Trump Impeachment Thread

ATS brothers and sisters -

I'd like to start a thread to capture thoughts and opinions during the impeachment process. The impeachment has begun and there have been some interesting points worth discussing as they relate to the integrity of our Democratic Republic.

This is NOT the mud-pit, so behave and post appropriately.

I'm very interested in those that are following along, have questions, don't understand the references to laws or the Founders in context, discuss the reasons for why our government is designed the way it is.

You are free to talk smack about politicians and what they are saying, but please, not each other... we are all humans at the end of the day.

My first point for discussion is why there has been such a heavy emphasis from the House managers to introduce more evidence if they stood at the podium for the last 2 months saying their case is air tight? Why not just present what you have if it's such a strong case? The rules and procedures are formalities, it doesn't change the nature of the impeachment trial. Thoughts? Let the good times roll!

~Namaste

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

The impeachment has begun

Incorrect. Impeachment already happened.

This is the trial.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

The impeachment has begun

Incorrect. Impeachment already happened.

This is the trial.

This is a dog and pony show.

Waste of money and time.

a reply to: Liquesence

Like I said... impeachment has begun. (for real)

~Namaste

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

The impeachment has begun

Incorrect. Impeachment already happened.

This is the trial.

The IMPEACHMENT trial...no?

When is President Trump going to go on offense? Any guesses WHEN and WHAT FORM it will take?

Adam Schiff is very theatrical and it feels like he's trying to sell his acting skills, not an actual crime on merit.

Nothing I have heard so far indicates something criminal that violated the jurisdiction of the Presidency. Pushing the boundaries is what the Judicial branch is for. Hearing the House managers openly state that they couldn't wait for the process to be followed, needed urgency to vote on the impeachment resolution and then held the articles for a month... reveals a lot about motivations to the average American, regardless of what they present.

If someone at work talks bad about you to everyone around them, but other people you work with don't see it as substantiated or see it differently, it wouldn't look good on that one person if they started making things up and exaggerating facts that everyone else can see and read on their own. That's what this is like.

Someone trying to get you fired because they suck at doing their job and want yours.

The facts being presented so far seem superfluous and vacuous of criminal substance worthy of impeachment at all, let alone removal from office.

~Namaste

My thoughts are, that while actual stuff happens around the world, the less informed will be glued to their preferred pundits, ready to ohhh and ahhhh at cleverly spokeen word salad and sound bytes sold to them by the Global Engagement Center scripted theater. Unfortunately, this damn soap opera never seems to be over and as has been for the past four years now, will simply feed into the next weekly cycle of orange man bad/good weekly hate.

Welcome to 2020, where we do not just indulge in two minutes hate EXACTLY when and where and at who we are programmed to direct it at, but it goes all week long until the next "aha! Gotcha!" story followed up by "not so fast! What about this!". And even though we already know this is literally the exact formula we are suppos d to follow on queue, we participate anyways believeing we do so freely.

I think that was maybe a rant

a reply to: carewemust

I think he's playing his hand close to the chest...

My guess is that there will be a string of exculpatory facts presented.

A good offense is a good defense, so he may not have to go on the offensive just yet. There is plenty of evidence that he had a right and a time period to hold aid to Ukraine, evidence that there was significant enough corruption in Ukraine to ask for cooperative investigations that resulted in the loss of US taxpayer money through corrupt Ukrainian businesses, evidence that the President instituted a foreign policy that took away money from foreign entities and vetted those decisions more discriminately. These are all well within the power of the Executive, as is denying the House access to any information it wants - those are decided by the Judiciary.

If people spend the time to educate themselves on our laws, this is about the Constitution as the House has stated over and over... but it's not about the abuse of the Executive, it's about the overreach of the House, and there is only one good outcome to this impeachment for our country IMO.

~Namaste

a reply to: worldstarcountry

My thoughts are, that while actual stuff happens around the world, the less informed will be glued to their preferred pundits

Actually , the less informed will be glued on who is mad at who on one of the "Reality" shows .
They don't have time , or the will , to get informed.
Added to your Rant.

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne


Why no witnesses though...?

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne
CNN was just discussing if Adam Schiff's credibility has been ruined in the eyes of "vulnerable" Republican Senators. The experts there now agree that Schiff's history of stellar integrity will win over those Republicans to his side.

It is possible that Collins, Murkowski, Romney, and a couple others are gullible-stupid like that.

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

Makes sense. Let the Democrats expend all their ammo over Wed/Thurs/Fri, then Sat/Mon/Tues, Republicans go on OFFENSE. They're doing that a little today, but with no info that we don't already know.

Regardless of what SCHIFF would have you believe in this case .... Apparently defying congressional subpoenas is a time honoured tradition... Schiff is a virtue signaling hypocrite . He'd have no problem with it if it was his guy doing it...

The Obstruction of Congress charges should be thrown out on it's face, it's not even worth debating...

Obama administration defied congressional subpoenas

Attorney General Eric Holder defied a congressional subpoena to furnish documents about Operation "Fast and Furious," a program to attempt to trace gun trafficking along the southwest border that went awry.

The Obama administration said disclosing information about executive decision-making would "inhibit the candor" of officials inside the administration

Bush withheld stuff on that grounds many many times.

Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

At this auspicious beginning of the Impeachment Trial of the Century (so far, stay tuned) we are blessed with two days of rhetorical meanderings before:
* the Senate looks at the charges and
* realizes that substantiated or not, the allegations do not rise the level required for removal from office,
* vote along party lines - and then
* get back to the work of ensuring Trump's Legacy with more Judicial Appointments until 2021,
** regardless of who wins the election.

AAAand if POTUS wins in 2020 - We'll all settle in for a Peach Ment rerun or two until 2025 - and at least one more SCOTUS nominated.

ganjoa
(on the other had there could be backlash, in which case NVM)

a reply to: odzeandennz

Nobody has said no witnesses, yet... it is to be determined by the rules of the Senate, and those rules were voted on today which is to decide to hear witnesses IF they decide there is the need AFTER both sides have presented their case. It's a waste of time to hear from witnesses if the charges are so weak, that no additional testimony is going to change the course of the trial. They will decide on that after the House has presented their "air tight" / "open and shut" / "undeniable" allegations and evidence.

The House is responsible for getting witnesses. They did get witnesses during the investigation, however, they didn't want to use the Judiciary to get access to specific documents and people, as is provided to the Executive branch when there is a dispute between them. Those cases usually get expedited. The House did not want to follow that. In their own words they said "we couldn't wait for the Courts..."

That's scary. That they would make allegations without the needed evidence. That's an extremely manipulative and underhanded way of trying to overreach Constitutional power.

~Namaste

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

I think he's playing his hand close to the chest...

That would be a very good strategy.
The other side has blabbed nearly all they have , and making stuff up , to the press to garner popularity .
They "telegraphed" their moves too soon.
Bad move.
They have failed in their expected end result.
Trump's popularity is still good and has suffered no consequences .
Now , they have placed themselves on the defensive way too soon desperately trying to cover for many repeated "lies" as folk are asking for proof.
Something they had not planned for .

If Trump holds his hand and the Senate does their due diligence , in their time , the Democratic Party is all done.
I predict a total collapse save for the Progressive Liberal Socialist Democrats that will remain in the Party.
Their takeover plans will be complete , and the Democratic Party will become a "Third Party" .
Shame , too, as I used to be a proud "True Blue Democrat".
Used to be.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

You sound like you are out of popcorn...

Excellent rant..

Peace

I am pacing the cage, waiting for the Dem’s to present a charge that makes since. So far I’m unimpressed and just plain bored.

I am not watching or following it I am busy working. It just appears to me to be a distraction. Trump, is not a good ole boy politician that is why he gets stuff done. Not being part of the clique, they are prejudice towards you. So here we have the impeachment.