Deaths from Covid19 in Italy

Italy has been and still is the leading country in covid19 deaths in the world.
As of today, of the +110k cases, +13k have died.
These death, reported by the media, are all caused by the Corona virus. So is being said.
Is this virus really the main cause of death or did the victims died from any underlying disease(s)?
What do the reports from the Italian Institute of Health and Epidemiology for public health says?
Let's look at the age first

Out of the +10.000 patients in the report, 8.300 were above the age of 70. The average age of the patients were 78 years. While the average lifespan in Italy is 82 years. So that seems like a fairly normal age to die in Italy.
Let's see what else is being said on the cause of death for these patients.


Seems like only 2.1% of the victims had no underlying medical condition, while more than half of all cases(51.7%) had 3 or more medical conditions.
So why are all these cases being reported as 'died from Covid19' ?
Did they really died from the virus or from their other medical condition or was it just old age that took it's toll?
How about someone who was infected with Covid19 but died from concussion from a fall of a ladder, will he be added to the list 'died from Covid19' ?
Did all these people died FROM the virus or did they died WITH the virus?

You might say that we haven't got any clue how many died from this virus or even how deadly this virus really is. Is it the virus that is dangerous or is it Big media and Big government?

All these numbers reported are just...well numbers. Everyday, every hour these numbers are being shoved down our throats, pushed into the back of our brains to invoke fear and obedience.
Nothing more than Propaganda. To accomplish what actually?




Characteristics of COVID-19 patients dying in Italy Report based on available data on March 30th, 2020


If someone has links to similar reports from other countries please share.

a reply to: intergalactic fire

Italy’s Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported

www.wsj.com...

a reply to: intergalactic fire

This is typical of western countries right now. ANY death that can be blamed on Coronavirus is being blamed on Coronavirus because, otherwise, more of their citizens would realize the numbers simply aren't there to warrant the fascism steps taken in the name of "fighting" this boogeyman. The numbers game has become propaganda, pure and simple, and like all propaganda it is intended to benefit or justify governments, purely.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: intergalactic fire

This is typical of western countries right now. ANY death that can be blamed on Coronavirus is being blamed on Coronavirus because, otherwise, more of their citizens would realize the numbers simply aren't there to warrant the fascism steps taken in the name of "fighting" this boogeyman. The numbers game has become propaganda, pure and simple, and like all propaganda it is intended to benefit or justify governments, purely.

This is typical of western countries right now. ANY death that can be blamed on Coronavirus is being blamed on Coronavirus because,

.... it doesnt get that 1/1000c per click , otherwise ?

a reply to: intergalactic fire

What would be interesting is to see the data from this same time last year on flu deaths and deaths overall at the same hospitals to compare.

The other data point that I never see address is non-covid flu deaths that are happening concurrently.

We are told that Covid is unique. However, we also know for fact that flu kills X amount of people per year. I've yet to hear anyone say something like "Not only are we having 1000 covid deaths, we are still having 2000 people die from the flu during this time too".

See, if the flu is not the same as Covid, then we should see both sets of numbers running concurrently during the same time period. Yet for some reason, regular flu has just seemed to have disappeared even though we know flu kills thousands every year.

I suspect any flu death has now morphed into a covid19 death.

Chilllllllllla reply to: lightedhype

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Even the U.S. Centers For Disease Control (CDC) issued a directive to hospitals and coroners that if a person has Covid-19 when they die, their cause of death is to be listed as Covid-19.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Even the U.S. Centers For Disease Control (CDC) issued a directive to hospitals and coroners that if a person has Covid-19 when they die, their cause of death is to be listed as Covid-19.

I guess another question is if hospitals are testing every admit for Covid-19 even if their admittance was unrelated to Covid. So if a guy gets hit by a bus, they bring him in the ER. He is tests positive for Covid-19 and dies, do they label the death Covid or blunt trauma?

I think a lot of people have Covid and for the vast majority it is no different from a cold or flu. It does sound like Covid might be a bit more deadly to those who already have one foot in grave or extremely unhealthy as it seems to bring on pneumonia (which is already deadly for the elderly).

a reply to: burdman30ott6


Yeeh look`s like it

a reply to: Edumakated

Was talking about this earlier with my girlfriend. Where did all the seasonal flu cases go? Would love to see a breakdown of hospitalizations/deaths due to "just the flu" right now and last March's numbers for good measure. Would definitely provide some perspective.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: intergalactic fire

This is typical of western countries right now. ANY death that can be blamed on Coronavirus is being blamed on Coronavirus because, otherwise, more of their citizens would realize the numbers simply aren't there to warrant the fascism steps taken in the name of "fighting" this boogeyman. The numbers game has become propaganda, pure and simple, and like all propaganda it is intended to benefit or justify governments, purely.

Right! Every gubment in the world is collaborating and faking deaths just to warrant the fascism while they trash their own economy. All this is major plot to get your gunz!!//!!??!!!!!

If you are healthcare worker you see the link with COVID and health issues old people have. What you are saying in your post is that they have died because they have underlying issues is true for one point BUT what this disease does and what healtcare workers see is a patient coming and cannot breath, some have hypoxia which means oxygen levels are low and death comes because organ failure and it is nasty death by drowning !

a reply to: dollukka

they have died because they have underlying issues

Their underlying issues were not deadly. And if it wasn't for Covid19 they would be alive now. So the cause of death was Covid19.

a reply to: moebius

I was pointing out OP opinion not mine.
What you said is exactly what i meant.

a reply to: Kenzo

Think about this... the average age of people dying in countries with believable reporting is between 68 and 78 years old. Not to sound callous, but there are good reasons that Social Security doesn't start until someone is 65... generally speaking, if you hear someone 70 or older has passed away is there usually a big to do trying to determine cause of death, or is the first thing to cross your mind when you think "why?" the simple fact that the person had reached the age when people start dying of natural causes? Globally 15% (approximately) of people over 70 who get Coronavirus die "from" Coronavirus... realistically speaking, isn't that a valid statement about most ailments once someone is in their 70s or older? If a 70 year old dies from a heart attack is the reaction surprise and sadness that they actually had a heart attack or shock that a heart attack at that age proved fatal?

My point here is statistically speaking healthy people aren't really dying from Coronavirus. Younger people arent either unless there are significant comorbidities and, realistically speaking, heart attacks, strokes, and diabetes also claim younger people with underlying health conditions.

Again, the numbers simply do NOT add up to the responses governments are cursing their populations with being justifiable in any way. We are getting played like a fiddle here and, even more sadly, it seems like most people arent just falling for it, they're demanding it.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yes, my mother is past 70 now, and even before this all corona started it was clear for me that she is in the age where more people start get dieing, old people die more allways, but now it seems like every old die because of covid-19


This all really do not add up,and they are allready taking away our freedom of movement because of this silly supposed virus that dont seem to be even dangerous. This is 9/11 again but just with much bigger scale.


Totalitarianism at work and people are demanding to get lockdown borders so they can feel "safe"...is this real

originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: dollukka

they have died because they have underlying issues

Their underlying issues were not deadly. And if it wasn't for Covid19 they would be alive now. So the cause of death was Covid19.

So you are saying their underlying medical conditions were not deadly?
Here is a list a the top causes of deaths in Italy from 2017, compare that with the list from the OP 'common comorbidities observed in COVID-19 positive deceased patients', notice the differences?
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www.healthdata.org...