You're Essential, get a different job

a reply to: Puppylove

I agree burger flipper should require postdoctoral degrees and be paid $200k. You convinced me.

a reply to: Skeletonized

That's true, of course, but intrinsic motivation is highly overrated in management-by-book-of-the-month-club circles. There are too many externalities pressing on low-income working and middle-class folk to even reach that level of Maslov's hierarchy.

a reply to: Puppylove

What is essential will change depending on the crisis.
Sometimes childcare workers are deemed essential because their parents must work, as in the case of many military personnel during a mass deployment.
Sometimes food or restaurant inspectors are deemed essential such as during natural disasters.
Sometimes HVAC workers are during a heatwave or severe cold episode.
Garbage collectors, tree trimmers, ditch diggers etc...

It is going to change constantly and it doesn't mean your job is worthless during the other times it just means that sometimes you are needed more than others.

The one area I've noticed no one paying much attention to during this pandemic is the hospital environmental teams. Wiping up blood and puke for a living isn't most people's idea of a great job but they are busting their butts during this pandemic and are much needed.

I'm laid off from my usual union gig because of the virus. Thus my GF and I have taken it on ourselves to become volunteer community care givers to the elderly and disabled in our village; now that the county has stopped all services to them. Thank God for the Church pantries for the free food and other essential products like toilet paper to help us deliver the needed items to our valued elders.

It disgusts me to hear comments on ATS like forget the old people, they're just going to die anyway.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's subjective, so let's leave it up to opportunistic manipulative predators to manipulate things for maximum personal profit. That's clearly the fairest solution.

But the pay is objectively based on skill required to do the job. You can take almost anyone off the street and teach them how to work fast food/grocery store. It doesn't matter how important the job is to society when there are millions of people that can and will do the job for fair market value. This is a terrible argument for paying fast food workers as much as doctors and nurses.

Essential does not equal high paid.

Essential does not equal skilled.

It takes almost zero skills or education to run a checkout register or move items from a pallet to a store shelf.

But yes, if you don't have someone doing those two things a store can't function.

a reply to: jjkenobi

If you follow that to it's inevitable conclusion to anyone with half a brain, that means at some level most jobs are vital to society in some degree. This is the reason so many people are pissed by the whole, you don't deserve a living wage, bull#.

If a job is required for society to function, then people must fill it, if people must fill it, then not paying a living wage, or making sure their basic needs are met by society is LUDICROUS.

There's an inbetween from, infinite allowable greed, and everyone makes the same. Yet everyone wants to make it a competition between the two extremes.

Some of the needs that should be met should be basic common sense.

Such as...

Health care: No #ing #, society can't function without healthy people, yet for some reason finding a way to provide it for everyone is up for debate as if not doing so is reasonable, WTF clearly we're all mentally deficient...

a reply to: Puppylove

Essential right now.

In the very near future


domo arigato mr roboto

originally posted by: Identified
a reply to: Puppylove

What is essential will change depending on the crisis.
Sometimes childcare workers are deemed essential because their parents must work, as in the case of many military personnel during a mass deployment.
Sometimes food or restaurant inspectors are deemed essential such as during natural disasters.
Sometimes HVAC workers are during a heatwave or severe cold episode.
Garbage collectors, tree trimmers, ditch diggers etc...

It is going to change constantly and it doesn't mean your job is worthless during the other times it just means that sometimes you are needed more than others.

The one area I've noticed no one paying much attention to during this pandemic is the hospital environmental teams. Wiping up blood and puke for a living isn't most people's idea of a great job but they are busting their butts during this pandemic and are much needed.

Depending on what part of the world you’re in, HVAC workers are very essential. Way too many mold issues in warmer climates to deem them unessential. Plumbing, electricity, HVAC, elevator techs, construction, security, IT, storage tank technicians (large fuel storage for generators), janitorial, etc. These are all 3rd party vendors I still have coming onto my property as they’re needed and I’m doing everything in my power to reduce the amount of traffic we have coming here.
As it is, I’m exposed to anywhere from 5-20 people I do not know every single day. While it’s great to earn a paycheck, my stress level is rising as I’ve encountered some real geniuses this week who have zero idea what the word “distancing” means. And statistically, I’d be fairing quite well if I were infected. It’s just not worth the risk to me.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: jjkenobi

If you follow that to it's inevitable conclusion to anyone with half a brain, that means at some level most jobs are vital to society in some degree. This is the reason so many people are pissed by the whole, you don't deserve a living wage, bull#.

If a job is required for society to function, then people must fill it, if people must fill it, then not paying a living wage, or making sure their basic needs are met by society is LUDICROUS.

There's an inbetween from, infinite allowable greed, and everyone makes the same. Yet everyone wants to make it a competition between the two extremes.

Some of the needs that should be met should be basic common sense.

Such as...

Health care: No #ing #, society can't function without healthy people, yet for some reason finding a way to provide it for everyone is up for debate as if not doing so is reasonable, WTF clearly we're all mentally deficient...

Do you think 20 year old Wendy stocking shelves at Walmart for a summer job should make 50k a year and have all healthcare provided? The 90 year old guy working 20 hours a week as a walmart greeter should make how much?

originally posted by: olaru12
I'm laid off from my usual union gig because of the virus. Thus my GF and I have taken it on ourselves to become volunteer community care givers to the elderly and disabled in our village; now that the county has stopped all services to them. Thank God for the Church pantries for the free food and other essential products like toilet paper to help us deliver the needed items to our valued elders.

It disgusts me to hear comments on ATS like forget the old people, they're just going to die anyway.

You’re actions and good nature will not be forgotten by those who are utilizing it. I know you weren’t posting this for a pat on the back, but good on you. I’ve also been appalled by the people who are saying “They had their time.”.

I also have equal disdain for the wannabe martyrs who are claiming they’ll step up to save the economy for the future. BS. You’ll go out and infect more people who would otherwise survive this and add to the number of hospital beds being taken up when your family eventually drags your martyr a@@ into the ER because they can’t stomach watching you suffer anymore.

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: jjkenobi

If you follow that to it's inevitable conclusion to anyone with half a brain, that means at some level most jobs are vital to society in some degree. This is the reason so many people are pissed by the whole, you don't deserve a living wage, bull#.

If a job is required for society to function, then people must fill it, if people must fill it, then not paying a living wage, or making sure their basic needs are met by society is LUDICROUS.

There's an inbetween from, infinite allowable greed, and everyone makes the same. Yet everyone wants to make it a competition between the two extremes.

Some of the needs that should be met should be basic common sense.

Such as...

Health care: No #ing #, society can't function without healthy people, yet for some reason finding a way to provide it for everyone is up for debate as if not doing so is reasonable, WTF clearly we're all mentally deficient...

Do you think 20 year old Wendy stocking shelves at Walmart for a summer job should make 50k a year and have all healthcare provided? The 90 year old guy working 20 hours a week as a walmart greeter should make how much?

Meh. Money is an arbitrary construct. Humans defined the rules surrounding currency and can change them at anytime they please....and often do. The value of the dollar fluctuates nonstop. If it were up to me, I’d go back to barter system.

a reply to: jjkenobi

Healthcare, yes, absolutely. The 50K, depends on what 50k actually means since things like inflation exist and the current future is uncertain. In some cash denominations in some countries, 50 k is less than one US penny. Is why some parts of society should be determined by mass societal barter and others by individual sale.

Not everything in society needs to be determined with money, some things can just be given in exchange for goods and/or services.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
Delivery drivers, food-preparers and grocery store employees are suddenly very essential. They have always been essential because our society can't run at all -- even when shut down -- without them. If you don't think grocery store clerks deserve more than an entry-level sales and marketing rep, accountant, or software "test" engineer, you don't deserve to eat.

Because that is what it has come down to. Most of the country would starve in their homes without them.

This has always been the world's biggest "duh." It's just super obvious when you are under a stay-at-home order.

Is this a serious post?

Virtually everyone can be grocery store clerk, delivery driver, or food preparer. Whether they are essential now or not means nothing.

The only thing that matters to their wage is if they are easily replaceable by a supply of other's who can do their job and would take their jobs - and they are.

It's simple capitalism - Supply and demand determines price.

a reply to: Puppylove

People who say "you don't deserve a living wage" are just assholes with opinions. There isn't a cabal of people sitting in a smokey backroom somewhere determining what wages will be. Its a market...the wage is what the market says it is, and markets don't care about "deserve", they only care about equilibrium between buyer and seller (in this case, employer and candidate for hire).

Jobs are not like a public work, where its built for the common good of the country. A job arises when someone says to themselves, "Hmm, i'd rather not be doign this work...i wonder how much someone would charge me for it?". It then becomes an agreement between employer and employee, where they work out how much that labor is worth. To the employer, he may feel that its not worth more than, say...$10. Any more than that, and he'll just do it himself. to the employee, they may feel that its worth the same $10, any less and their time is better spent at home.

No where in that relationship does "deserve" come into play. In fact, it could be a violation of the law to worry about what employees deserve when divvying up compensation.

a reply to: Puppylove
The bartender isnt obligated to his boss any more than the hours he schedules. He can make money with his skills in any of the hundreds of thousands of bars in this country. Bigfatfurrutexan doesn't own his employee. The bartender will move on when the monotony of the same job becomes too much.

I'm particularly good at an area of my work that I could specialize in and make 2x what I do now, but it would become a 'gig' job. I get paid on the higher end for what I do now just because of this and for the work that our company sometimes gets because of it. The boss also gives me space to do the job however I think is necessary even though he carries all the liability, and that's a HUGE benefit for me (and ultimately for him). I guess you can say he 'manipulated' me to keep my job, but really I'm really the one with options. What system would you suggest that is fair to me and him that isn't free market capitalism?

If you think this system is chaotic you'd be really lost in my ideal system where Federal Reserve doesn't have a monopoly on the monetary system.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Agreed. They should be paid alot more for risking their health. There's no way i want to be a cashier right now and increase my chances of getting the virus by 1000%.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Sure, but this pandemic is different. High unemployment means there are more people willing to work as cashiers and risk getting sick because they have no other option.

Which means companies can get away with paying low wages for a currently high-risk job. It's unfair in my opinion.

a reply to: blueman12

If the market were free from government interference it would be more fair....right? But the workers right to work is being hampered.

None of that relates to what i was saying though

a reply to: blueman12

Fwiw...im working the cash drawer right now too.