OMG, So Many Americans Have Died Since WA's First COVID Death!!!

originally posted by: spacedoubt
So the number of US deaths have more than tripled since the opening of the thread. From 5700 over 33 days, to over 18000, eight days later.

Is that good or bad?

I think it’s better than it could have been, sans mitigation.
But that’s something we can’t really know.

It's not good. I think any deaths are not good (aside from the obvious list of individuals whose deaths should be celebrated, terrorists, tyrants, rapists, thieves, Democratic Socialists, etc). We can look at places like Sweden, much of the central part of the US, Mexico, Singapore, etc and notice they aren't seeing rates statistically different than the locations most locked down. The onus of proof is always on the individual(s) making a claim that doing X will result in Y, to date they've done a God awful job of demonstrating we reached Y because of X... but I can prove easily that X caused Z, massive damage to the economy and a general dropping of the pants and crapping onto the Constitution, so there's that.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

It's not good. I think any deaths are not good (aside from the obvious list of individuals whose deaths should be celebrated, terrorists, tyrants, rapists, thieves, Democratic Socialists,

etc). We can look at places like Sweden, much of the central part of the US, Mexico, Singapore, etc and notice they aren't seeing rates statistically different than the locations most locked down. The onus of proof is always on the individual(s) making a claim that doing X will result in Y, to date they've done a God awful job of demonstrating we reached Y because of X... but I can prove easily that X caused Z, massive damage to the economy and a general dropping of the pants and crapping onto the Constitution, so there's that.

Mexico will be interesting to see if Mexico city goes virus nuclear to be like NYC if NYC did nothing. I think in Mexico life is normal, so give it a couple of weeks and lets watch Mexico city.

As far as Sweden goes, they social distance as a norm, so stepping up to really make sure they personally protect the weak, follow proper guidelines etc I see as more cultural for them to do it successfully, and so they wouldn't need to close down to force people to do the same. Also to add the whole country is only 10 million, so lots of breathing room...pardon the pun...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Then it would seem that we probably should have handled this on a case by case basis. Why in the blue hell, for example, is Alaska under the same type of lock down as New York? We're social distancing world champions up here in the best of times, yet here we are, shutdown... rights pissed upon, liberty missing, freedom but a bitter memory because: New York City is a #hole.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

Then it would seem that we probably should have handled this on a case by case basis. Why in the blue hell, for example, is Alaska under the same type of lock down as New York? We're social distancing world champions up here in the best of times, yet here we are, shutdown... rights pissed upon, liberty missing, freedom but a bitter memory because: New York City is a #hole.

It all follows my points on the lesser political risk is to over do it and have low deaths. So many parts of the country should have gone the direction of what Sweden has done and focus lock down in the hot zones while having full over reaching protection of the most vulnerable.

We need to understand we are not truly helping us all here while costing 2.2 trillion to do something that in the end will have us worst off to where we really want to be at in the end. That worst off part is we are preventing herd immunity, which every expert is saying we need to get over this pandemic and to slow or prevent COVID-19 2.0 in Sept.

60% of the healthy population needs to get it, get over it and we can all move on...Need to have pox parties of old....lol How did we know the right path to handle these things 100 years ago, but not today? BTW when they had pox parties they didn't have old grandma sit in there too... just saying.

a reply to: Jay-morris

while it was your usual crap with no evidence at all,

It is evidence. You're saying its not because it doesnt fit your narrative while at the same time you push for human slavery. All in the name of "peace and safety".

To those that reads this post. See the evidence for yourselves. Dont listen to those who do not want you to see it.

On another note, a final warning From George Orwell.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: Jay-morris

while it was your usual crap with no evidence at all,

It is evidence. You're saying its not because it doesnt fit your narrative while at the same time you push for human slavery. All in the name of "peace and safety".

To those that reads this post. See the evidence for yourselves. Dont listen to those who do not want you to see it.

On another note, a final warning From George Orwell.

All it was was mainly clips of people moaning about the lock down. And stupid clips where they repeat and slow down the voice. A trait a lot of these conspiracy videos use! But hey, at least you and people like you are making them a lot of money!

How the hell is that evidence that the virus does not exist? Next you will be saying 5g has to do with the deaths! Surely, bring a conspiracy nut, all it takes is for you to watch video and you are sold!

2000 American people lost their lives to this virus in 24 hours, and people like you still show a complete lack of respect!

You said

To those that reads this post. See the evidence for yourselves. Dont listen to those who do not want you to see it.

Yet I give you a simple question, and have given you plenty of chances to reply, but you cannot. Why? Because it does not fit your beliefs, and you do not have an answer for it!

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: Jay-morris

while it was your usual crap with no evidence at all,

It is evidence. You're saying its not because it doesnt fit your narrative while at the same time you push for human slavery. All in the name of "peace and safety".

To those that reads this post. See the evidence for yourselves. Dont listen to those who do not want you to see it.

Was this another video like the other one you posted in this thread filled with the normal CT lies, half-truths, assumptions and logic jumps or does this one actually have something factual in it?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Barcs

I'm not denying the existence or dangers of COVID. My God, is everything in your world purely black or white, or is this willful ignorance in the fact that yes, it is entirely possible to see this is a dangerous situation but still not dangerous to the point where everything should be shelved, causing far more damage in the process?

100,000 deaths worldwide speaks otherwise. I'm sorry but saving human life is more important than economic damage. The precautions we are taking now are the difference between 100,000 deaths and millions. The economy can recover, those people can't.

Of course it's not black and white, but posts like the OP don't solve anything, if anything you'll convince somebody to not take the threat seriously and increase the rate of the virus spreading.

We should be encouraging people to stay home instead of making fallacious comparisons to things like car accidents, homicides, heart attacks and many other things we can't always prevent. A virus spreading we CAN prevent and we SHOULD prevent. Lower death count than the leading causes of death is not a reason to not take it seriously. That's ridiculous to me.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
Seems certain people are trying to blame corona for the deaths of people when the death was caused by something else entirely.

Well the tricky thing is that many people already had pre-existing conditions, and the virus just made it worse. My sister in law's grandmother had a stomach issue, and contracted the virus and made it worse and she died. The cause of death was the stomach issue, sure, but the virus accelerated it and made it impossible to recover from.

Also if somebody starves to death because they can't work in order to feed themselves, it is still caused by the virus, albeit indirectly. I think we are going to begin to see many deaths like that.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Phage

HIPPA seems to preclude self identified contact tracing, very much so in fact.

This is true. I had somebody test positive in my work place last week and they couldn't tell us who, so I have no idea if I interacted with the person. I feel HIPPA should be waived during a virus pandemic, it makes sense, but people seem to think it's more important to keep it secret, when it reality you should trace your steps back and find everyone you had contact with during that time.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Me take the challenge? You claim the virus is not that bad. Perhaps you should take the challenge I made, you want to claim the virus is not that bad? You need to prove it. Show us on film you, and 59 other naysayers, get infected and then keep on filming yourselves for 3 weeks. You are the one claiming "this virus is not that bad", so prove it.

You don't seem to care if Americans with a weak immune system and other pre-conditions that puts them at a much higher risk of being in critical condition, or even if they die. Is that what Americans did when the third reich was murdering people? Did Americnas just say "f this, I am not fighting for others," or did they put their lives at risk to save others? You want to ignore this virus, and we are at war with this virus. You have seen that the death rate of Americans keeps increasing exponentially, and you still claim "I don't care if those Americans die." You think it's better to just let the virus kill as many Americans as it would... That's showing you don't care for those Americans.

Wow, I actually agree with you! Are we in another dimension?

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Freedom and morality ARE tied together, just not Abrahamic morality. Those versions of morality restrict and repress freedom.

IN the US the CDC estimates for flu deaths are 27-60k a year.
Corona Virus is already more than the lower level estimate of the flu and still 2,000 people a day are dying in the US.
Does anyone still think this virus is only as bad bad as the flu????

originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: burdman30ott6

In the 33 days which have passed since that dark, dark day the United States of American has statistically seen 270,000 American deaths!!!!

McDonald’s sells billions of burgers a year. But pull up and order 50,000 at one time and see how that works.

That’s what we’re dealing with.

50,000 burgers across all the McDonald's ain't so hard. It's like 3 burgers per McDonald's.

Damnit. Now I'm hungry

Maybe a better analogy then:
one person turns up to every single US McDs at 12:00, and asks for 1 burger
one hour later, 2 people turn up at every single McDs and ask for 2 burgers.
one hour later, 4 people turn up... 4 burgers
one hour later... 8 burgers
double every hour
how long before McDs can't cope...? some McDs will cope better than others, some will collapse sooner.
now put in some strategy, so that not everyone is hungry for burger at the same time, reduce the growth of the hunger, let McDs notice the increase, and prepare for the increase, and you'll see vastly more people get fed burgers.

there's a choice here:
leave it to run amok, naturally, and everybody gets it, and thousands? hundreds of thousands? millions? die (we don't know how many would, but it's a high number) - and risk that number overwhelming the health service, and potentially causing enough deaths to cause economic collapse.
or, try to slow down the spread, try to reduce the numbers getting it, try to reduce the numbers dying from Covid, and the numbers of secondary deaths - dying of something treatable & preventable, that they couldn't get treated for because of the lack of capacity because of Covid, and yes, possibly cause an economic slow down, but one that is at least manageable, and potentially, with fewer deaths, can be got back out of.
or somewhere in between? - well with the high rate of infection/contagion - there really is no inbetween - if any people are out spreading it, they might as well all be out spreading it.

either choice - many people die, and the economy collapses. the first choice, where you do nothing and try to ride it out - vastly more people die from Covid, and vastly more people die of secondary causes that would normally be treatable.
the second choice - quarantine/lockdown/social distancing, with fewer dead overall, there are more alive to kickstart the economy again afterwards.

re: birth rate - yes there are still children being born, but it'll be 16 years before they start contributing positively to the economy, so to say that the number of people alive matters, is irrelevant, if the workers are dying, and being replaced with babies who need care until they can contribute.

a reply to: CrastneyJPR

Here's the problem - and for context I am in favour of a shortish lockdown:

1) The poeple who administer and enforce the lockdown are, unfortunately, more likely to be authoritarian little #s (such jobs appeal to those little #s). They take their new found power and abuse the hell out of it.

2) The lockdown is going to last longer than it should because the virus has become a political football. Disingenuous people are pushing all sorts of propaganda.

3) There doesn't seem to be an exit plan. Until a vaccine is found, this thing is going to spread as soon as we are 'unlocked'. A vaccine might be a year away. A year of this and we're in a bigger econominc mess than letting the virus run wild.

a reply to: UKTruth

I feel its rather disingenuous to compare an apparently anomalous coronavirus with the standard seasonal flu.

Clearly the high-danger influenza events are substantially worse, as it stands, when compared in context. I havent done the math, but it might even compare proportionally. Meaning, the typical numbers from coronaviruses vs the numbers from the "bad" ones compared to the typical numbers from influenza viruses vs the "bad" ones.

For whatever reason, many seem to think of "the flu" as just being that thing we get a vaccine for (that has questionable efficacy). Influenza viruses are not to be underestimated, and people should know better.

And since its probably important to state it nowadays, that doesnt mean I think we should do things like shutdown economies globally every flu season either...

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: CrastneyJPR

There doesn't seem to be an exit plan... A year of this and we're in a bigger economic mess than letting the virus run wild.

I haven't commented on Coronamania for quite a while, but I'm glad (well, not "glad" but you know what I mean) that you are now highlighting the issue that was my main concern from the very start of the lockdown.

The cliche that 'the cure is worse than the disease' is sadly coming true, made far worse by government incompetence and a shameful lack of exit plans.

Even Phage's eyebrow must be twitching by now.

I shall henceforth retire to the Coronamania shadows again for a few weeks, and hopefully we'll have some positive news by then.

Just bumping this thread to remind those Americans out protesting for their freedoms... Now is not the time.

60,000 people in USA alone have died of Covid-19 since this thread was written.

And the argument is the economy is more important?

60,000 people dead. Since this thread was written.

...a nation that once had a spine and wouldn't have surrendered our rights and economy for anything, let alone a goddamned virus that produces symptoms identical to the common flu...

That sort of comment scares me.

originally posted by: and14263
That sort of comment scares me.

Good, you should be afraid. While those 60,000 died of COVID, we'd have seen statstically 250,000 American deaths (not including abortions) since April 2nd in the USA in a normal period. Considering cross-over deaths, how manypeople already dying of something else have been reported as being "COVID deaths," and nonsense like car accident victims being credited as COVID deaths in the US, I'd say this was the "no big whoop" I said it was a month ago.

I absolutely am what you should fear... someone who doesn't fear your fear mongering. By far the biggest threat to the New World Order there is: humans who refuse to be played.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
Car accident reported as Covid-19 death?

Do you mean this person here? L ink

Yes, he died of Covid-19 not car crash related injuries.

It's not a game you know. You're not a super hero like your avatar.