A taste of Socialism

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: face23785

Actually, it is neither.

I'm not the only one either.

See the 3rd post above yours.

ETA: It is a fleshed out version of the rhetorical question, "why aren't you doing anything with your guns?" or similar variations.

You say that like no one has seen you trolling around here before.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MRinder

I'd go a step further and say this is an attempt at fascism.

Just looking at congress/local/state governments and how they've performed during this I am given the mental image of several monkeys dry-humping a dead giraffe.


We have states punishing you by presuming guilt.
States arbitrarily banning the sales of guns.
Punishment for exercising the 1st Amendment.

Fascism and socialism are more similar than most people realize. It's like an old video game where you go out one side of the screen and re-enter on the other side. You go far enough left or right on the political spectrum and you just circle back around. There's differences in world view, but how they go about accomplishing their goals is always the same, authoritarianism. The "up" on the political spectrum.

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: MRinder
"It occurred to me that our existence during this wonderful Covid pandemic is like a tiny taste of what our lives world be like under the socialist policies of the Bernie Sanders and AOC's of the world."

Or, it’s what things are actually like under a Donald Trump Presidency.

Crazy idea I know.

Crazy? No. Just typical TDS garbage...

a reply to: face23785

Fascism is the government saying you own it, but only so long as you let us run it.

Socialism is just we (government) own everything and aren't pretending anymore.

originally posted by: ZapBrannigan3030
a reply to: Jamie2018

These arguments are ridiculous.

I hate the trope that "why aren't you doing anything with your guns" over every little thing.

The conundrum is that once that domino is tipped, it's all over. The moment the people of the US flip the switch and use their weapons to overthrow the government. The entire world will burn, It will end up being a point marked in history for the next 1000 years.

Maybe it's not that people won't act, but they take it as the serious action that it is and refrain. The moment the tide turns, it turns forever and will define the future of humanity.

I couldn't have said it better - and I have said something similar more than once.

Bravo.

a reply to: ketsuko

I thought that was communism?

Isn't socialism "the workers own the means of production?"

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Oh, my bad, they still lie to you and tell you it's really yours even though they run it all and tell you what you get from it.

Communism is a lack of all pretense.

Democratic socialism is when they tell you that you voted for all of it, so now you get none of it.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: madmac5150
Avoid it, at all costs.

Even if the cost is a socialist america?

I think the question, "When is enough, enough?", is pretty legit.

Especially when the OP is saying that this is a taste of socialism and in other threads people are saying that this might be a permanent thing.

We simply aren't there yet.

The line I've pretty much drawn is when they come for our guns.

The other thing is - one person standing up and saying enough just results in a news report about some anti-government whack job that got murdered what was coming to him.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Try this... for a starter. I got it here. www.webpages.uidaho.edu...

Socialism
Most generally, socialism refers to state ownership of common property, or state ownership of the means of production. A purely socialist state would be one in which the state owns and operates the means of production. However, nearly all modern capitalist countries combine socialism and capitalism.

The University of Idaho, and any other public school or university, is a “socialist” institutions, and those who attend it or work for it are partaking in socialism, because it is owned and operated by the state of Idaho. The same is true of federal and state highways, federal and state parks, harbors etc.

Communism
Most generally, communism refers to community ownership of property, with the end goal being complete social equality via economic equality. Communism is generally seen by communist countries as an idealized utopian economic and social state that the country as a whole is working toward; that is to say that pure communism is the ideal that the People’s Republic of China is (was?) working toward. Such an ideal often justifies means (such as authoritarianism or totalitariansim) that are not themselves communist ideals.

Fundamentally, communism argues that all labor belongs to the individual laborer; no man can own another man's body, and therefore each man owns his own labor. In this model all "profit" actually belongs in part to the laborer, not, or not just, those who control the means of production, such as the business or factory owner. Profit that is not shared with the laborer, therefore, is considered inherently exploitive.

Fascism
The word descends from the Latin ‘fasces’, the bundle of sticks used by the Romans to symbolize their empire. This should clue you in that Fascism attempts to recapture both the glory and social organization of Rome.

Most generally, “a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.”

Unlike communism, fascism is opposed to state ownership of capital and economic equality is not a principle or goal. During the 1930s and WWII, communism and fascism represented the extreme left and right, respectively, in European politics. Hitler justified both Nazi anti-Semitism and dictatorship largely on the basis of his working to fight-off communism.

So all this talk of people have guns and when they have had enough they are going to overthrow the country. A bunch of jackasses with guns alone are never going to overthrow anything. It would need to be well planned and coordinated. You would have had to already to secure some portion of the media's backing but more importantly you would need the support of a significant portion of the military leadership. You can't just have a bunch of guys run to the White House and the Halls of Congress and gun everybody down and win a coup. The military will just come in and wipe you out, and if you don't have the hearts of the people through media then the rest of the country with guns will come in and kill you. So all you badasses talking about once you have had enough you are going to do something about it are just going to end up dead in 5 minutes if you don't build the connections you need and get control of large parts of the media. So to summarize, you are full of #.

a reply to: tanstaafl
We are not there yet seems to be a convenient excuse.

Seems to me TPTB know how to push just enough to never get you there. Then when a generation who had the line set closer dies out they push to the line set by the next generation.

It is the long game.

a reply to: MRinder

Actually this just shows that you know nothing about socialism and are quite dim

YOU ALREADY LIVE UNDER SOCIALIST POLICIES!

My god, it's like 90% of this country refuses to pick up a book and learn about their own country.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: ketsuko

I thought that was communism?

Isn't socialism "the workers own the means of production?"

It is. The problem is that can't be done in any kind of practical manner without some form of government being involved. How do "the workers" make decisions? Through some kind of body in which votes and other such representations of the will of "the workers" are established and implemented. This is known as government. The people who are actually in the government always wind up with more power than "the workers." Just look at unions. And in socialist (and fascist) systems, the government (a select group of people) acquires way too much power.

This is why people with a grasp of history just scoff at socialism. Sounds good on paper. In the real world, it always ends up one way: authoritarianism. Just like fascism. Hence my earlier post about how in practice they're not that different.

originally posted by: MRinder
So all this talk of people have guns and when they have had enough they are going to overthrow the country. A bunch of jackasses with guns alone are never going to overthrow anything. It would need to be well planned and coordinated. You would have had to already to secure some portion of the media's backing but more importantly you would need the support of a significant portion of the military leadership. You can't just have a bunch of guys run to the White House and the Halls of Congress and gun everybody down and win a coup. The military will just come in and wipe you out, and if you don't have the hearts of the people through media then the rest of the country with guns will come in and kill you. So all you badasses talking about once you have had enough you are going to do something about it are just going to end up dead in 5 minutes if you don't build the connections you need and get control of large parts of the media. So to summarize, you are full of #.

I've got news for you, a large portion of the military leans conservative, loves guns, and supports the Constitution. As you can see from this thread, the "jackasses with guns" aren't going to throw down over any little thing. If things ever get bad enough that the jackasses with guns decide to do something, they'd get the support of a lot of the military.

Signed,
A Veteran

a reply to: face23785

Honest question. If a group of armed patriots rose up, because of the measures currently being enforced, would these conservative leaning military personnel defend the dully elected officials or would they side with the patriots?

What about those who are not conservative leaning?

originally posted by: ziplock9000
a reply to: MRinder

Actually this just shows that you know nothing about socialism and are quite dim

Thank you

originally posted by: madmac5150
Repeat after me: "This will NEVER be a socialist country."

Patriots will never let that happen.

This will NEVER be a socialist country. Because even is a socialist government is voted in, there'll be little puddles of patriotism all over the place. They'd eventually coalesce ... because socialism is utter crap.

Ya hear all this crap about some countries in Europe 'actually' being socialist ... 'and that it works.' My ass!! There's no one in Europe giving up their entire paycheck to live like a peasant.

originally posted by: ZapBrannigan3030
People don't understand what a 2A, civilian, constitutional rights uprising would look like. It's why they don't get why It "hasn't happened already" over some such nonsense.

We are talking the whole shebang, from local right up to federal.

Going into your city, your state and eventually your federal buildings. Executing all elected officials even the clerical staff in said buildings.

Going to the local police, the state police and the national level (guard, military) and giving them an ultimatum of standing with the citizens or against. Killing members of our own community, wives, mothers, fathers, brothers. Reigning hellfire upon the country in a LAST DITCH EFFORT to protect the concepts of the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. It's asinine to think that this isn't a last resort(absolute) step to be taken lightly.

It will end the world as we know it and for many it will rip our souls from our body and throw us into eternal damnation. The only reason to do so would be to give the next generations a "chance" at being free.

In that light, it's not hard to understand while many(albeit willing) wish to avoid it at all costs.

Your clarity of thinking

During this crisis, I see the capitalistic mentality hurting everyone more than helping everyone.

I have enough capital to stock up on all the hand gel, disinfectant and face masks, if my neighbors can't get it, they should've taken care of themselves better.

V.S.

I have more than enough for my needs, my neighbors could use some of this stuff.

It's easier for a camel to pass through a needle, and you can't take your treasures with you.

We don't need the government to make our community work, we just need to reconnect with each other and the land and that is the silver lining of this virus.

This disease is a karma test, will you pass or fail?