Inside the horrific, inhumane animal markets behind pandemics like coronavirus

originally posted by: Waterglass

I spoke with several who work in that plant and they said that you obviously are affiliated with a group aligned with PETA.

I have no affiliation with any such group, but find it interesting that you jump to that conclusion because I asked for photographic evidence of the chicken heaven where your wife works.

Looking at the Wikipedia page on PETA, they appear to be a pretty moderate animal welfare campaigning organisation.

originally posted by: Waterglass
So why is it that these same organizations in the UK and USA don't protest those in the Government assigned to maintain laws in the chicken industry such as OSHA or the FDA or USDA?

The ASPCA piece I linked to above was criticising both the weakness and lack of enforcement of government regulations. They're not a protest group.

Bwick - we're privileged to have a small clutch of three year old chickens roaming the garden by day, wrecking the lawn and digging up the flower beds. At night they retreat to their fox-proof quarters. They're curious little creatures with individual personalities. This morning we had four delicious eggs.

However, as they get older, they lay fewer eggs and will spend the rest of their lives with us as non-food producing pets.

For this reason, commercial egg producers have to destroy their birds within the first couple of years of their lives. Whether those short lives are utterly miserable depends on the farm. As we've seen, eggs labelled 'free-range' is no guarantee of cruelty-free. I understand that organic is better.

a reply to: EvilAxis


So you want a picture. So laws don't apply to you. PETA or others? That's why I asked as to why these groups don't go after the government Agencies charged with enforcement of laws, cleanliness including cruelty against animals? Why? They would get quick results. In USA we have OSHA, FDA, USDA, IRS and others. Under the assumption the thing wasn't staged. PETA isn't a government agency.

I have no affiliation with any such group, but find it interesting that you jump to that conclusion because I asked for photographic evidence of the chicken heaven where your wife works.

Why I, no sir, the several current employees did. All I did was to write you back.

So instead of using $1.5 million dollars in donations to save animals plight they script a Super Bowl 60 second commercial of animals paying homage to former NFL San Franciso quarterback Colin Kaepernick. Seems quite a political statement instead of helping animals doesn't it.

So are they using the animals as a ruse and actually misappropriate the donations to overthrown institutions rather than helping animals?

NewsOne

“PETA is challenging speciesism, which is a supremacist worldview that allows humans to disrespect other living, feeling beings and to treat their interests as unimportant,” says PETA President Ingrid Newkirk in a press release. “Our patriotic Super Bowl spot envisions an America in which no sentient being is oppressed because of how they look, where they were born, who they love, or what species they are. It sends a message of kindness—one that the NFL should embrace, not silence.” The ad renders problematic. Why? Because Kaepernick’s movement is a specific one. So basically, PETA pulled an All Lives Matter, or an All Animals Matter, making an issue that disproportionately affects Black and Brown people all-encompassing. And of course, folks on Twitter are not having it.

I hope they are investigated by the IRS as their actions on the behalf of animals seem to be a bait and switch ruse as a PAC [Political Action Committee] in my opinion.

Enough.

a reply to: Waterglass

Spent some time in Hong Kong when i was younger, never had any problems with the food, who knew chicken feet were so tasty. Absolutely loved the street food and never seen any problems with the preparation or cooking method. Granted i was eating in the more affluent restaurants and hotels most of the time. I'd imagine in rural China things are different but in my own experience the food in HK was absolutely spectacular.

originally posted by: Waterglass

So you want a picture. So laws don't apply to you. PETA or others?

I'm sorry, I didn't understand that comment. Are you saying it is illegal to provide a photo?

originally posted by: Waterglass
That's why I asked as to why these groups don't go after the government Agencies charged with enforcement of laws, cleanliness including cruelty against animals? Why? They would get quick results. In USA we have OSHA, FDA, USDA, IRS and others.

None of those organisations have a policy on animal cruelty, so why would they 'go after government agencies'? As I said, the ASPCA does petition the government on animal cruelty regulations and enforcement.

As to why such cruelty to chickens is permitted, as I said, it's because we don't see it. You don't even accept it is happening. So it's not surprising there's so little pressure to end it.

Free range is a con. There’s no such thing as an ethical egg

Warning this gets a bit graphic

I have lived there for 12 years.

I have visited meat markets like the ones in this thread maybe 6 times while there. And those times were in the countryside. In big cities these markets exist but usually they are in suburban areas, very old areas, or poor areas.

They are as dirty as you think they are, maybe more. I don’t know you but can guess.

Street restaurants are common in China and I used to visit them a lot in my first few years there. I ate meat sticks and drank beer with local and foreign friends. Much of this meat comes from those markets.

Years later I paid the price. I developed an h pylori infection in my stomach. H pylori is naturally occurring in your stomach, you actually need a small amount it. But when exposed to unclean and/or undercooked meat you can develop an h pylori excess. That leads to infection, ulceration and stomach lining rupture. That’s exactly what happened to me.

I woke at 3am feeling like someone stabbed me in the stomach and I vomited dark red blood on the floor. Not like a lot of it but a good quarter mouth full. Wife and I rushed to hospital via taxi with me in front seat spitting out dark blood every so often. Knowing they may make me wait to see a doctor (common in China) I built up a good volume of blood in my mouth, got out of taxi in front of emergency room door and spit it out right in front of the door.

Needless to say I was put in a wheelchair and right into ER. I was on IV drip and then had a camera put into my stomach to check. They found the ulcer and my bloodwork showed the h pylori had hit my bloodstream. I had to stay in hospital for 3 days and for one day I had a tube down my throat and couldn’t sleep coz of that.

My primary care doctor at that time was German, he told me directly that the meat at those street restaurants most likely had been the cause. He said about 50% of long term foreigners in China who consume bad meat even occasionally develop the problem I had. He had lived in China for about 15 years at that time.

a reply to: EvilAxis


CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21

PART 118 -- PRODUCTION, STORAGE, AND TRANSPORTATION OF SHELL EGGS


Look. Guys and organizations have chased companies for years while it’s the governments who can affect and induce change to Industry Standards within several years. You want change go to the Inspector General’s Office of the USDA, FDA, OSHA and file a complaint. Where are the Unions? Petition those federal agencies and committees in charge to change the increase of Cage size, buildings, environment, air quality etc.

That’s assuming a “whistleblower” has something and the movies are legitimate. Overall, it seems to me the latter.

I know the federal system and that's where we are at on this issue.

I also understand it’s so fun to run around in a soft job for life, make movies, cry, be accountable to no one and protest for this and that for change that may come after 30 years instead within several years if one simply fills out a form and follows up. Oh too much hard work? Well so put that Liberal Arts or Political Science Degree to work.

But that's the con, "they" don't fill out the forms so we can continue our crusade for decades. It’s fun.

a reply to: Grenade

I spent two weeks in Hong Kong and stayed in a "Westernized" hotel. Also stayed in Shanghai "Westernized" hotel. Excellent. Food was excellent. However, we also took a boat ride on the Hong Kong Harbor early on a Saturday morning.

Have you ever done that because you will know what I am talking about.

Yikes

a reply to: EvilAxis

Yes, a picture is illegal.

Here's another link for you:

Current Recalls and Alerts This page contains summary data on ACTIVE recall cases involving FSIS-regulated food products.*

Plus we need to Ringy Dingy the "mouth" in Sweden. I men really? Meatballs?

FSIS Issues Public Health Alert for Swedish Meatball Products Due to Misbranding and an Undeclared Allergen | En

originally posted by: Waterglass

Yes, a picture is illegal.

Well that's odd, isn't it? I can imagine your egg factory might forbid employees from taking pictures (lest a competitor stole their secret of good chicken husbandry), but you say it's illegal?

So now we get to the crux of the matter.

Between 2011 and 2017 Iowa, Missouri, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, North Carolina, and Arkansas enacted ag-gag laws. In many of
these states, the new legislation followed a recurring pattern: an animal rights investigation uncovered evidence of illegal animal abuse, shocking footage was shared with the public, and the industry sought legislation to prevent future documentation. While early ag-gag laws protected animal enterprises only, a new breed of ag-gag has dropped the “ag,” criminalizing whistleblowing across industries and targeting environmental data collection in particular.

Center for Constitutional Rights

The Ag Gag Laws: Hiding Factory Farm Abuses From Public Scrutiny

HF 589, better known as the "Ag Gag" law, criminalizes investigative journalists and animal protection advocates who take entry-level jobs at factory farms in order to document the rampant food safety and animal welfare abuses within. In recent years, these undercover videos have spurred changes in our food system by showing consumers the disturbing truth about where most of today's meat, eggs, and dairy is produced. Undercover investigations have directly led to America's largest meat recalls, as well as to the closure of several slaughterhouses that had egregiously cruel animal handling practices. Iowa's Ag Gag law -- along with similar bills pending in other states -- illustrates just how desperate these industries are to keep this information from getting out.

The original version of the law would have made it a crime to take, possess, or share pictures of factory farms that were taken without the owner's consent, but the Iowa Attorney General rejected this measure out of First Amendment concerns. As amended, however, the law achieves the same result by making it a crime to give a false statement on an "agricultural production" job application. This lets factory farms and slaughterhouses screen out potential whistleblowers simply by asking on job applications, "Are you affiliated with a news organization, labor union, or animal protection group?"

As this Huff Post piece says:

If factory farms were treating animals humanely, like nearly all purport to be, there would be no fear of whistleblowing; there would be nothing to blow the whistle about. There’s only one reason for destroying transparency: to hide something. As animal advocacy groups like Mercy For Animals have reported, most farms greatly exaggerate or flat-out lie when it comes to how well their animals are treated. This is why the agricultural industry has lobbied so heavily for ag-gag laws; they want to make it illegal for the public to see what they’re doing.

a reply to: EvilAxis

Well that's odd, isn't it?

No it isn't odd. Anyone can take pictures for business but not for personal use. Its that way anywhere I have ever been on business including USA, Canada, China, Mexico, Germany, UK and The Netherlands.

So now we get to the crux of the matter.

The crux of the matter your simply being disingenuous along with HUFF POST and in my opinion exhibit criminal intent and behavior. Fill the forms out and roll on.


All employees can blow their company in individually or as a group as a confidential whistle blower to the respective IG office for the federal agency that has jurisdiction.

originally posted by: Waterglass

No it isn't odd. Anyone can take pictures for business but not for personal use. Its that way anywhere I have ever been on business including USA, Canada, China, Mexico, Germany, UK and The Netherlands.

You're just making this up. Please quote the law which makes it illegal for your wife to take a photo in the egg factory. Hint: most of the ag-gag state laws have been ruled unconstitutional. The earliest one was defeated a few days ago:

Nearly 30 years ago, Kansas became the first U.S. state to make it illegal to take photographs or record video footage inside a factory farm “with the intent to damage the enterprise conducted at the animal facility”—enacting the first “ag-gag” law, a law targeting whistleblowers of animal abuse. This week, the United States District Court for the District of Kansas struck down nearly all of this law, saying it violated the First Amendment.

Jan 28, 2020

originally posted by: Waterglass
All employees can blow their company in individually or as a group as a confidential whistle blower to the respective IG office for the federal agency that has jurisdiction.

Sure - most who work at these places cannot afford to lose their jobs, then watch the federal agency take no action.

Unfortunately, rarely is anything done unless pictures and videos are made public. Video shows abuse of hens at farm that provides eggs to Walmart, Publix, ARM says

a reply to: EvilAxis

I am making this up? So I can come over to your home or business without being invited, enter the property, open the door and take pictures?

Trespassing for one.

Plus, each business has its own Policy's and Procedures which are legal documents and dos and dont's for employees, suppliers, visitors and customers. I have been in 1000's of companies all over the world conducting audits' including ISO 9001. Every organization had Policy's and Procedures that prohibit trespassing and stealing company property and information including taking pictures with prior approval.

This thread was about China and the root cause of a potential Pandemic that as already killed 100's of people, specifically Chinese. However you hijacked it and put it on a spin cycle. Why?

I can only surmise that your role here is that of a "sleeper cell" to protect the interests on behalf of the Government of The Peoples Republic of China.

It wasn't mentioned that along with other barbaric practices in the industry the Chinese are known for also choking their chickens and now thus comes out:

Chinese cannibalism of infant flesh outrages the world

So how do you feel?

a reply to: Waterglass

It wasn't mentioned that along with other barbaric practices in the industry the Chinese are known for also choking their chickens and now thus comes out:

Chinese cannibalism of infant flesh outrages the world

So how do you feel?

Apart from the link (which is not evidence) do you actually have proof of this? And if you do, do you have proof that a lot of Chinese people are taking these pills?

a reply to: Jay-morris

No, they outsourced them to another country. You need to read the article.

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: Jay-morris

No, they outsourced them to another country. You need to read the article.

Both cases are wrong, and goes to show that people will believe anything. The pills you speak of were not babies, but newborn placenta.
This was used for the documented practice of human placentophagy.

Also, this urban legend grew when performance artist Zhu Yu claimed that he prepared, cooked and ate real human bodies, including fetuses, as an artistic performance. The actual performance was called "eating people"

So what we have here is a mix of urban legend, and just plain old BS in afraid.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Lets all jump on the bandwagon to protect China. Good one Jay.

originally posted by: Waterglass

I am making this up? So I can come over to your home or business without being invited, enter the property, open the door and take pictures?

Trespassing for one.

You said your wife works there. We're not talking about trespassing.

originally posted by: Waterglass
Plus, each business has its own Policy's and Procedures which are legal documents and dos and dont's for employees, suppliers, visitors and customers.

Of course they do. They may have a policy of no photography, but it does not trump First Amendment or employment rights.

In fact recording of any kind, photographic or voice, has to be allowed baring some valid legal or business justification. Having a policy in your employee handbook that prohibits employees recording company meetings or conversations with employees is in violation of the NLRA according to the decision of the NLRB in a case against Whole Foods.

Can You Prohibit Employees from Taking Photos At Work?

The First Amendment right:

the high court has said “to achieve First Amendment protection, a plaintiff must show that he possessed: (1) a message to be communicated; and (2) an audience to receive that message, regardless of the medium in which the message is to be expressed.”

Photography and First Amendment

It is precisely because the law permits whistleblowers (or anyone else) to take video and photos that factory farms pushed for the ag-gag laws.

originally posted by: Waterglass
This thread was about China and the root cause of a potential Pandemic that as already killed 100's of people, specifically Chinese. However you hijacked it and put it on a spin cycle. Why?

The topic is "the horrific, inhumane animal markets behind pandemics like coronavirus". As I said in my first post, possibly the only good thing to come out of this is the closing of those markets.

Because you and others seemed keen to promote a myth that the horrific, inhumane practices were uniquely Chinese, I cited a current example in the UK and several in the US. The difference in the West, as I said, is that we hide it.

I'm not part of a sleeper cell trying to defend the appalling animal abuse in China, nor affiliated with any animal rights group. I continued to post about animal cruelty in our food industry because you, despite being presented with evidence, want to pretend it doesn't exist, while steering the topic back to China.

You claimed everything's great at the 'free-range' egg farm your wife works at, so I asked for some evidence. Instead, you made false claims about the law. Do you have a vested interest?

Animal cruelty in food production is an international issue. This Utah farm, owned by Smithfield Foods, was bought in 2013 by Shuanghui International, one of China's largest meat processors. Glen Greenwald reveals the active role authorities play in stifling the truth:
The FBI’s Hunt for Two Missing Piglets Reveals the Federal Cover-Up of Barbaric Factory Farms

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: Jay-morris

Lets all jump on the bandwagon to protect China. Good one Jay.

What? Instead of admiting you were wrong, you say because I do not believe this BS story, then I am protecting China? Are you saying we should all believe BS stories, as long as it makes the country look bad?

You are American. So should someone hate America, should they believe all the BS news and articles that look at America in a negative way, just because they hate America?

There is a difference in posting facts, and posting BS about a country and believing it because you hate the country.

At least admit you were wrong and move on!

a reply to: Jay-morris

At least admit you were wrong and move on!

No Jay. You exhibit and condone criminal behavior and especially love to protect China.

習近平會愛你很久

Xíjìnpíng huì ài nǐ hěnjiǔ

a reply to: EvilAxis

To another supporter of China!

習近平會愛你很久

Xíjìnpíng huì ài nǐ hěnjiǔ