on that model work for the rest of the country?

Because of capitalism...

originally posted by: PraetorianAZ
Let's say UBI gets passed and everyone starts receiving 2k per month. What's to stop all landlords from making the minimum for craphole houses 2k to rent?

Now a loaf a bread costs $50 because of inflation. This is just the tip of the iceberg

People just want free stuff and it sickens me. You really don't understand how the economy works do you.

That is exactly what will happen. Then the same people pushing for UBI will complain that the $2k isn't enough to live off...

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: IAMTAT

I'm not saying that they should.
But if they wanted to they could try.

I like trying new things. See what works.

Would you agree to letting any/all taxpayers that want to, legally 'opt out' of paying to alleviating your stress?

Perhaps we could call it something like "charity"...instead of UBI.

a reply to: Edumakated

EXCELLENT comparison!

a reply to: IAMTAT

Would you agree to letting any/all taxpayers that want to, legally 'opt out' of paying to alleviating your stress?

Fine with me.

But those that opt out do it completely. Looks like some are starting to do their own versions of ubi already.
www.awaken.com...

in.opecsummit.org...

a reply to: pavil

In a perfect world, UBI's socialism, hell, even communism are wonderful.

On paper.

In classrooms.

But in the real world we just can't do it.

Our government, all governments are corrupt to one degree or another.

Our constant challenge is always to limit the control and influence any government has on society and minimize its impact.


Providing more control, authority to any corrupt government will just be making a bigger, more controlling corrupt government.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: FauxMulder

So your saying that it's possible to be happy and productive with a system other than fiat money?

Are you saying your UBI wouldn't come from fiat money?

That is a problem but at least we are starting to agree that fiat money needs to be changed.

What do you propose we use instead of fiat money? Go back to the gold standard?

a reply to: MRinder

That would be a start.

What do you think we should try?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk

The motivation would be to get things they want. A ubi would not make you rich. It would only be enough for the basics. Enough food to be healthy, a small shelter, cheap cloths, basic health care.
This would end the homeless problem and take the stress off of people but not much else.

People would work to gain things like personal vehicles, big houses, fast electronics, trips, name brand cloths, sports events, music shows, etc.

Any motivation would be trumped by net pay that is unequal to services rendered. Even now I know many, many people who turn down extra hours because it just throws them into a higher tax bracket which ends up meaning even LESS net pay for working more hours. Were you not offered a basic economics class when you were in school?