Science indicates evolution of species.

a reply to: cooperton

References con't


Wilson KS , Noller HF . Molecular movement inside the translational engine. Cell. (1998);92:337–349. [PubMed]
Wimberly BT , Brodersen DE , Clemons WM . et al. Structure of the 30S ribosomal subunit. Nature. (2000);407:327–339. [PubMed]
Yusupov MM , Yusupova GZ , Baucom A . et al. Crystal structure of the ribosome at 5.5 A resolution. Science. (2001);292:883–896. [PubMed]
The RNA World and the Origins of Life
Bartel DP , Unrau PJ . Constructing an RNA world. Trends Cell Biol. (1999);9:M9–M13. [PubMed]
Joyce GF . Directed molecular evolution. Sci. Am. (1992);267(6):90–97. [PubMed]
Knight RD , Landweber LF . The early evolution of the genetic code. Cell. (2000);101:569–572. [PubMed]
Orgel L . Origin of life. A simpler nucleic acid. Science. (2000);290:1306–1307. [PubMed]
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www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

Here's a list of references which contain the mathematical and experimental evidence. Pick one out and tell us why it's wrong. Then you can write a letter to the author.


References
General
Gesteland RF, Cech TR & Atkins JF (eds) (1999) The RNA World, 2nd edn. Cold Spring Harbor, NY: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Press....

Pick one of them that shows the electron transport chain can work without ATP synthase. I'll save you time - none of them do. It's because the electron transport chain is irreducibly complex and requires ATP synthase to function. Very basic biology. Nor do any of them show observable examples of ATP synthase evolving from pre-cursors via evolutionary mechanisms.

Just give it up, your belief system is wrong and we are not meaningless mutant monkeys. This is good news.

a reply to: cooperton

You're the one who never answers questions. You're also the one who made the original hypothesis. It's up to you. I already presented the answers. You just didn't read them.

The REAL world of science understands the electron transport system and it's origin. The data is self evident.

So once again, answer the question or fail.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

You're the one who never answers questions. You're also the one who made the original hypothesis. It's up to you. I already presented the answers. You just didn't read them.

So once again, answer the question or fail.

No I already answered your questions and appeased your little math game. Show me how the electron transport chain can work without ATP synthase, or admit it is irreducibly complex. Your example of anaerobes was insufficient because they too have an ATP synthase that works with sulfates and nitrates

a reply to: cooperton

FAIL. No math, no experimental data.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton



Answer the question. Do the math. Show the experimental data.

Phants, you havnt proved anything, how do you claim victory
It’s just a theory,

You pick one out and prove it’s right, onus is on you
They are all assumption, I don’t have to read them anymore

You only have this one trick, spray, don’t offer anything real or substantial, don’t offer one argument, offer a hundred and don’t justify any of them.

It’s a con, it’s a lie, you can’t offer anything substantial so you offer everything that may possibly be relevant hoping to trick people.

Find something substantial and post it to be debated
You have nothing relevant so offer so much irrelevant to make it look like you have something

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton
FAIL. No math, no experimental data.

And this I love
You offer nothing of value and claim victory
What do you base your victory on, ignorance

You get angry, abusive, act like you are the empire defender but offer nothing. Wizard of Oz, you have nothing

Show something real, drop the smoke and mirrors and offer something real.
Rhetoric “ I am the winner” “you fail” “I am evolutions hero” .
None of your talk is science, you are like a NK dictator

Offer something you think is valid

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Show something real, drop the smoke and mirrors and offer something real.

Phantom's cognitive dissonance is truly remarkable. She even realizes she can't find any organism that can survive without ATP synthase, nor is there any observable evidence that ATP synthase can evolve via evolutionary mechanisms, yet she still refuses to even consider she might be wrong.

She would of course resort to all sorts of lies, distractions, and manipulation to avoid admitting she is wrong. Whats funny is any trained scientist who isn't as biased as she would admit the electron transport chain cannot work without ATP synthase. And that is exactly what irreducible complexity is, and also why step-by-step mutations (evolution) could not have created it.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Don't you realize that Evolution is God's creative technique in Time and Space? I have never understood the argument between Creationism and Evolution-ism. Both are correct. We, mortals and not just us from Earth, are an order of being that evolves. We learn from actual experience. We are born with no experience, just the minimum "programming" to make our physical bodies operate and certain innate instincts.

There are other orders of being that are not this way. Example, Angels, they are "born/created" fully developed. Though they do learn from experience they start life as "adults" so to speak.

It is time for mankind to reevaluate the religions of the world and update them. The thought of man from thousands of years ago, while valuable, should not be what we base our understanding of God and the Universe on.

If you would like to expand your ideas of God, the Universe and your place in it please check out the book titled The Urantia Book (www.urantia.org...).

Here are a couple quotes from the book:

...the realization of the possibility of making for yourselves the greatest discovery possible for the human soul to make, the supernal experience of finding God for yourself, in yourself and of yourself, and doing all this as a fact in your own personal experience.


Men all too often forget that God is the greatest experience in human existence. Other experiences are limited in the nature and content, but the experience of God has no limits save those of the creature's comprehension capacity, and this very experience is in itself capacity enlarging. When men search for God, they are searching for everything. When they find God, they have found everything. The search for God is the unstinted bestowal of love attended by the amazing discoveries of new and greater love to be bestowed.

It can help you find your own understanding of God.