A question the left won't answer?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: chr0naut

Executive Power is duty to execute and enforce the laws passed by Congress.

So, if it is a law, that corruption is an illegal act, then it is the duty of the President to enforce that law.

Article 2, section 3 of the Constitution outlines the Presidential responsibilities. Clause 5 is the only one that speaks to "taking care that the laws be faithfully executed". This clause states that the President himself must obey the law and makes no sense in any other context.

In the three branch governmental system, the Judicial branch is not supplanted by the Executive and therefore this clause cannot be misread to infer that the President must preside over the operation of the Judicial branch. That would be overreach.

Take Care Clause Law and Legal Definition - USLegal.com

I think you are also misunderstanding something, it is not the duty of the President to enforce our laws in other countries, but to enforce ours laws as it applies to US Citizens who interact with other countries.

That is incorrect. The President of the US has no authority over other sovereign states. Nor does the office adjudicate law or police the same. Those are the responsibilities of other departments, the law enforcement of respective states and of the Judicial branch.

So, it is the duty of the President to investigate the actions of Joe and Hunter Biden, as it pertains to interactions with Ukraine. Joe Biden overtly bragged about withholding foreign aid, in direct contradiction to Congress, (the same thing the House is now charging Trump with) who had authorized that aid to be given, in order to get the Ukrainian prosecutor, who was investigating Hunter Biden’s affiliated Ukrainian company, Burisma Holdings. The question is, was this prosecutor corrupt? and doing something illegal. OR, was he doing his job, investigating the illegal activity of Burisma Holdings, and was getting too close to the illegal activities of Hunter and Joe Biden?

The President should have delegated this to his Attorney General.

The fact that Hunter Biden, or more correctly, his company and associates were paid so much money, despite having so little experience in the area, lends credence to the fact that something illegal was happening.

So is every President is corrupt because their experience as President of the US is lacking in their first term? Nah.

Hunter Biden was a Yale Law School graduate and had run a number of successful banking and investment companies. He had three years experience on the board of Amtrak, he also worked with other international energy companies in deal negotiation including CEFC China Energy. He had significant experience.

a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

originally posted by: toolgal462

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: loam
The real irony is that if ever there was a Democratic presidential candidate uniquely vulnerable to the same kind of investigation abuse and rigor endured by Trump, it would be Biden.

How does that saying go? Be careful what you wish for.

The Democrats have trashed our constitution and placed on its head nearly every convention of American political governance in an attempt to get Trump. If they think a President Biden will now be immune from all of these precendents they've set over the last 4 years, then they truly are more delusional than even I have given them credit for.

If you believe in karma, and Biden wins the presidency, those next four years will be a master class lesson in what goes around comes around. Only I doubt Biden will survive any of it.

Please elucidate, in article and clause, where the Democrats have trashed the Constitution.

Watch Kenneth STarrs testimony or Alan Dershowitz. Both have spoken at length about this today. Youtube will have it.

So, if you have watched it, you can quote section, article and clause, where the Democrats have trashed the Constitution?

I mean that everyone keeps saying that they have trashed the Constitution but when you ask for details, no one responds.

So therefore, accusing the Democrats of trashing the Constitution is just some sort of meaningless 'sloganism'.

Others can quote from the Constitution where Trump has failed his Presidential oath (which is also in the Constitution Article 2, Section 1, Clause 8).

Trump vs. the Constitution: A Guide - Politico

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

It could only be better than what you have now, that's why.

a reply to: network dude

We have proper channels for the justice dept to enlist the assistance of other counties. It cant be that difficult or time consuming since the ukraine govt has already managed to get our justice depts assistance in investigating the surveillance of the ambassador in ukraine.
Instead of using those channels, trump sent over rudy and his two now indicted buddies there and, it's pretty obvious by the text messages and emails that the result was to throw the whole diplomatic process into chaos, at the least. At the most, he broke a few laws in the process.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: network dude

but does it negate the entire process regardless of the method used?

Yes, as you might recall from any number of cop shows (or cases tossed out of courts.) FindLaw has a nice summary of this: criminal.findlaw.com...

I suspect that some readers are not aware that it's actually a violation of the 4th Amendment of the Constitution: en.wikipedia.org...

Fourth amendment right exclusion if the trump administration can keep up investigating Biden corruption and Prove that there was a crime.

In Segura v. United States (1984),[170] the Court ruled that evidence illegally found without a search warrant is admissible if the evidence is later found and legally seized based on information independent of the illegal search.[171]

a reply to: chr0naut

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

Just how much power would Hunter have to call in an Airstrike or setup a black ops? With his dad's connections Hunter does look to be more involved with keeping the drugs and weapons flowing. As a channel to get any important messages to Obama it is generally safer to keep this stuff in the family.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

It could only be better than what you have now, that's why.

What I have now is OK (not optimal, but OK).

I definitely have a reasonable quality of life, here:

Quality of Life Index by Country 2020 - Numbeo

originally posted by: network dude
I know I have asked it a few time, and never seen a response. But perhaps others have and there is a reasonable answer to this.

Question:
If any evidence exists that Either Joe Biden or Hunter Biden did ANYTHING corrupt while in Ukraine, anything at all, would't that totally negate the impeachment, and all the arguments over what Trump did or said? If corruption exists, or existed, his asking that it be looked into would not only be important, but necessary.

If that idea is off base, I'd love to hear why.

Fruit of the poisonous tree

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: chr0naut

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

Just how much power would Hunter have to call in an Airstrike or setup a black ops? With his dad's connections Hunter does look to be more involved with keeping the drugs and weapons flowing. As a channel to get any important messages to Obama it is generally safer to keep this stuff in the family.

It would depend upon the ability to communicate securely between the US and Hunter Biden, and upon motivation.

Ukraine is at war with Russia, so I suppose arms would be 'flowing' there. However, public ownership of guns is somewhat controlled in the Ukraine. They don't have a right to keep and bear arms.

As for drugs, it's prevalence of opiate use is towards the top of the table, as is the US:

List of countries by prevalence of opiates use
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

It could only be better than what you have now, that's why.

What I have now is OK (not optimal, but OK).

I definitely have a reasonable quality of life, here:

Quality of Life Index by Country 2020 - Numbeo

Your fellow citizens don't agree with you on that. I've read it here.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

It could only be better than what you have now, that's why.

What I have now is OK (not optimal, but OK).

I definitely have a reasonable quality of life, here:

Quality of Life Index by Country 2020 - Numbeo

Your fellow citizens don't agree with you on that. I've read it here.

Far more ultra right wingers who aren't NZ'ers or Australians seem to have comment on our politics and lifestyle, on ATS.

I can't speak to what others say, only myself and I don't have any major issues with either of our two leading parties. I do however have preference for some of the policies of the smaller parties.

And then there is the recent fires which have ruined our reasonably clean air and, in Australia, a significant section of the environment.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

It could only be better than what you have now, that's why.

What I have now is OK (not optimal, but OK).

I definitely have a reasonable quality of life, here:

Quality of Life Index by Country 2020 - Numbeo

Your fellow citizens don't agree with you on that. I've read it here.

Far more ultra right wingers who aren't NZ'ers or Australians seem to have comment on our politics and lifestyle, on ATS.

I can't speak to what others say, only myself and I don't have any major issues with either of our two leading parties. I do however have preference for some of the policies of the smaller parties.

And then there is the recent fires which have ruined our reasonably clean air and, in Australia, a significant section of the environment.

Really? Are you saying most here are Red State?

a reply to: chr0naut

Ukraine is at war with Russia

Things are a bit more complex than that in Ukraine. Sure Russia is one influence in the region, there are others when stuck next to NATO as well. With the USA getting control of the energy industry in the area it is a big sign of who won that one.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: Pyle
a reply to: Alien Abduct

2 U.S. Code CHAPTER 17B—IMPOUNDMENT CONTROL

He didnt notify congress of the hold per the law because he was trying to use it to pressure Ukraine and if it got public it would ruin his plans.

Interesting. Why didnt the Democrats cite this law in there impeachment proceedings? In fact not a word of "quid pro quo"....why is that?

Because abuse of power if a far larger issue, bribery (which is one type of quid pro quo) is what the is accused of and well as failure to comply with congressional oversight.

Also, if you read the law their is no criminal penalty only civil for failure to comply and then that is only to get the money moving.

Ok if there is no criminal penalty....what is the point? And that was IF th emoney was not moving which was done before the 45 days in session.

The 45 days is for congress to decide if the hold is to be upheld or not. The president is supposed to notify congress when the hold first happens.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

It could only be better than what you have now, that's why.

What I have now is OK (not optimal, but OK).

I definitely have a reasonable quality of life, here:

Quality of Life Index by Country 2020 - Numbeo

Your fellow citizens don't agree with you on that. I've read it here.

Far more ultra right wingers who aren't NZ'ers or Australians seem to have comment on our politics and lifestyle, on ATS.

I can't speak to what others say, only myself and I don't have any major issues with either of our two leading parties. I do however have preference for some of the policies of the smaller parties.

And then there is the recent fires which have ruined our reasonably clean air and, in Australia, a significant section of the environment.

Really? Are you saying most here are Red State?

Yes. The majority, at least of the most vocal.

But it changes over time, too.

Hey Network Dude you are not a political guy get back to what you love.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: chr0naut

Why don't you guys elect Hunter Biden for President? I mean, he knows the score over there.

Why would I elect an American President?

And Hunter Biden was working for Burisma before Joe Biden pressured them to get the anti-corruption ball rolling.

Burisma obviously thought there was some advantage to them getting Hunter Biden on the board. He was supposed to have been hired to help with corporate governance best practices after Burisma's founder had been alleged to have involvement in money laundering.

It could only be better than what you have now, that's why.

What I have now is OK (not optimal, but OK).

I definitely have a reasonable quality of life, here:

Quality of Life Index by Country 2020 - Numbeo

Your fellow citizens don't agree with you on that. I've read it here.

Far more ultra right wingers who aren't NZ'ers or Australians seem to have comment on our politics and lifestyle, on ATS.

I can't speak to what others say, only myself and I don't have any major issues with either of our two leading parties. I do however have preference for some of the policies of the smaller parties.

And then there is the recent fires which have ruined our reasonably clean air and, in Australia, a significant section of the environment.

Really? Are you saying most here are Red State?

Yes. The majority, at least of the most vocal.

But it changes over time, too.

Hey, I've been around a very long time and it is not changing to this day, just saying....I am an eyewitness over 40 years. Actually. hate is increasing...imagine that.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: chr0naut

Ukraine is at war with Russia

Things are a bit more complex than that in Ukraine. Sure Russia is one influence in the region, there are others when stuck next to NATO as well. With the USA getting control of the energy industry in the area it is a big sign of who won that one.

Ukraine and Russia were once allied but in February/March 2014, Russia invaded and annexed the Crimea at a time when the Ukraine was in Revolution and divided against itself.

The Ukrainian government needs allies like the US to oppose the larger and stronger Russia, who has already shown their expansionist intent.

The UN has affirmed the Ukraine's sovereignty and labelled the annexation by Russia, illegal. Many countries and companies still regard the Crimea as Ukranian.

So, yes, the situation is very complicated. Especially in regard to the Ukraine and Poland effectively being a barrier between Western Europe and Russia.