Democrats Feeling the Bern!

a reply to: TheRedneck

Still, if Joe Biden is not a leader in the polls, the entire impeachment case falls apart! Joe Biden must remain the front-runner! If Bernie pulls away from him, which seems likely now, there is no impeachment.

Mitch's absolute kangaroo process (to cite Jeremy here) already made clear that there will be no impeachment. This isn't about Biden, and it aint new news that establishment Dixiecats are afraid of anything like Sanders, or more precisely, afraid of the grassroots "socialist" movement behind him.
However. This might be interesting for you guys:

DONALD TRUMP’S IMPEACHMENT trial is already unfolding as a Mitch McConnell-coordinated farce. This week on Intercepted: The charges against Trump are serious, but they raise the question of why Congress has never impeached a president for war crimes. None of the three Senate trials of a president was for imperial crimes committed in plain sight, despite a long history of presidents invading countries, killing civilians, and torturing prisoners. Constitutional and international law scholar Marjorie Cohn discusses the trial of Trump, the refusal of lawmakers to prosecute war crimes, and presents the case that Trump should be impeached for assassinating Iranian Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani in Baghdad. This month marks 29 straight years that the U.S. has been bombing Iraq. Joe Biden, who proactively aided and abetted the Bush administration’s drive for war, has been openly lying about his record, but Bernie Sanders also has some serious questions he needs to answer about his own support for regime change, missile strikes and deadly economic sanctions. Jeremy Scahill and Sam Husseini, of the Institute for Public Accuracy, present a thorough history of both candidates’ records on Iraq over the past three decades.

BERNIE SANDERS, JOE BIDEN, AND THE REWRITING OF IRAQ WAR HISTORY

originally posted by: ambassado12
a reply to: TheRedneck

It would be fun to watch Trump vs. Bernie although Trump would easily win. I wouldn't want to see my 401k and home prices crash and burn if Bernie wins. hahah

Do not underestimate Bernie hes been around along time and hes not stupid. In a debate with Trump at the very least he will hold his own. I cant say the same for Biden because if he was debating Trump all those gaffs will be brought up. Out of the democrats Bernie probably has the best chance to win.

a reply to: TheRedneck

And the bummer about being able to give staff applause...

You are absolutely correct that Trump is riding the wave of populism. And anyone that thinks for a second that wave is over, look no farther than the gun grabbing resistance in Virginia and Ohio. Absolutely a populist movement. If you think it is just people playing militia and whispering boogaloo, oh boy are you misinformed. My fault I suppose because I haven’t wrote that thread yet.

a reply to: TheRedneck

When he first hit the debate stage I applauded him. What a swath he cut. His ''vorpal blade when snicker snack.''
I found his words refreshing. We had not heard some of the things he was saying on a public political main stage before. I was not naive enough to think that what he was saying pertained only to the Republicans. Because for one, at that time I was a Republican. Then I switched my registration. I switched to vote for Sanders simply because he was not Clinton.

I"m not in favor of radicalism now. I don't think we can get to the radical future envisioned by the progressives from where we are now, nor do I want to see a continuation of the radical selfishness that is Donald Trump. My best hope at this point would be for a moderate Dem to win the nomination and for Trump to be put out of the way and have the Republican's nominate a sound conservative candidate. Let the issues stand on their own instead of the cultishness being exemplified on the right by Trumpians and on the left by Sandernistas .

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I disagree with you on that point, although it appears we both want the same final outcome. The infection is still there; it would be foolhardy and masochistic IMO to stop the treatment now. We will need four more years of Trump... at least four more years. No, I am not calling for a third term, but I am saying if the corruption we are seeing today is not removed, at least to the maximum practical, by the time Trump is done, we may need someone else with a similar... abnormal? for lack of a better term at the moment... mentality. My fervent hope is that four years more will be enough. I do admit a desire to return to a more 'normal' political process and leave all this anger behind us. I just don't see that actually being feasible yet.

When one has an infection, a typical treatment is to prescribe antibiotics. The patient is always cautioned to take all of the antibiotics, even though they may feel better and think they are not needed. The reason for this caution is that if treatment is removed too soon, the infection will be lessened but not cured. It will return, and this time it will be resistant to the antibiotics used and require even harsher treatment.

So is it with corruption. It is just now starting to show signs of lessening, but it is certainly not gone. If we stop the treatment now by exchanging Trump for someone more palatable, we will have not only gone through the last four years for naught, we will have to use an even harsher treatment, an even more offensive President, in the future if we wish the country to survive in any form resembling what the Founding Fathers envisioned.

I do not wish that. I prefer to finish what we have started.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I am saying if the corruption we are seeing today is not removed, at least to the maximum practical, by the time Trump is done, we may need someone else with a similar.... My fervent hope is that four years more will be enough.

This impeachment attempt will neuter the Trump Whitehouse from any further efforts to investigate corruption ... Trump won't run the risk,,, the Dems in the House would have to investigate...It ain't happening...

a reply to: Infoshill

I wouldn't go that far. Lindsey Graham, in response to the constant dismissal of the possibility of Ukraine interfering in 2016, has launched a Senate probe into Ukraine corruption focusing on Burisma and Biden.

He announced it this morning.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Infoshill

a reply to: TheRedneck

I am saying if the corruption we are seeing today is not removed, at least to the maximum practical, by the time Trump is done, we may need someone else with a similar.... My fervent hope is that four years more will be enough.

This impeachment attempt will neuter the Trump Whitehouse from any further efforts to investigate corruption ... Trump won't run the risk,,, the Dems in the House would have to investigate...It ain't happening...

that is why the dems will not get to keep the house
they have greatly overplayed their hand
they will lose on a large scale in nov of 20

a reply to: TheRedneck

Oh do I wish I could believe that Red. But to me, the corruption is not just political, it's systemic. To me, corruption is part and parcel with cronyism,and this is what surrounds Trump. Stick by me and I will give you power. Can we agree that placing Rick Perry as Sec. of Energy was nothing but cronyism? He couldn't even remember the name of the department he wanted to abolish during that speech and had no experience in that field at all. But pledging himself to be loyal to Trump got him the position.

This permeates government both sides of the isle. It permeates big business as well, likely more so.

I hate to say this because I have little to back it up but I will say it anyway. Recall the revolution in Russia a century ago? It had great ideals and great hopes. It hoped, or at least the hope sold to the peasants was that ''they'' would have control in their socialist democracy. They would own their own means of production. But the hard part was the transition. The transformation from the oligarchy of the Tzar to peoples Republic. That was the hard part. First would be needed that strong central state, the Communist State as the transition, that blunt instrument to wipe out the corruption of the capitalist and monarchist power structure first. And when in that period, it was taken over by an authoritarian who was seen by many as being the strong leader to keep it going. And the others around him in the power structure? Even though they had been warned against allowing Stalin to grab power by Lenin himself, that was allowed and we know the rest. And then they all cow towed to his drum beat.

And on the other side of the street we also know how so many of the major industrialists soon after that supported and financed Hitler because they saw him as a strong man to fight off the advances of communist expansion. Now this is where this gets sticky. Stalin needed to be held back but in so doing, that support spawned a mad man. Toss into El Duche who was supposedly a ''workers champion'' who really was not and we see what happened there. Another strong man. First the trains ran on time and then....

I have no faith in ''blunt instruments''. And I know that this is how so many who support him see Trump.
And just to extend this sense of mine Red, In my youth I believed in blunt instruments. I seldom mention this here but I even joined a fundamentalist cult because it promised all the final outcomes I thought our world needed. After four years I pulled myself out of it, just barely, and spent the next decade studying about cults and authoritarians and such trying to understand how I had been taken in. (I keep in touch with the goings on there as it has evolved over the last 50 years and believe me, their madness has grown exponentially in their attempts to justify what they hold so strongly to. )

I found that the tell tale signs of would be cult leaders were not limited to religious or spiritual types, but that the tendency to authoritarianism was present through out our culture. Now this may be my own paranoia I admit, but the examples of devotion to the leader we have exemplified by those mentioned above drive my caution when I even smell a whiff of it. And I'm smelling it now.

I"ve learned over the years how easily I have been pulled in this direction and that. Even with that experience, that warning I gave myself back then. Coupling this with my observations on the malleability of the general population in regards pop culture and marketing and political persuasions it is not off the chart for me to consider, highly, the possiblity that what I am seeing now in the Trumpian phenomena is very akin to those examples.

Currently I am reading a book titled ''Fantasyland'' How America Went Haywire. Written in 16 it chronicles the last 500 years of fantasy thought from the establishment of the colonies to the present time. While I recognize that it is the authors perspective, and his biases, his observations and judgments are all encompassing. In comparing my own thoughts with those pointed out from our American past he has offered me excellent room for introspection on my own thinking. It is a book that challenges a reader to a high degree of suspension not only of disbelief but believes as well. Interestingly, he has coined the term, '' The Fantasy-Industrial Complex'', a term that I had brushed upon myself in my own attempts to categorize our present culture.

Enough from me now Red, I often tend to listening to much to my own expounding as has been pointed out to me often here in these forums. Thanks for sticking with me in this discussion.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I don't think we can get to the radical future envisioned by the progressives from where we are now, nor do I want to see a continuation of the radical selfishness that is Donald Trump.

I see Trump as a narcissist at times but selfish not so much. The guys donated his paychecks to help others, thousands of others, how many other Presidents have done that?

I think he genuinely wants to help the citizens of this country and put them first, which for some of us is a very welcome change from past administrations. Odd thing is......every time he tries to do good for the citizens of this country he’s met with extreme opposition from the left, although it maybe something the left wanted a week before, WTF is up with that? How can people defend that kind of behavior?

The past administration didn’t listen to what the citizens wanted, they listened to who was pushing their next agenda to obtain absolute power and control. We’ve been witnessing this front and center in all its glory for almost 4 years now. The dem party doesn’t even hide the fact anymore.

So when you say Trump has a case of “radical selfishness” I think you may want to look at the outright blatant selfishness of the Party you constantly defend and do a moral inventory of party and maybe self. When you have to manufacture lies and manipulate people and information to deceive the populous for the sole purpose of obtaining power and getting your way. I’m going to go out on a limb and say, most everyone is going to see that as an extremely selfish and self serving display of action.

The dems new campaign slogan may as well be “Our Way or the Highway”. Just saying.