The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed.

originally posted by: Graysen
Firebird I will take this from the opposite side, and argue that if you were a corporation, climbing into bed with the government is your first mistake.

Government money is like heroin; if the government actually does come through with the pay money, your company will get so addicted to the waste, it won't be able to compete in the actual free market.

There was a time when general dynamics made a host of consumer products- the best in the biz. There was a time when GD made the best refrigerators washing machines etc. etc. but then they started building boats for the Navy, now they can barely do that well.

If you own a small to midsize company that winds up with a government contract, you'd discover very quickly the kind of executives who show up to help out. They are focused on lobbying the government, instead of answering the call from the marketplace. And the government is capricious. There's no way to predict what the policy will be in the next election cycle. And the tension entices people to ignore the market and just worship at the altar of government. To paraphrase an old saying, those who can compete, do; those who can't… Landed government contract.

There was a time when every major American auto maker made a police package for squad cars. And Harley Davidson owned police motorcycle units. Every company that did that he's facing bankruptcy now. Government is nowhere near as reliable as the free market as a source of future earnings.

Not to denigrate. Or minimize your point. It's a bad idea all around for both government and for private industry.

Quoting the whole thing because I'm lazy and late.

Your point is well taken. I used to work in aerospace in project management. And I agree that no company of whatever size should work exclusively for the federal (or other government entities) and it's a sign of health that the original company that was contracted was discounting the product to the Feds because they BELIEVED in the viability of the product commercially.

The military industrial complex exists almost solely these days on Taxpayer funding. So do many other industries and companyies. It's bad business.

In this case the Government was to fund development (as it does with much Pharma research) and quarantee buying x number of units with the company able to sell commercially as well. This is a true partnership not a handout. And the original company would have sold them on the open market for more but not at exorbitant markup.

There is also the issue of profiteering on death. But that is for another thread.

originally posted by: Graysen
The government has been ignoring its contracts since before they promised to leave the Black Hills to the Sioux nation.

" as long as the wind blows, grass grows, and the sky is blue… "

That would be a treaty not a contract.

And the government did not 'ignore' the contract, it was predatory capitalism that was the cause of the cancellation.

Read for understnading.

originally posted by: FlyingSquirrel
a reply to: FyreByrd

The suspect company that foiled the ventillators from being made is named Covidien too.

You can't make this stuff up because it'd sound too obvious and corny.

I didn't write the article 1 and 2 you didn't read the article either.

originally posted by: FlyingSquirrel

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: FyreByrd

You stating that the New York Times is a reputable outlet made me skip the rest of your OP.

I'm assuming capitalism bad, socialism good?

I wouldn't know because they charge money to be able to read their articles.

I told you that their corona virus coverage is free but that you might have to sign up for a mailing list.

Clearly you did not read and therefore have nothing to post about.

The MY PILLOW GUY doing the same...and wont get recognition for being a Trump supporter..a reply to: Irishhaf

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: FlyingSquirrel
a reply to: FyreByrd

The suspect company that foiled the ventilators from being made is named Covidien too.

You can't make this stuff up because it'd sound too obvious and corny.

LOl its the NY Times, of course, it could be made up. That's part of the problem we have no one viable source of news anymore if we ever did. Now however you have to view every article with a skeptical eye.

Regardless its a ventilator can't be that hard to get the ball rolling and knocking some of them out

It would be helpful to learn how to check out a source:

Overall, we rate the New York Times Left-Center biased based on word and story selection that moderately favors the left,

[color=yellow]
but highly factual and considered one of the most reliable sources for news information due to proper sourcing and well respected journalists/editors.

The failed fact checks that occurred were on Op-Ed’s and not straight news reporting.

mediabiasfactcheck.com...

This was not an OP Ed. Do you know the difference?

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: FyreByrd

You stating that the New York Times is a reputable outlet made me skip the rest of your OP.

I'm assuming capitalism bad, socialism good?

I'm sorry you feel that way about factual reporting.

You quoted a news outlet that has among other things in it's checkered past denied the holocaust.

A media outlet that had to publicly apologize to Trump after he won the election for their "bad" reporting of him because their revenues were so low that they could either do that or go out of business.

A company that had to get bailed out by a Mexican billionaire to keep afloat.

A media outlet famous for being chock-full of racist and antisemitic writers and editors.

So you took an alt-left publication, digested the propaganda pablum and vomited it into an OP for us to suffer through reading.

You're sorry I don't take it as factual reporting.

I'm sorry that you took the time to do it in the first place.

So you're sorry, I'm sorry...

Companies do this sort of thing , constantly .
They buy up another company.
Loot it for resources.
Then , that collapses.
Instant tax right off.

a reply to: FyreByrd

"Government officials and executives at rival ventilator companies said they suspected that Covidien had acquired Newport to prevent it from building a cheaper product that would undermine Covidien’s profits from its existing ventilator business."

Interesting name...


ETA: I see someone else caught that, too....

a reply to: FyreByrd

This man....Dr. Yamada Tadataka. He was a director at Covidien at the time of the acquisition. Link

He also served as President of the Global Health Program at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Link

And was Chief Medical and Scientific Officer at Takeda Pharmaceuticals which developed the first FDA approved treatment for COVID-19: Drugmaker Takeda Sees Speedy Approval of Coronavirus Treatment

Prior to that, he served as chair of the board of directors at the Clinton Health Access Initiative. Link

There's some interesting leads in this OP....

originally posted by: Gothmog
Companies do this sort of thing , constantly .
They buy up another company.
Loot it for resources.
Then , that collapses.
Instant tax right off.

Wasn't that Mitt Romneys gig?

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: FlyingSquirrel
a reply to: FyreByrd

The suspect company that foiled the ventilators from being made is named Covidien too.

You can't make this stuff up because it'd sound too obvious and corny.

LOl its the NY Times, of course, it could be made up. That's part of the problem we have no one viable source of news anymore if we ever did. Now however you have to view every article with a skeptical eye.

Regardless its a ventilator can't be that hard to get the ball rolling and knocking some of them out

It would be helpful to learn how to check out a source:

Overall, we rate the New York Times Left-Center biased based on word and story selection that moderately favors the left,

[color=yellow]
but highly factual and considered one of the most reliable sources for news information due to proper sourcing and well respected journalists/editors.

The failed fact checks that occurred were on Op-Ed’s and not straight news reporting.

mediabiasfactcheck.com...

This was not an OP Ed. Do you know the difference?

Oh bull# it doesn't matter if it's an opinion piece of not, overall point is we aren't talking about nuclear reactors here, cut through the BS and get them made. Does not matter if some azzhat ripped off some company in the past? I fail to see where a NY Times hit piece makes any difference now except its a hit piece.

a reply to: Graysen

They have always talked with a forked tongue.

More information on the ventilator front:

This is about the GM collaboration with Ventec that Trump is all atwitter about:

“What we’ve accomplished in five days is incredible,” Larryson Foltran, who works in a technology support group at G.M., wrote on Facebook, noting he had been working 14 to 18 hours a day. He said the president’s posts had bothered him “on a deeper level.”

Ultimately, G.M. and Ventec executives decided that they would offer no direct response to the president because responding would only invite more criticism from the White House, two people familiar with those discussions said.

Even if the federal government ultimately declines to buy the machines Ventec and G.M. make, the companies are moving ahead because they know there will be other customers around the country, and across the world, four people familiar with their plans said.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: FyreByrd

You stating that the New York Times is a reputable outlet made me skip the rest of your OP.

I'm assuming capitalism bad, socialism good?

I'm sorry you feel that way about factual reporting.

You quoted a news outlet that has among other things in it's checkered past denied the holocaust.

A media outlet that had to publicly apologize to Trump after he won the election for their "bad" reporting of him because their revenues were so low that they could either do that or go out of business.

A company that had to get bailed out by a Mexican billionaire to keep afloat.

A media outlet famous for being chock-full of racist and antisemitic writers and editors.

So you took an alt-left publication, digested the propaganda pablum and vomited it into an OP for us to suffer through reading.

You're sorry I don't take it as factual reporting.

I'm sorry that you took the time to do it in the first place.

So you're sorry, I'm sorry...

It's nice you said all this....

How do I know it's true....

You offer no support whatsoever for your statements...

Bailouts - you want to talk about bailouts?

Talk about checkered....

Where do you get your Facts? Or do you just believe what agrees with what you want to believe? Is anything outside your belief bubble so threatening to your beliefs that you don't even look at it?

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: FyreByrd

You stating that the New York Times is a reputable outlet made me skip the rest of your OP.

I'm assuming capitalism bad, socialism good?

It wasn't even that long and you missed the facts of what happened, but, at least your assessment of the OP was way off base based on assumptions.

Made yourself look silly. Should have just clicked off if you couldn't handle the mention of New York Times.

More ventilator information - from The Economist"

And again, their coronavirus coverage is offered free - IF -- IF:

Editor’s note: The Economist is making some of its most important coverage of the covid-19 pandemic freely available to readers of The Economist Today, our daily newsletter. To receive it, register here. For more coverage, see our coronavirus hub

www.economist.com...

Title: [size=4]Formula 1 comes up with a breathing machine for covid-19 patients

I believe this is a duplicate of the earlier Mercedes post.

This week one team, Mercedes-amg, obtained approval for a device which it can quickly manufacture by the thousand.

It better explains the outcome and how it will benefit patients.

The machine is not a ventilator, but a breathing aid of a type known as a continuous-positive-airway-pressure (cpap) device.

These are typically used to assist people who have breathing problems to sleep more soundly. The machine delivers air at slightly above atmospheric pressure via a mask placed over the nose and mouth. This helps keep open the alveoli of the lungs. (These are the sacs from which blood absorbs oxygen, and into which it dumps carbon dioxide.)

That reduces the effort of breathing. Additional oxygen can also be added.

According to reports from Italy, around half of patients given cpap treatment have avoided the need for invasive mechanical ventilation, in which a tube is inserted down a patient’s throat.

“The speed with which the team developed the device is remarkable,” reckons Duncan Young, a professor of intensive-care medicine at Oxford University, who is not part of the project.

Patients too unwell for simple oxygen masks, but not ill enough to need a ventilator, can be treated with a cpap machine, says Dr Young. This could, he adds, save lives by freeing up ventilators for those in urgent need of them.

Stay Well

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: FyreByrd

This man....Dr. Yamada Tadataka. He was a director at Covidien at the time of the acquisition. Link

He also served as President of the Global Health Program at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Link

And was Chief Medical and Scientific Officer at Takeda Pharmaceuticals which developed the first FDA approved treatment for COVID-19: Drugmaker Takeda Sees Speedy Approval of Coronavirus Treatment

Prior to that, he served as chair of the board of directors at the Clinton Health Access Initiative. Link

There's some interesting leads in this OP....

Interesting yes - but it's all in the perception and may I ask yours?

Low cost ventilators are not hard to build.

MIT built this prototype 10 years ago.
news.mit.edu...

They have since built this prototype.
news.mit.edu...
Cost around $500.

abc7.com...
www.medgadget.com...
www.newsmaker.news...

13 years ago. Has nothing to do with now...even if they failed to build them. I see this as a war time effort. If GM and Ford and Tesla and whoever else want to do something for the common good, then let them build ventilators...lord knows the auto industry is in the toilet right now, it would be good for them. Its too late for now and what ifs, you could place the blame solely on the shoulders of several different people, companies, whatever you want to do. If this is the war they're saying it is, then get to work to win it. At this point it's better late than never. Hard lesson to be learned.