Things that won't happen in the end-times;- Index thread

The prophets of the Bible are normally addressing themselves, in the first instance, to the people of their own time, but their prophecies are sometimes forward-looking. It would be useful to make a brief summary of the kinds of Biblical prophecy that come into that category.

The tradition really begins with “prophecies against the nations”. When enemies are attacking Israel, one of the functions of the prophet is to encourage the people by promising them, and warning the enemy, that God will be fighting on their side and will overcome the aggressors. When the kingdom reaches its low point, just before the fall, there are prophecies of this kind against most of Israel’s neighbours and distant enemies. Going anti-clockwise, we find prophecies against Tyre, the Philistines, Egypt, Edom. Moab, Damascus, Assyria, and Babylon.

This is a recurring problem, and it leads into the “Last battle” form of prophecy, as found in the “valley of decision” passage in Joel. The future scene is that all the enemies of Israel in the world come together for one final conflict with God and his people, so that he can defeat them all in one go, once and for all. Israel will then be at peace.

But true peace, the kind of peace which mankind enjoyed in Eden, would require the removal of many other kinds of trouble, such as drought, infertility, disease, premature death. So the picture extends into what I’m calling “peace restored” prophecy, with additional promises like super-abundant water, super-abundant fertility of crops, and and death postponed until a man has reached a “good old age”.

But the New Testament demands a fresh understanding of all these things. In the New Testament, the defeated “enemy” is that whole complex of “sin-and-death” which came into the world in the early chapters of Genesis. The victory is won by the death and Resurrection of Christ, and consummated by the Return of Christ.

If our understanding of the “last battle” must be reconsidered in the light of Jesus, then our understanding of what follows the last battle needs to be reconsidered in the same way. That was the theme of my “Peace restored” series last summer, in which I considered the New Testament understanding of such Old Testament themes as blessing, new life, and “coming home”.

At the same time, Daniel and Revelation teach us to expect at least one more final clash with human hostility, and I’ve presented threads covering those books as well. This brings us to “the end-times” in the popular sense, that is the period shortly before the Return of Christ.

In modern times, this period has been the subject of intense speculation, much of it based on some very slender Biblical support. In this mini-series, I have been rounding off my work on Biblical prophecy by trying to tackle some of the more egregious examples of fantasy. My motivation is best explained by a post which happened to be written as a response on somebody else’s thread; “What I’m attacking in this series is a very modern tendency to look for a detailed narrative of the end-times. It is doctrinal innovation, it is happening because people have got ‘itching ears’ for this sort of thing, it involves misinterpretation of scripture, and it distracts from the gospel.” That sums it up, really.

Doctrinal innovation.
This must be the most important flaw, because it ought to be enough to condemn any proposition, from the Christian viewpoint. Any new teaching is necessarily a change in the teaching. That was the same flaw which condemned the speculations of the Gnostics. I suppose part of the problem is that people don’t have enough sense of history to appreciate when a speculation like “the Genesis giants returning” is a gratuitous novelty akin to the Gnostic fantasies about Aeons.

Itching ears.
At one point during this series there were Bible-reading Christians refusing to read a passage of scripture, because it would contradict and destroy the pleasing theory which they had picked up from third parties. I refer to the simple words in which Jesus explains EXACTLY what he means by the introductory statement “It will be as in the days of Noah, because…”. And why was the “return of the giants” speculation preferable to the words of Jesus? Presumably because the concept is new and interesting- I can’t think of any other explanation.

Paul says; “The time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from the truth and wander into myths” (2 Timothy ch4 vv3-4). That prediction is fulfilled this day by those people who turn away from the sound teaching in the words of Jesus and take their itching ears to anyone willing to offer myths about returning giants.

Misinterpretation of scripture;
One of the perennial faults is perversely applied literalism. Another is the taking of statements out of context. For example, the “returning giants” speculation is only possible because “in the days of Noah” has been carefully and ruthlessly cut away from its Matthew ch24 context, in which Jesus explains what he means.

Let us imagine that someone has found two notes exchanged between husband and wife. One says “I love you because you understand me, but most of all I love you ‘cos you’re you” (which gives my age away). The other says “I rang the plumber, as you asked, and he’s coming on Wednesday afternoon”. What would you think of him if he cobbled parts of these notes together and arrived at the reading “I love you because the plumber is coming on Wednesday afternoon”? Yet this would not be more bizarre than the reading “It will be as in the days of Noah, because the giants of Genesis ch6 are coming back”, which has been created in much the same way.

Distraction from the gospel;
This applies in two senses. These speculations are a distraction to those who get caught up in them, because they have no real Christian function. We do not need to have a detailed narrative of the end-times, with or without projected dates, in order to be prepared for anything that might come. What we need, according to Revelation, is “faith and endurance”, and we can settle ourselves in faith without knowing details of the future.

At the same time, they are a distraction to non-Christians who might otherwise have been encouraged to hear the gospel. They will be asking, “Why on earth should we give credit to Christian teaching, if those who believe in it also believe such obvious nonsense as ‘returning giants’?” It must be a stumbling-block. Paul calls the Cross a stumbling-block, but that one is a necessary stumbling-block, because the Cross is an essential element in the gospel. “Returning giants” is a gratuitous and unnecessary stumbling-block, as people would see if they could get over their emotional attachment to the idea.

I will now add, below, the promised index.

www.abovetopsecret.com... The peace treaty arranged by the Antichrist

www.abovetopsecret.com... Rebuilding a physical temple

www.abovetopsecret.com... The destruction of Damascus.

www.abovetopsecret.com... The return of the giants

www.abovetopsecret.com... The Rapture

www.abovetopsecret.com... Armageddon as a physical battle between human armies

www.abovetopsecret.com... The reincarnation of Christ


And also, while we’re at it;

www.abovetopsecret.com... Peace

www.abovetopsecret.com... The Last Battle in Old Testament prophecy

www.abovetopsecret.com... Peace restored

www.abovetopsecret.com... The book of Revelation

Heres something for you!

My dad is a genius scientist with many titles. He is 93, and has a faith in Christ. He has found intelligent design in math.
So anyway... A couple or more years ago he began telling me that something is going to happen in Egypt, and more recently he has decided that he knows what that something is.
Egypt an Ethiopia are having problems getting along. Egypt has a very strong military, as far as I remember. Dad said Egypt gets washed out to sea, and he began trying to figure out how that could happen.

Egypt relies on the Nile for all kinds of things, including transportation. The Ethiopians have been building a giant dam upstream for several years, and Egypt is angry about the curtailment of water. It is affecting them, and they are angry. They got the Trump administration involved, but it didn't help work things out. Dad believes that a possible scenario is, that Egypt blows up the Ethiopians dam, and the Ethiopians take revenge and blow up Aswan dam. The water behing Aswan would definitely waste portions of Egypt. 80% of Egyptians live along the Nile. They would be washed away in short order.

Scripture says that it will become a waste land for 40 years, with only certain animals making a home there, and Egypt will never again rise to the powerhouse it once was. Lets watch and see!

a reply to: visitedbythem
I regard the prophecies against Egypt as prophecies fulfilled at the time. They were invaded by the Assyrians and the Persians. Egypt has never, since then, been the power in the world that it was in the time of the prophets.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Well, we will see. Many of the prophecies were two fold. We may very well be discussing this further in the near future

Nice....I gotta look it all up....thanks, give me something to search....cool
Yup two fold and after decades of reading Scripture....easily three fold

reply to: visitedbythem

Inferring a rapture this year, by my conjecturing timelines in the Scripture...that would be what is meant it was written..." Oh Death, where is thy sting...Oh Grave, where is thy victory "


I thought of an occurrence we won't see....in the end times.....2029.....he he

a reply to: GBP/JPY
In 2012, nobody was expecting to see 2013.

a reply to: DISRAELI

You poo poo people who interpet as in the days of Noah and giants, yet you interpet scripture in dispensations which came about with Darby's theology of the 1800's.

a reply to: JON666
No I do not. I never learned "dispensation" theology, and I've never taught it. I suspect my approach is what the dispensationalists disparage and despise as "replacement theology". Perhaps we need to discuss and sort out definitions of terms.

P.S. For example, the dispensationalists seem to be enthusiasts for the Rapture, which is one of the concepts that I've been challenging. Wasn't that one of Darby's theories? As far as I know, I and they are on opposite sides of the fence.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
www.abovetopsecret.com... The peace treaty arranged by the Antichrist

www.abovetopsecret.com... Rebuilding a physical temple

www.abovetopsecret.com... The destruction of Damascus.

www.abovetopsecret.com... The return of the giants

www.abovetopsecret.com... The Rapture

www.abovetopsecret.com... Armageddon as a physical battle between human armies

www.abovetopsecret.com... The reincarnation of Christ


And also, while we’re at it;

www.abovetopsecret.com... Peace

www.abovetopsecret.com... The Last Battle in Old Testament prophecy

www.abovetopsecret.com... Peace restored

www.abovetopsecret.com... The book of Revelation

Thanks for this list.

I was quite gratified to see that I evidently disagree with you about virtually every item.

BTW, I don't recall, are you a Preterist?

Whether you are or aren't your arguments seem to have a lot of their style & flavor as well as their irrationality.

I used to love to get into such topics & hold forth etc. but it has become far too tedious a set of topics for me. And, it can too easily weary the bones because there is rarely much light shared in such a dialogue--if dialogue can be an accurate word, at all.

I thought on reading the thread title that there might be 1-3 items that I'd agree with you about. Alas, no. Nope. Nada.

I cut my teeth on Biblical prophecies in 1962 when I was in Jr High School when the pastor began a series on such topics at my mother's request. Her father and family loved to discuss such Biblical verses and topics. My understanding has evolved slightly but I don't recall any major revisions from my convictions & interpretations in Jr High.

BTW, I think your bit about the giants returning mostly sounds grossly uninformed--evidently in terms of the Biblical record & root word meanings as well as evidence from the last 50 years or so.

a reply to: JoseGarcia
When it comes to the study of Revelation, I'm a futurist, not a preterist. You can try that series, if you like. That is because Revelation is one of the parts of the Bible which is actually meant to be about the future. What I'm challenging here is the modern obsession about finding future prophecy EVERYWHERE.

originally posted by: JoseGarcia
BTW, I think your bit about the giants returning mostly sounds grossly uninformed--evidently in terms of the Biblical record & root word meanings as well as evidence from the last 50 years or so.

All I actually need to know is the text of Matthew ch24, where the meaning of "As in the days of Noah" is fully explained. Why, why, why, are people closing their ears to the words of Jesus, where he himself explains what he means? it is perverse.

P.S. In your haste, you seem to be including the reincarnation of Christ in the list of things you believe in. Perhaps you'll want to re-consider. That one is slightly out of place in this series, being it doesn't come from Christian circles at all.

I'm curious...tell us the perverse angle....The Nephilim will show...hope to be gone for thata reply to: DISRAELI

a reply to: DISRAELI


Tales of ancient giants sell books.


Giants have nothing to do with Salvation and are a distraction. There is no use wasting time on speculation on "what" happened as what "will" happen.


What is that? Well, you will perish one way or the other. That is inevitable. Only through Christ can you surely be saved. Only though his sacrifice on the cross to pay your debt can you overcome death and have everlasting life.

a reply to: GBP/JPY
If someone wants to know what Jesus means, and pays no attention to the explanation that Jesus himself gives, that's being perverse.

a reply to: infolurker
Ah, someone who understands what I'm trying to do. Thank you.

"things that won't happen in the end-times">op

Truth
Honest politicians
Peace in israel
sovereignty
end of hunger and poverty
health care

originally posted by: JON666
a reply to: DISRAELI

You poo poo people who interpet as in the days of Noah and giants, yet you interpet scripture in dispensations which came about with Darby's theology of the 1800's.

NOPE. The bulk of the dispensational theology points have been traced to the first century Christian Church.


www.pre-trib.org...

. . .

Conclusion:

In spite of the claims that Premillennial Dispensationalism is of recent origin, very little of what John Nelson Darby wrote in the mid-nineteenth century was new.255 According to Newton scholar Stephen Snobelen of King’s College, Halifax, “prophetic interpretation was a high intellectual endeavor in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.”256 Those who insist Premillennialism is of recent origin need only study the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the earliest of church fathers (pre-Augustine, except for the Alexandrine metaphorical school), or !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 251 Ibid.,!58,349. 252

Alexander!Fraser,!Key%to%the%Prophecies%of%the%Old%&%New%Testament,%which%are%not%yet%accomplished (Edinburgh,!1795),!50V51. 253 Ibid.,!171V173. 254 Ibid.,!465V468.
255Paul!Boyer;!When%Time%Shall%Be%No%More:%Prophecy%Belief%in%Modern%American%Culture%(Harvard,!1994).
256 Steven!Snobelen,!“’A!Time!and!times!and!the!dividing!of!time’:!Isaac!Newton,!the!Apocalypse!and!2060!A.D.”!in!History%and%
Science%and%Technology%Programme,!University!of!King’s!College,!Halifax.
54

the many millennial movements for the past two millennia. Whenever Christians were oppressed they sought hope in a Messiah, but whenever they were comfortable and triumphant these millennial hopes faded. In the seventeenth century a Cambridge don, Joseph Mede, produced the first comprehensive Reformed system of eschatology, something the Reformers failed to develop. About the same time an Amsterdam rabbi, Manasseh ben Israel, promoted among the Puritans a hope that the Jews would be returned to their own land. Early seventeenth century Puritans and their successors in the late seventeenth and eighteenth centuries believed this would presage the impending collapse of Rome and papal power.

Among them were John Milton, Increase Mather, Bishop William Lloyd, Isaac Newton, and numerous others. The seventeenth and eighteenth century millenarians presented in this paper were precursors to the better known nineteenth century Dispensationalists like Darby and Schofield, who influenced popular evangelical writers of the twentieth century like Lewis Sperry Chafer, John Walvoord, Charles Ryrie, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, and Joel Rosenberg.

. . .

www.standeyo.com...

150BC - 70AD Rapture Mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls

"A Newly Discovered Dead Sea Scroll Has Revealed Who Will be Left Behind When the Rapture Comes a Leading Scholar Reports" from the journalist David Augustine. (Jack van Impe Ministries, June 16, 2005)

In this article Dr. William Harold, professor of Canon Law, at the Theological Seminary of Essex, GB wrote:
"Without doubt, this is the most important discovery in the history of Biblical archeology. The scroll, written in Aramaic, the language spoken in the Holy Land during Jesus time on earth, was found in a cave on the shores of the Dead Sea by geologists conducting a survey for the Israeli government."

The scrolls read:

"The Rapture will occur suddenly. And countless thousands will vanish from the earth. Swept up to heaven to live with Jesus and escape the torment of the Tribulation, the others will be left behind." — The Dead Sea Scrolls



Many others believed and taught this long before John Darby


95-150 AD, the Rapture idea was preached by the Shepherd of Hermas. 2

"You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly." (documented by Larry V. Crutchfield) 3

standeyo.com...


standeyo.com...

www.jpost.com...


standeyo.com...

standeyo.com...

standeyo.com...


torahthinking.com...

EZEKIEL:

www.youtube.com...

HEARD ON HEADPHONES THAT WERE NOT CONNECTED TO ANYTHING:

patburt.com...

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: DISRAELI


Tales of ancient giants sell books.


Giants have nothing to do with Salvation and are a distraction. There is no use wasting time on speculation on "what" happened as what "will" happen.


What is that? Well, you will perish one way or the other. That is inevitable. Only through Christ can you surely be saved. Only though his sacrifice on the cross to pay your debt can you overcome death and have everlasting life.

I'm sure the military (Army I think but could have been Marines) folks having to fight the cannibalistic huge Kandahar giant would be soooo impressed by your arguments. It took a huge copter to carry his body off.

Lots of folks who think they have it ALL figured out will be proven shy of the facts to out-right wrong.

OF COURSE only through Christ is there any Salvation at all.

Nevertheless, Scripture exhorts us to study. And that studying Revelation brings a blessing. Being prepped in mind & spirit is much better than being caught ignorant & clueless.