OMG, So Many Americans Have Died Since WA's First COVID Death!!!

originally posted by: burdman30ott6 "domestic threat."

The environment under the current situation is indeed a threat.

Citizens United SCOTUS decision ruled that yes, in fact, businesses ARE people in the eyes of the Constitution.

Faulty ruling. I'll take the quote "I'll believe a corporation is a person when the government executes one"

Tyranny of the Majority,

Doesn't apply in this case.
For instance, lets say China invades California and makes a beachhead for attacks (like a virus)
Most would want us to do whatever it takes to remove the threat
Some idiots would no doubt be waving the chinese flag and saying we should do nothing
In this case (completely related), we can safely dismiss those idiots because the government is literally elected to ensure safety in our community with as little trampling of our liberties possible under circumstances
now
you currently can still vote, they haven't suspended this, and if you think the government is overstepping their bounds, then I recommend you vote against people in your state that allowed this to go on.
But for now
your voice demanding we accept illness is ignored in the same way someone cheering on chinese operations on our soil

American who has served and died in the full 244 years since the Revolutionary War

I might have jumped the gun
For the people who died directly protecting American freedoms, we should also include the Union army from the civil war.
The rest were no direct threat to our freedoms...middle east wants the US to stop fiddling with their government and resources
WW2 Axis had no care for the US and Japan attacked us because we blockaded them..they had to do something...ultimately we could have sat that one out
Vietnam..don't get me started
etc etc...again, none of the wars were challenging our freedom experiment over here.

Were the wars right? some, sure...but thats not because they were threatening us...they were messing with our friends for the "good" wars.

every single one of them,

Stop trying to pull emotional bs. Many died for causes that had little to do with keeping America free. Not that they didn't die for a just cause, but lets not blow smoke up each others butts. You think anyone in Vietnam died so that I can go clubbing on the weekend or whatever you deem is a liberty they protected? come on now.

Sorry those foreigners have died, but doesn't equate to a hill of beans in this discussion...

If you can equate our troops dying in foreign lands to protecting us, when it was other nations they were protecting (and corporations), then equally we can use global population as it affecting us also for the current situation.

I'm standing with the expanse of the past, present, and future all laid out before me.

No, you are just standing with your biases and preconceptions banged into you through various routes of programming. I feel the corner I supposedly painted myself in is quite expansive while you appear to be the one trapped in a cage of idealism over logic.

I'm on the side of freedom and inalienable Rights NO MATTER the risk

Take a moment from chest pounding and flag waving and read a bit on what you proclaim you stand for
"In a 1905 Supreme Court case that upheld mandatory smallpox vaccinations, the court observed that “upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.”

This is the same thing...the epidemic is an issue, and government has every right to do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of the greater public.
stick that in your trifold hat.
now, here is a more comprehensive article discussing federal and state rights during a national emergency
Linky

and you've demonstrated that in your mind freedom is negotiable

Must be awkward to be shouting your patriotism without even knowing what rights you and the government have...people really should read the fine print

Its been an enjoyable talk though. and hey, I like this lockdown of sorts perhaps far less than you (I got a pretty wide social life that has been utterly shut down) but it is what it is. Now, if we are still in this 6 months from now, we may have an issue brewing, but this is an emergency.
when the building is on fire, you don't stand at the door and argue your right to stand your ground while nobody else can leave...you get out, toss water on it, then rebuild.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Reject an official SCOTUS ruling that corporations are granted the same rights as people, but compare a goddamned virus to an invading foreign army... yeah, you're certainly showing the type of logic that builds the capital of your opinion in my mind. Not.

Talk to me when you have some reality and perspective in your opinions because currently all I'm seeing if ridiculousness. (And someone who's opinion on the Constitution and freedom will be used against them regularly moving forward. Welcome to discussional disenfranchisement.)

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: SaturnFX

Reject an official SCOTUS ruling that corporations are granted the same rights as people, but compare a goddamned virus to an invading foreign army... yeah, you're certainly showing the type of logic that builds the capital of your opinion in my mind. Not.

Talk to me when you have some reality and perspective in your opinions because currently all I'm seeing if ridiculousness. (And someone who's opinion on the Constitution and freedom will be used against them regularly moving forward. Welcome to discussional disenfranchisement.)

So no thoughts on the legal precedent or articles I sent your way showing how you are dead wrong and states do indeed have this power?

I guess not

Anyhow, Trump is on the same page as me here

a reply to: SaturnFX

Hes as wrong as the masses, then. Sad.

I just saw this.

George Carlin tried to warn us about the Media using Diseases to Create panic and take away freedom years ago


I would say it is scary how right he was.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
I just saw this.

George Carlin tried to warn us about the Media using Diseases to Create panic and take away freedom years ago

I would say it is scary how right he was.

George Carlin said it, so it must be true!

a reply to: Jay-morris

The line has been drawn. Those who stand for freedom are ready for war. So lets get this started shall we? You and your socialist nazis will never take away our freedom no matter how many false flag events you bring. So yes george carlin spoke the truth on his warning.

Because no matter how much people try to explain to you the concept of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" you just dont want to get it because you're brainwashed under MK ultra .

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: Jay-morris

The line has been drawn. Those who stand for freedom are ready for war. So lets get this started shall we? You and your socialist nazis will never take away our freedom no matter how many false flag events you bring. So yes george carlin spoke the truth on his warning.

Because no matter how much people try to explain to you the concept of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" you just dont want to get it because you're brainwashed under MK ultra .

You throw around all these theories as if they are true, yet, you cannot answer simple questions because they do not compute with your wild beliefs.

If the virus is not real, are all the thousands of doctors, nurses And hospital workers all in on this conspiracy?

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Go on then. Do it. Be the first. Stop being a big brave keyboard warrior and put your money where your mouth is.

All these grandiose proclamations, and yet still no militias formed.

a reply to: Mandroid7
Let us know when you find proof.
Second

a reply to: Jay-morris
They could be flu cases and they aren’t the ones doing the actual tests, they are told the tests came back as COVID and freak out ....possible. Or poison or a virus 🦠 in the water system causing mass illnesses. For all we know.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
What you failed to realise is that yes only 10,000 deaths but that was because of lockdown measures. If it was just left to herd immunity you would be looking at millions of deaths. That is why this is such a big deal and why the economy and everyone is on hold.

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: Jay-morris
They could be flu cases and they aren’t the ones doing the actual tests, they are told the tests came back as COVID and freak out ....possible. Or poison or a virus 🦠 in the water system causing mass illnesses. For all we know.

They are not flu cases. That much is pretty obvious.if you look at how it has spreader world wide, then it's obviously not the flu.

Also, with the season so flu, it is not common to have the problems we are seeing on how it effects the lungs ( respiratory tract infections)

We have identified the virus, but testing is not great. When HIV first went into humans, the testing was also not good. Did that mean HIV was not real?

a reply to: Jay-morris

If the virus is not real, are all the thousands of doctors, nurses And hospital workers all in on this conspiracy?

No, not all doctors are in on it, the great majority are simply following orders using an unreliable test given to them by the higher ups.

at 2 minutes into this video below, Doctor Scott Jensen said he was told to write in the death certificate that the death was caused by the virus, (even though the cause of death was something else.)

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: Jay-morris

If the virus is not real, are all the thousands of doctors, nurses And hospital workers all in on this conspiracy?

No, not all doctors are in on it, the great majority are simply following orders using an unreliable test given to them by the higher ups.

at 2 minutes into this video below, Doctor Scott Jensen said he was told to write in the death certificate that the death was caused by the virus, (even though the cause of death was something else.)

I watched 15 mins of that video, and while it was your usual crap with no evidence at all, they are not actually saying the virus does not exist? Obviously you follow these crackpots who make a lot of money from easily led people like you, but you believe, and have said the virus does not exist, but these crackpots are saying it does! So which one is it?

As for the doctor. One doctor out of thousands of doctors around the world does not say much. And even if he is telling the truth, how does that prove the virus does not exist?

You have failed to answer my question time and time again, while posting videos from people who make a lot of money from people like you.

Are you saying all the doctors, nurses And hospital workers are all in on this conspiracy?

The big question is what would have been the numbers if we did nothing at all? I think NYC showed us a glimpse of what happens if you just delay a little, but what if NTC did nothing went about life as normal? Can anyone give me numbers on that?

What would be the numbers if we only asked people to social distance, wash your hands a lot, wear a mask if you are sick and nothing else? They are now talking 60k deaths and that equals a very bad normal flu season and we will be close to that even with our draconian measures we see right now.

We can complain they lied to us etc, but at the end of the day it might just be that these measures were 10 times more effective than what the experts were hoping for. In any case it is nice to say they were wrong and not say they were right, but I'm not sure if their were actually wrong in the first place.

originally posted by: tarifa37
a reply to: burdman30ott6
What you failed to realise is that yes only 10,000 deaths but that was because of lockdown measures. If it was just left to herd immunity you would be looking at millions of deaths. That is why this is such a big deal and why the economy and everyone is on hold.

Like Sweden which did the herd immunity path with very little in the way of lockdown and presently has rates about the same as any country that locked down? You're full of crap do bad your eyes are brown. It's OK, it isn't your crap, it's the crap you've eaten like a pig at a trough that convinced you this NOTHING, this effing influenza by a different name warranted totally screwing ourselves.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Needless to say the lack of spine with this one has served as a real eye opening disappointment. I misjudged you sorely, X.

So the number of US deaths have more than tripled since the opening of the thread. From 5700 over 33 days, to over 18000, eight days later.

Is that good or bad?

I think it’s better than it could have been, sans mitigation.
But that’s something we can’t really know.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

Needless to say the lack of spine with this one has served as a real eye opening disappointment. I misjudged you sorely, X.

And that is where politics picked its ugly head in it all. When we look at the federal level their response was actually good and leveled. The whole shut down thing has basically come from the state level of Governors and Mayors, and what we saw was when one went full draconian others followed not to be "the one" that didn't take the right course. The two risks were to either have less people died in their over the top and not fully needed draconian efforts, or more people died in doing little.... not hard to understand which way they would pick to not risk their political careers even at a 2.2 trillion cost or more.

I agree its an eye opener that maybe is a very expensive lesson, but good one... What if next time its a 30% lethality... I would be glad this one happened first.