US Navy removes Captain Brett Crozier who raised alarm

a reply to: Zaphod58

but you can't honestly think they're going to stop all military activity.

I can only speculate from my "gut", and the letter that I was unfairly privileged to read, and Trumps own words.

"We heard people saying maybe we should not do anything [about the coronavirus]. Ride it like a cowboy. Ride that sucker right through.

If there was credible intel of the severity of this virus coming out of China, early on as we're told, and this Captain was aware of the threat, he might have sent an "SOS" that they were "under attack". Of course, I can only speculate that the Commander in Chief thought "What if we ride this out? Ride it out like a cowboy?" And made the decision to make this ship a floating secret clinical trial? To make those sailors ride it out like cowboys, unwittingly.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Again, and probably again and again and again, the President doesn't deal with individual unit decisions. He deals with large scale decisions, not individual ships and units. Those decisions are left to the Pentagon and JCS. The President sets our military policy, the Pentagon determines how that policy is carried out and who carries it out.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

wrong. He put his entire carrier group at risk by expressing their vulnerabilities. Also, note that not a single sailor, not one, was in need of medical treatment, as they had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. The risk to those who actually caught this bug was less than .001% chance of death. In fact, just as much risk, for that demographic, as dying from the flu.
And before you get all mad, google the stats on this virus and the flu, as it relates to this demo.
This is akin to a company commander complaining to the New York Times that his company was short on ammo on the front lines, while also broadcasting his location. Sure, his complaint may save lives, as more ammo might come sooner, but he put his men at risk in the interim.

a reply to: ThouArtGod

Again, I keep seeing that he leaked that, while even the Navy says they aren't sure who leaked it. And the Navy themselves were the first to report cases on the ship. But in this day and age, "ready, fire, aim" is more important than accuracy.

a reply to: ChayOphan

Ships of this type do NOT move from point A to point B in a straight line. They move like they are being tracked by satellites, often steaming ina different direction for hours on end in order to throw people off their scent/ confuse their intentions. Not to mention flight ops take specific speeds/directions to conduct.

And amongst healthy people, there is simply no reason to deviate from SOPs- this virus isn’t killing young people at a rate that warrants such a response. But media hype sure got to that captain...0

a reply to: Zaphod58

He sent an unclassified email concerning the health and welfare of his crew, and mission capabilities. By sending it unclassified, he allowed for the 30 people on receipt to share it without fear of jail time.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Unlike many things on this site, this one is t political, nor really up for debate. I’m in the army, and I looked at a Major in my office and we both nodded and agreed at the same time as soon as we saw this- dude’s career is over.

Moral Hazards

Unsurprisingly, there is no shortage of opportunists willing to exploit the situation and add a bombastic media sideshow to the growing list of threats facing the crew of the USS Theodore Roosevelt...

Capt. Crozier: The man who risked his career to protect his sailors from coronavirus

Navy Captain Removed From Carrier Tests Positive for Covid-19

Biden says dismissal of aircraft carrier captain is 'close to criminal'

But as crucial as it is to make sure the world knows how outraged people are about the supposedly unjust mistreatment of Captain Crozier, let's try not to overlook the crew themselves, since it's vital to ensure there isn't anyone left among them who isn't already scared stiff...

Aboard the USS Roosevelt, Sailors Braced for the Worst

Because as everyone knows, the most important thing to do in a crisis is panic.

To that noble end comes a rising crescendo of indignant, passionate support for a "true hero" accompanied by vicious condemnation for those allegedly incompetent, corrupt, bumbling fools who are now directly and immediately responsible for fixing this mess, because attacking the people actually doing something is the second most important thing to do in a crisis.

Does anyone honestly think misplaced hero worship, pious blame-casting and pompous political puffery are actually going to help the crew of the Theodore Roosevelt?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Again, and probably again and again and again, the President doesn't deal with individual unit decisions. He deals with large scale decisions, not individual ships and units. Those decisions are left to the Pentagon and JCS. The President sets our military policy, the Pentagon determines how that policy is carried out and who carries it out.

In theory. But Trump is a different kind of president, as we have seen. He knows more than his generals, across the board.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Ok, sure. You go on blaming Trump because it rains tomorrow, while those of us that know the military better than the average person will go on believing in reality.

a reply to: ThouArtGod

Which is nowhere near the same thing as he leaked it deliberately. Any person that got their hands on it could have leaked it. Yes, he was wrong to do it, but let's point the fingers where they belong.

a reply to: ThouArtGod

Of course it was. There was no question about that. But the Navy managed to screw that up too. In 24 hours they went from "he followed the chain of command, and which should preclude any punishment" to "he's fired".

a reply to: Zaphod58

What part of this aren’t you understanding? Sending an UNCLASSIFIED e-mail with this information is MORE than enough to get you removed from the post.

That’s it, finito.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Look- I’ve been in the military for 17+ years. It’s okay that you don’t know enough about our email systems (receipts, etc.), or our classifications, or chain of command, or whatever. Just believe me, I have no reason to lie and I’m sure I will get backed up on this by other members here- dude broke so many rules in this instance, if I were his bosses, I would have lost faith in his ability as well over this issue. In military circles, this is as cut and dried as it gets.

a reply to: ThouArtGod

Let me put this in simple terms for you, since apparently you're not comprehending what I am saying.

They were right to remove him.

He was wrong to send the letter.

Until the Navy completes their investigation, it's wrong to jump to "he leaked it to the media". Unless you're claiming SecNav is lying when he said he didn't know who leaked it.

Matters Of Discretion

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
a reply to: Zaphod58

He sent an unclassified email concerning the health and welfare of his crew, and mission capabilities. By sending it unclassified, he allowed for the 30 people on receipt to share it without fear of jail time.

Failure to properly identify and handle classified information, on the other hand, can most definitely result in jail time, or more specifically in this case, time in the brig or a federal prison.

It seems highly unlikely to me that Captain Crozier's fateful missive didn't contain information that should have been marked and handled as classified.

Granted, I'm not sure about that, but I'm sure the good captain had been provided with explicit and detailed procedures for properly identifying and handling classified information, so if I'm right in my suspicions, ignorance will be no excuse. Not that it would be anyway (18 U.S. Code § 793. Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information).

Either way, it is highly likely that every recipient of that email has already been interviewed under penalty of perjury by federal agents, that all electronic communications related to it have been thoroughly traced and investigated, and that any criminal wrongdoing uncovered will be prosecuted.

And if there is any justice, such prosecution won't be tainted by the undue publicity surrounding this incident.

a reply to: Zaphod58

No need to get testy

How I see it, you’re right that he did not directly release it to the media- but why the email blast from a nipr computer? I just think it rather convenient that the next in line who does not reasonable expect this information to be secret then has the privilege of releasing it to the media with minimal retribution- which is what happened. Call me cynical, but I see a well though out plan here. The worst part is, I’ll bet the commander thought he was doing right by his crew- but there’s an entire carrier group to think of.

this tail - leaves me skeptical of cpt croziers abilities to fight a battle - a real one - where its kill or die

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Let me guess... the "acting" SecNav is lying, right?

"I didn't want to get into a decision where the president would feel that he had to intervene because the Navy couldn't be decisive," Modly told The Post.

"If I were president, and I saw a commanding officer of a ship exercising such poor judgment, I would be asking why the leadership of the Navy wasn't taking action itself," he further explained.

The acting secretary revealed that he "had no discussions with anyone at the White House prior to making the decision," but Modly reportedly told a colleague that Trump "wants him [Crozier] fired," even though he never received a message directly indicating that to be the case.

taskandpurpose.com...

a reply to: ChayOphan
Ever been on a carrier? I spent almost five years in a Carrier Air Wing. If you are running flight ops, you turn into the wind for launch and recovery. The wind direction isn't always in the direction you want to go. You also plan your movement to be in a certain location at a certain time. That's called Planned Intended Movement (PIM). Sometimes that location is governed by the amount of fuel the aircraft carry, the need to stay in International Waters and several other factors. Then there is the need to replenish the escort ships and I can go on and on.

In 1984 I was on the USS Independence in the Indian Ocean. We were on Gonzo Station near the Straights of Hormuz. We ran from there to Singapore in six days and we were an old conventional carrier.

Drifting my a$$.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Modly reportedly told a colleague that Trump "wants him [Crozier] fired," even though he never received a message directly indicating that to be the case.

Seems to me you just made my point.