Bob Lazar Fact or fiction ?

a reply to: DMac84xx

I have watched a lot of Lazar content, and its in my belief that he believes what hes saying. Now is all of the information accurate and true? There is probably a mix of both somewhere in there - but he thinks its real and the the truth.

Does he believe he went to MIT or Cal Tech?


I don't believe I went to Devry I KNOW I DID and can prove it.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Well, there WAS a Department Of Naval Intelligence - but that was over 70 years ago.

Oh, well you didn’t know, he’s a time traveler, too.

originally posted by: DMac84xx
I have watched a lot of Lazar content, and its in my belief that he believes what hes saying. Now is all of the information accurate and true? There is probably a mix of both somewhere in there - but he thinks its real and the the truth.

I know but the thing is in the 80's he did a physics lecture on ufo technology

www.youtube.com...

For starters he explained some simple stuff (light speed, nearest star) but was clearly an untrained physicist.
He then goes on to explain that the strong force is gravity A. I don't feel like getting into that and all the other ridiculous stuff he said.

But….his sci-fi part of the lecture just happened to be what current sic-fi was talking about in movies (wormholes), actually just wormholes. He went with matter-antimatter annihilation with the fuel source which is also just like a big nuclear explosion. There is no gravity A or wormholes there?
He made so many errors in scientific language, even in explaining how solar systems form.

He never even mentioned general relativity but claimed the strong force was another gravity. I know I said this. It's like saying light is really gravity A and that's how we make wormholes.

So cool, now if he did believe what he was saying..then someone else provided him with this lecture. But why won't he even mention this stuff anymore?

I think the most probable thing is he came up with this whole fraud lecture on his own and since it's been so deeply debunked he just ignores it.
Now he says "we don't understand the tech.." But he gave a detailed lecture?

At 14:57 he actually calls gravity B light by saying "once you can access gravity a you can amplify it just like any other electromagnetic wave.

So gravity A is the strong force, and it's also light. C'mon….
www.youtube.com...


So if Lazar is at all smart he must know this is all made up stuff?

It bums me out because stuff like the Lazar Netflix special keeps the ufo field right around the Bigfoot scene.
People who may have good sightings who are reputable do not want to be associated with Lazar even by association for just one news cycle.
And we never get any credible reports.

I say he is legit, having someone outside mainstream scientific communities to reverse engineer something that has had them stumped for years would be an idea I could see a Bureaucrat coming up with. Bureaucrat -> "If you can't do the job find someone who can from the private sector".

I still think the reasons for complete secrecy of these craft isn't what we expect....to protect timelines and prevent the Grandfather syndrome?

originally posted by: JackFrostvc
There is a myth that has been going around that Bob Lazar passed all 4 lie detector tests he ever did.

This is not the case. I researched this a while back

Bob only ever did 2 Polygraph exams to test if he was lying. Both arranged by George Knapp

The first was done by Polygrapher Ron Slay. Ron asked Bob a set of questions which indicated Bob was being deceptive. He then asked Bob the same set of questions and this time it seemed Bob might be telling the truth. Ron Slay then said the exam was Inconclusive and recommended Bob be tested again

The second test was done months later by Terry Tavernetti who worked in security at a casino. Terry is on camera saying Bob showed clear signs of deception during the first set of questions he asked him - including whteher he had seen a saucer. Terry then asked a few more sets of questions and in those sets of questions he thought Bob might be telling the truth.

Terry then conferred with two other Polygraphers. The first one agreed with Terry but the Second one disagreed with Terry. In the end they concluded the Polygraph result as neither Bob telling the truth or Lying.

A couple of months after Terry's Polygraph exam was done, Knapp said someone broke into Terry's office and stole the Polygraph results.

From George Knapp's keyboard and posted right here on ATS;

When I asked Bob to submit to a polygraph exam, he did not hesitate. The first exam was inconclusive. The examiner said he felt that Lazar was too frightened to register an accurate result.

The second set of polygraph exams was administered by a former Orange County police officer [@57:45 into the video I've linked in a comment above], Terry Tavernetti, who still works as a security chief for a major LV corporation. Tavernetti took a lot more time in calming Bob down prior to the exams.

He administered four sets of tests and Bob passed all of them...easily. Tavernetti gave me an on camera interview and said that Lazar was being truthful. A few months later, there was a break-in at TT's home. The burglars targeted his polygraph charts and nothing else. Hmmm

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Can you share your research disproving these claims?

a reply to: MerkabaTribeEntity


There were two exams , each comprised multiple sets of questions.

Watch this video form 10:20 in. www.youtube.com...
It outlines the two different Polygraphers and exams that happened at two different times months apart.
First tester was Ron Slay and the second was Terry Tavernetti

1st Polygraph exam) Ron asked two sets of questions , Bob failed the first and passed the second, the result therefor for the exam was inconclusive

2nd Polygraph exam) Terry asked some sets of questions as well, Bob failed the first set of question but I think passed the next sets. Terry then conferred with two other Polygraphers and they were split on their decisions. Due to this they agreed the final outcome of Terry's Polygraph exam as not enough to go on to say truthful or not.

At the 45 second mark in this vid, Terry (the second examiner) talks about how Bob failed the first set of questions he had asked him. youtu.be...

Here is write up of the tests: www.mysterywire.com...

Here's a statement Knapp made to the admin of the paracast.com about the Two exams:

"You can parse it any way you would like but there were two polygraph
sessions. On two different evenings, we met with polygraph examiners.
There were two separate sessions, two examiners total. I would call that
two tests, though in both cases, the examiners broke up the tests into
smaller sections."

a reply to: JackFrostvc

Terry is on camera saying Bob showed clear signs of deception during the first set of questions he asked him

From your source;

@10:50 (Narration);

...Polygrapher [TT] runs a corporate security operation and is a former Los Angeles Police Officer. He put Lazar through four tests and concluded there was no attempt to decieve

@10:57 TT said this;

...And I left there thinking I feel we do have some credibility to what the subject had to say.

From my source, @58:13;

If he's lying, he ought to be in Hollywood, because he gave absolutely no physiological indications of attempted deception.

About halfway through that test, I'm looking down, and all of a sudden the realisation sets in, that I'm looking at a probable, truthful result, and I'm getting chills right now talking about it, because that's what I got.

On every chart that I did, the one relevant question that was the same with every test was the last one; 'Have you deliberately lied to any question that's concerning the UFO information you've given me', and his answer was 'no', with indicators being truthful on the charts, so whatever he told me that night, Bob Lazar truly believes to be the truth.

I'm seeing more inconsistencies with your attempt at rebuttal than I have with Lazar's claims, 🤷🏻‍♂️

FACT.

a reply to: MerkabaTribeEntity

So the Myth I have seen going around was that Bob passed all 4 tests he ever did. I showed there were only 2 exams, and the results of which where inconclusive . This doesn't match the claim of there only ever being 4 exams which he passed. That's the Myth that I have seen going around which I wanted to clear up. That is simply not accurate. There were two exams done at two different times months apart.

The first exam done with Ron, Bob failed a set of questions and then passed a set , the result being inconclusive.

Here is the quote on the Polygraph exam Ron Slay did from that article:

"Polygrapher Ron Slay asked about the technology Lazar had seen.
The results of this exam were inconclusive. Lazar appeared to be truthful on one test, deceitful on a second. Slay recommended that a second examiner be brought in."

The second exam with Terry Tavernetti, Bob failed a set of questions then passed the next sets. I said this before BTW. Terry believed he was telling the truth but since the sets of tests Terry asked were NOT all passed , Terry conferred with two other Polygraphers. One agreed with Terry and one didn't. So they conferred and decided not to make a statement of truthfulness leaving it to further tests needed in the future.
**Terry is on Camera talking about how Bob failed the first set of questions he asked him which is in the video I previously linked - see from 45 seconds in: youtu.be... .

Here is the bit from the YT vid where Terry talks about the first set of questions he asked Bob:

It went exactly the way I thought it might, he was not doing well, he was reacting to the relevant questions more than he was to the control type of questions which is indicative of a person who is deceptive because it's showing an emotion that he does not feel comfortable with.

From the article about Terry's Polygraph exam result:

The polygraphers conferred and decided they would not issue a final statement on truthfulness until more specific testing can be conducted. And that’s where it stands. Tavernetti believes that difficulty in determining Lazar’s truthfulness stems from the fear that was drilled into him.

Everything above, is in no way consistant with the claim he passed all 4 exams he ever did. Which is the claim I was countering. This is something I hear time and time again. ie that he passed all 4 Polygraphs he ever did. This is far from the truth .
He only did 2 exams . And in each exam the result was Inconclusive having failed the first set of questions each of the two examiners asked him.

"Element 115" Probably an isotope of 116, imo.

I think that if that part of the Bob Lazar story is true, they misidentified a 116 isotope as 115.

116 is more likely to have a semi-stable state that matches the 115 physical descriptions as provided by Lazar. If I recall correctly, it's been a bit of time since I investigated this thoroughly.

People always knock this because of the assumption that one can call out an element number and we can produce it, or theorize it, or "it will eventually be found" but that was never the point.

The reason it has any interesting attention in this story is that the description of the semi-stable state, provided by it's location in the so called "isle of stability" was not a common knowledge piece of information at the time of his claim.
However, it matches actual 115 a bit poorly. I've looked at the isle of stability information as well as the half life information that we now know for elements in this range. 116 probably has an isotope that is more stable than real 115 in the isle of stability. If it was 115 and not a 116 isotope then it implies that there was some other mechanism making this 115 sample more stable than expected.

I hope these pieces of his claims turn out to be true, because it implies some interesting material characteristics that are not yet documented.

Being able to fine tune a radioactive half life to that kind of degree would lead to some nice breakthroughs for nuclear science.

I personally believe some of his claims are legitimate, while other pieces are questionable.

If a person was working on projects this classified, do you really think you could corroborate it with public information so easily?
The security at the publicly known bases are extensive. Let alone black projects.
Alien tech, maybe maybe not, but advanced technology? Possibly...

a reply to: Archivalist

This is a fair assessment of the isotope on 115 and 116. I have asked several times if anyone understands the energy sources to power the propulsion of the various observed objects, and never received any knowledgeable answer.

As for Lazar, Grant Cameron has the most reasonable view on the man. The dissemination of info and counterintelligence for these programs was creative genius but it surely backfired when it came to Lazar. Dr E Teller was the reason he was brought in to teh SAP and obviously used accordingly by the military/contractor consortium.

Some of the usual suspects on ATS are pathetic as if they posess absolute knowledge or the ability to debunk various topics. For instance, the insistance by the aforementioned that there is absolutely no reverse engineering program by the USG is such a subjective statement, as tantamount to nonsense as those who profess knowledge about everything else related to this topic.

a reply to: dfnj2015
Re: Element 115
Proof that we knew about 115 15 years before Bob.

kobra.uni-kassel.de...
Extract from the The Journal of Physical Chemistry Vol.78 No.19 [1974]

I'll post this again as Grant echoes my own view(s) on this story.

He was set up.

originally posted by: MrRussell
I'll post this again as Grant echoes my own view(s) on this story.

He was set up.

Never seen that video before thanks for sharing

originally posted by: Archivalist
"Element 115" Probably an isotope of 116, imo.

I think that if that part of the Bob Lazar story is true, they misidentified a 116 isotope as 115.

116 is more likely to have a semi-stable state that matches the 115 physical descriptions as provided by Lazar. If I recall correctly, it's been a bit of time since I investigated this thoroughly.

People always knock this because of the assumption that one can call out an element number and we can produce it, or theorize it, or "it will eventually be found" but that was never the point.

The reason it has any interesting attention in this story is that the description of the semi-stable state, provided by it's location in the so called "isle of stability" was not a common knowledge piece of information at the time of his claim.
However, it matches actual 115 a bit poorly. I've looked at the isle of stability information as well as the half life information that we now know for elements in this range. 116 probably has an isotope that is more stable than real 115 in the isle of stability. If it was 115 and not a 116 isotope then it implies that there was some other mechanism making this 115 sample more stable than expected.

I hope these pieces of his claims turn out to be true, because it implies some interesting material characteristics that are not yet documented.

Being able to fine tune a radioactive half life to that kind of degree would lead to some nice breakthroughs for nuclear science.

I personally believe some of his claims are legitimate, while other pieces are questionable.

If a person was working on projects this classified, do you really think you could corroborate it with public information so easily?
The security at the publicly known bases are extensive. Let alone black projects.
Alien tech, maybe maybe not, but advanced technology? Possibly...

The island of stability idea was around before the 1980s. The "alien tech" concepts - wormholes, antimatter fuel were popular in fiction and he also said that atoms of element 115 cause the strong force to extend out way beyond the atom which is what bends space-time to create the wormhole. But also that somehow an antimatter element 115 is created because he says it uses an antimatter reaction?

Even if physics is completely wrong and the strong force could magically do that it still is just nonsense.
It's like saying any other force (strong force, weak force, electromagnetism) is really "gravity A" which element 115 makes it magically bend space-time but not in a "black hole" way but somehow into a wormholey way to an exact location somewhere far away.
Also that gravity A is different than the regular gravity B which is the regular gravity.
And that gravity is "not a particle, that's silly, but a wave".
But all particles are waves. The strong force does have a particle, the gluon. Like all particles it has wave/particle duality.

Maybe someone else gave Lazar this lecture to give but reading the rational Wiki page on him makes me think he came up with this stuff himself.

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: DMac84xx
I have watched a lot of Lazar content, and its in my belief that he believes what hes saying. Now is all of the information accurate and true? There is probably a mix of both somewhere in there - but he thinks its real and the the truth.

I know but the thing is in the 80's he did a physics lecture on ufo technology
www.youtube.com...

That's no "lecture", that's from the VHS tape that Tri-Dot/Lazar/Huff were peddling in magazine ads. Only $29.95 (that's about $59 in 2020 dollars)

A number of real physicists have thoroughly debunked his "lecture", btw.
ETA: if you want to hear Lazar's "UFO Line" radio show from that same period, which they paid to have on a local Vegas radio station, check out my Youtube channel

a reply to: FosterVS

Did Lazar pay to have UFO Line on the radio station, or did the radio station pay Lazar?

originally posted by: FosterVS

That's no "lecture", that's from the VHS tape that Tri-Dot/Lazar/Huff were peddling in magazine ads. Only $29.95 (that's about $59 in 2020 dollars)

A number of real physicists have thoroughly debunked his "lecture", btw.
ETA: if you want to hear Lazar's "UFO Line" radio show from that same period, which they paid to have on a local Vegas radio station, check out my Youtube channel

I am using the term loosely. I know he was just standing in front of a camera with no audience but it's a "lecture" in the sense that he's pretending to give a detailed description of how the alien craft works.
His science speak is layman, the concepts are ridiculous blends of our science and he simply does not speak like a gravitational physicist. The alien tech also just happens to use 2 current popular sic-fi concepts of the time (antimatter and wormholes).
He blends in a few facts anyone could learn from a pop-sci book like light speed, distance to the closest star and so on.
He doesn't even begin to explain how they could ever know that the strong force was acting as gravity A or why Lazar was so sure that "gravity is only a wave, not a particle, that's silly"….when all quantum phenomenon have wave/particle duality? Actually the strong force does have a part ice - the gluon - and he says that gravity A IS the strong force so it would clearly have a particle associated with it, the gluon.
He misunderstands Einsteins predictions of gravity waves for gravity actually being a wave. At one point he said "this is how a gravity wave effects space-time", not realizing that gravity is the curvature of space-time. He never mentions general relativity (modern theory of gravity) and he simply is not a physicist.

On Rogan he did not mention one single sentence from that entire lecture. He just said "we don't understand the tech". But he did claim to understand the tech in the video because he went over all the basics.

originally posted by: JackFrostvc
a reply to: FosterVS
Did Lazar pay to have UFO Line on the radio station, or did the radio station pay Lazar?

Apparently Lazar and friends paid to have their "show" on the radio station. A whole 5 episodes. I am thinking they were hoping to get picked up and syndicated, ride on Art Bell's coattails, but that never transpired.

I have looked at the bob lazar story more than a few times over the decades and instead of starting a new thread i decided to give my two cents on this one.

first the obvious question.. do i think he is telling the truth?
i honestly dont know, but i believe there is more evidence to say yes than no.

first..
can the government "erase" your past?
the clear answer is YES.

the best example is project MK ultra.
here is a program that involved universities, medical facilties and prisons IN TWO COUNTRIES (USA and Canada).
Involved hundreds (if not more) people/victims
involved THOUSANDS or more people from doctors, nurses, orderlies and support staff of all types.
it even had a congressional investigation.
we KNOW an order was given to destroy all government files and the ONLY A FEW survived my mistake.
yet we have damn little hard "proof" but people testimony that it existed and only a small (but scary) amount what was done.

so how is it harder to "erase" one man?

two..

his name IS in the los alamos phonebook as an employee in the science division.

you dont just get your name in that phonebook if your a server in the lunchroom much less called a scientist.

three

no degree from the school..
i admit this is a hard one to counter EXCEPT we do have cases in the military of people on "secret" projects that even to this day are "denied" and you have a hard time proving it
much less appear on a DD 214 .

along with now the critics saying (backtracking IMO) that "well he did work for XX company, but not YY company he claimed"
ignoring they said "HE NEVER WORKED THERE AND NO EVIDENCE HE DID"

along with (especially back then) if the government told you "if you reveal this you will be fined, put in jail and/or disappear" you believed it.

how many "black detention facilities" do we have yet today?

four

the element 115 isnt as he claims

well first he was talking about it decade or more before it was added on the periotic table
how can he be a fraud back then but some scientist now says it exists?

but even more is this idea
atomic energy, medicine and weaponry has at its base element uranium mined from the ground.

an element that took YEARS of experimentation (yes rapidly advanced due to WWII) to get to the tech we have today.
with plutonium being created that DOES NOT EXIST ON EARTH.

with more than a few dead ends in refinement to get to elements we use today (again including plutonium)

now take 115. just because we have not found how to make it stable or form to use as power source doesnt mean some advance race/alien didnt and we are trying to "reverse engineer" it .

be no different than back in say 1940s someone dropped off a piece of plutonium from a "craft" and we didnt have the knowledge to make it from uranium.
if someone claimed as lazar did "hey we got the plutonium and it makes a great power source" but we are trying to create it ourselves.
we call him a crackpot
when it was "created" by us but not yet in usable form due to our limitations but "maybe in the future" it can be.

does that mean that person who found it the craft was "a fraud" or the government would be hiding it?

now we have 115 is listed and has potential, but we cant harness it yet confirmed.

we have a phone book with his name listed in a facility that doesnt allow any smuck to work there .
A w-2 that has been said cant exist but yet no hard proof its fake
much less IRS criminal charges for faking their forms.

now as for his "criminal charges"
one is pandering/prostitution..
that is kinda laughable given that outside of city of LV and the county its in PROSTITIUTION IS LEGAL in the rest of the state. so (while i dont support prostitution) all it means is his "trist" was on wrong side of the line.
the second is "dangerous chemicals across state lines".. but the reality is he had HOME MADE FIREWORKS.
again while stupid/dangerous hardly a big time offense and hardly (again while dangerous) some "big federal illegal chemicals".
notice in both not serious prison time.. hmmm

Some say if he broke his secrecy oath why they let him stay around (be "mysterious disappearance/accident or criminal charges). because either
A they dont want the heat of a "martyr"
b. its easier to try to make him look like a fool (sound familiar)

now the big kicker he listed sites that the government claimed didnt exist in some details / locations NOW CONFIRMED.
true underground we cant say one way or the other but how could he give back then pre internet and google earth (btw usually block out that area) such info if he wasnt there?

then the now confirmed he gave location and time for people to see some tests at night from the now banned viewing locations?
i again dont think someone who had not been there could give out that info.

so where does that leave us?

taking into account all past and now new information , the odds he was telling the truth is greater than not.

scrounger