Did China's New Plague Really Start In An Illegal Animal Market?

a reply to: flice

This is in the last hour. Very disturbing, especially the doctor on the telephone pleading with his superiors to let him go home to see his family.

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: flice

This is in the last hour. Very disturbing, especially the doctor on the telephone pleading with his superiors to let him go home to see his family.

DAMN!!! Yeah this is serious!! Start Prepping!!

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It's interesting, because this was my thought back on the 22nd.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: DOcean
Does a cold that progresses into pneumonia lay you out in the street, generally speaking? No. Hemorrhagic Fever does though...

Another poster claimed that they saw images of people face down in the street in a pool of blood.

Hemorrhagic fever.

I think the pool of blood thing is probably fearmongering, there were some videos posted in another thread and I saw people falling over but didn't see pools of blood. In any case I agree with your point here and I think it's important. This virus is affecting a fraction of people more than others, some people don't even get a fever whereas others seem to experience something that looks like a Hemorrhagic fever.

Before I present my conspiratorial take on this, I just want to make it clear that the fearmongering doesn't help, if people think this is some sort of doomsday virus they're going to pack the hospitals even if they have a common cold, and it's going to spread faster. It appears the vast majority of people will recover after a few days, it's really only older people who are at risk of death and it's probably the fever which is the real threat to them.

Once again I must point out that 10 days ago an unknown illness in Barbourville, Ky has college student quarantined. Just a few days before the Wuhan virus outbreak this student was showing symptoms of a hemorrhagic fever so he was quarantined, despite not having left the country recently. He was tested for rare viruses such as Ebola since only a few viruses cause hemorrhagic fevers, however they found nothing and it was declared a false alarm.

As for the number of people sick, what is it like 800 now... lets just put those numbers into context a little bit. Here are a few of the numbers from an outbreak I followed back in 2011. An unknown virus was causing large numbers of students to get sick and in some cases they were being sent to the hospital. Keep in mind nearly all of these outbreaks happened within the span of a month. There were also more outbreaks in other schools around the same time but these are the largest:

Beartooth Elementary School, Billings, Montana - 8th Sept
- around 230 ill in same day

Falcon Middle School, Colorado Springs, Colorado - 6th Oct 2011
- at least 160 ill in same day

Orange Unified Elementary Schools, Orange County, California - 12th Oct 2011
- at least 128 ill in same day

Pittsburgh Montessori School, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - 27th Oct 2011
- at least 157 ill in same day

Honea Path Elementary School, Anderson County, S. Carolina - Oct 27 2011
- at least 80 ill in same day

Alcott Elementary School, Hastings, Nebraska - 28th Oct 2011
- more than 80 ill in same day

All Worth County Schools, Worth County, Missouri - 28th Oct 2011
- at least 260 ill in community

Platte River Elementary School, Benzie County, Michigan - 2nd Nov 2011
- more than 100 ill in same day

Joy Elementary School, Sioux City, Iowa - 2nd Nov 2011
- more than 85 ill in same day

That's already well over 1000 students yet towns and cities weren't locked down, the schools however were closed and fully sterilized. What I find strange though is how a common gastrointestinal virus could send young healthy kids to emergency care. Most of the students recovered fine in a few days but some reacted very badly to the virus, just like the Wuhan virus. It was referred to as an "unknown virus" but it was suspected to be Norovirus, however I didn't see any conclusive test results to prove what the virus was.

Fast forward to two months ago and you can understand why I was quite intrigued when I saw a thread titled Mysterious virus shuts down every Colorado school in this area, reporting that "All 46 schools in a Grand Junction-area school district will be shut down on Thursday and Friday as an unknown virus continues to spread among students and district employees" and it had the exact same symptoms, causing them to think it was a highly contagious form of Norovirus, however it was reported that the test results for Norovirus came back negative.

"We are taking this highly unusual action because this virus is extremely contagious and spreading quickly across our schools," district nursing coordinator Tanya Marvin said in a news release. "In addition, it appears that there is now a second, related virus that is affecting students, some of whom have already been ill in recent weeks. The combination of the two has created an unprecedented spread of illness."

So not only is it one virus, they suspect a mix of two different viruses, and I'm not an expert but isn't that one of the main ways viruses can mutate and mix together? Lets remember that this outbreak happened around two months ago, then on the 14th of this month a student was quarantined showing signs of a hemorrhagic fever, then a few days later the Wuhan outbreak occurs. As I've said before, I don't want to jump to conclusions but that's an awful lot of coincidences.

On page 3 of the thread we get a first hand account of a student being hospitalized:

originally posted by: frugal
Wednesday night my child threw up at college four times at a University near Greenville and Clemson SC. He went to urgent care Thursday morning. He had two IVbags, antibiotics, and anti nausea pills issued to him. A girl was also in there with the same symptoms. We feel he got it from the campus food court spoons and tongs people use at the buffet.

On the same page there's also an interesting post from a teacher about the virus mutating. Keep in mind these posts were made late November last year.

originally posted by: Phoggy
I've been a lurker a long time but created an account for this. I live in Grand Junction and it's been crazy. I'm not sure why they say it only lasts 12-24 hours. The people that have it, including me, are taking at least 3 days to feel normal again. It could be norovirus, our health department is trying to get stool samples to verify it. Until then, they just say it appears to be norovirus I'm a longtime teacher and I've never seen a bug spread this fast. I'm glad we shut the schools but afraid of what the holidays will bring.
---
We are hearing it's the same one [not two viruses], just evolved now with added fever (oh yay!) People that finally had gotten over the first are now getting this one. Our hospitals are limiting visitors. They are sending messages telling people to limit contact. Yet, we still have our huge "Lighting up Main Street" event tomorrow. Odd choices are being made.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I posted an account of Spanish Flu. In severe cases, it did cause people to cough up blood or bleed from the nose or even ears. And the description was "pouring" not just bleeding.

So if the virus attacks mucus membranes of the respiratory tract that badly, then they will bleed and possibly quite profusely. You don't need to make it worse by freaking out over hemorrhagic fever.

Husband's company put out an internal travel advisory today.

They do business globally with large markets in Asia.

They're advising no travel that can be avoided to the region. The information they put out is a bit more technical than standard as they are a pharma/bio-tech firm, but it's essentially no different than what the rest of the usual sources are providing.

They advise that no one who is older or has underlying health conditions be sent to the region if travel must occur. That anyone who goes make full visits to dentist and doctor to ensure good health prior, and to take all the standard precautions to avoid a contagious cold or flu -- don't touch, don't be around many other people, don't stick around people coughing or sneezing, wash hands, use hand sanitizer, don't touch your face, weary a mask -- with a few added in like avoid animals, animal markets, don't eat blood, and make sure all your food is well cooked.

They advise that as there is no specific treatment, you do your best to stay hydrated with plenty of electrolytes.

Of course, one would hope you never had to be sent in the first place -- the first piece of advise.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

So if the virus attacks mucus membranes of the respiratory tract that badly, then they will bleed and possibly quite profusely. You don't need to make it worse by freaking out over hemorrhagic fever.

I'm not sure these sentences make sense together, what you're saying is a lot freakier than anything I said... anyhow, I'm not freaking out over it, I'm pointing out the fact just 10 days ago a student was quarantined in the U.S. because he appeared to have a hemorrhagic fever, and not long before that there was a massive outbreak of an unknown virus or possibly two viruses which mixed and evolved, causing over 40 schools to be shut down, the first time they've ever shut down every school in the district.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I posted an account of Spanish Flu. In severe cases, it did cause people to cough up blood or bleed from the nose or even ears. And the description was "pouring" not just bleeding.

So if the virus attacks mucus membranes of the respiratory tract that badly, then they will bleed and possibly quite profusely. You don't need to make it worse by freaking out over hemorrhagic fever.

I can see a victim of coronavirus bleeding, even profusely... but I would expect it to happen with a victim that has already sickened to the point of not being ambulatory.
The videos of people keeling over while walking down the street and having blood running out of their nose/mouth is concerning.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Not really.

Respiratory viruses dig into the mucus membranes lining your respiratory tract, either up into your sinuses or down your throat bronchial tubes and into your lungs.

Part of our misery is because of the destruction they bring to those cells, and part is because of the body's immune response. I've gotten bloody discharge from sinus infections and last time I had a cold, I got a random nosebleed from the battle and irritation.

Hemorrhagic fevers just plain melt your insides. That's way worse.

a reply to: butcherguy

People would go down suddenly with Spanish Flu and gush blood like that. It was extreme, but it would happen.

If you've every had the flu, you know how fast you can go downhill. Start out healthy and an hour or so later, you want to die. Spanish Flu was flu on steroids because the disease was fast and our immune reaction was equally fast and out of proportion. Between the two, you died.

to be honest the one we saw with blood .... the person fall on the CONCRETE ground, yeah that usualy produce some blood sometime

China is disgusting.

Communist authoritarian government with appalling human/animal rights (no rights) and a long history of horrible atrocities, foreign and domestic; up to and including mass genocide.

The dog and cat meat trade. As if that isn't bad enough. They can't just kill them and be done with it. No, they have to make an entire festival out of blatant torture. I read about bat soup, not sure if it's true but I would not be surprised.

I don't know all about the specifics of this but I do know a couple of things. One, whatever the CDC and MSM are telling us about it is less than half of the story and two, riding the subway to and from work over the past decade has taught me a lot - when the Chinese start wearing masks and gloves it's time to expect an outbreak of some kind.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

Hunger is a powerful motivator. What do you think motivated people to figure out how to eat so many of the plant substances we do? You know how many would kill us in most of their regular forms, right? So before you dig on someone's regional cuisine ... like bat ... consider at some point, someone was likely starving.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes I agree - hunger can motivate people to do horrible things. But will power can be just as powerful. Have you ever fasted? after the first couple of days you don't feel hungry anymore. Aside from the garbage they eat and the disease that comes out of that country I have a big problem with them for a lot of other reasons.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Hemorrhagic fevers just plain melt your insides. That's way worse.

That's not quite the case, severe cases of Hemorrhagic fevers can cause bleeding but what I'm reading says its rare to die from blood loss and the severity of the symptoms depends on the type of virus. Basically it's just a more intense type of fever which has other symptoms commonly including nausea, fatigue, muscle aches, headaches, vomiting, and diarrhea. They thought the student who was quarantined recently had Ebola because he was showing symptoms of a Hemorrhagic fever and Ebola is one of the only viruses we know which causes that type of fever, but the tests found nothing and he was cleared so I doubt he had internal bleeding.

You're probably right though, we shouldn't call it a Hemorrhagic fever because that might give people the wrong idea, and it doesn't seem like a typical Hemorrhagic fever, it's more likely a collection of symptoms which create that impression together, especially in older people who are unable to handle the fever combined with the other symptoms. We know there is a fever aspect to the Wuhan virus but it doesn't affect everyone the same way, however it does have the ability to knock down a percentage of the population, making it look like a Hemorrhagic fever in some circumstances. That's really the correlation I was trying to establish, I'm not saying people are bleeding internally.

I’ve never seen China quarantine cities before or been seen to be spraying cities with disinfectant. I also don’t believe for a minute that the death toll is only 80 people. Probably times that by 1000 and you get a closer figure to the truth. The biggest problem now is that the genie is out the bottle. This virus is already in most cities in Europe and Asia and in the US. If this virus really is a nasty escaped pathogen then the memes about a serious pandemic every 100 years are bang on the money.

a reply to: On the level

WHAT IS GOING ON IS NOT NORMAL!!!!

I think this is a weaponized version cornavirsus that escaped the virology lab in Wuhun.

People think..... You do not "lockdown" 30,000,000 million people over 26 deaths and 800 infected....

.

a reply to: celltypespecific

You do when its already out in other country's, especially as it spreads as quick as it has been.

Does anyone find it odd that this outbreak started just as the Chinese and Trump administration came to a phase one negotiation over their trade war? And that it also coincides with the Trump impeachment trial?

From the last two days of Senate trial opening statements we already know that the President only cares about the big stuff (stuff that affects himself of course) and what's bigger than his ouster from office. We also know Trumps MO is to use his foreign counterparts to create a media circus that benefit him.

So an engineered out brake of a scary looking virus at the same time the impeachment trial is underway? Sounds like a small piece for the Chinese to start the process of rolling back tariffs.