Time to Care

a reply to: Ahabstar

This will be a little long post so hang in there.

I'm trying, but I don't think I see your point.

Wealth and poverty are incentives when nothing else matters. You will work harder to better yourself. Just the same as you will work harder to avoid being hungry.

We have two people literally sitting on a pile of cash, watching this happening from Outer Space as we speak. And they will probably agree with me that this isn't a question of skills, merit or ambition, but rather one of inheritance.

However, I do agree with you that wealth (and poverty) could be a direct result of your actual efforts in life. Dope concept, it's a pity we just deceived ourselves with that. Back to the drawing board?

a reply to: Edumakated

I have a 6s because it still works. Does that mean I qualify for Section 8 housing and free food and utilities now?

a reply to: PublicOpinion

The point is that the system has little to do with the outcome, unless the system prevents an outcome.

Car factory could be a pizza place making pizzas. It could be a bait and tackle shop or a lemonade stand. If you can profit under the system, someone will take the risk. And you may fail, lose your money. But what incentive would I have if all profit was null and void?

Why would a pizza place be better than just gathering eggs? Why would digging a ditch be better than gathering eggs? Or building a house? Where is the incentive to be anything other than there under a different system? Go back to my previous post about grain mills under different systems.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

That's total BS, we have homeless ppl walking around in every city.

I can't believe you haven't noticed them.

We have homeless DRUG ADDICTS and mental cases... no amount of money will get those folks off the street. They can't function in society.

Stop being emotional and use some logic.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

If you saved $10,000 a day since the building of the pyramids in Egypt you would have one-fifth the average fortune of the 5 richest billionaires.

Exactly, nothing has changed. There were a few rich people that were able to build the pyramids, and nothing has changed.

My belly is full, I'm warm, I'm happy, Life is good!

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

The OP mentions the world not just the US.

If you die from malnutrition, dirty drinking water, lack of medical care etc, and these things are caused by poverty, then yes poverty very much is responsible.

Many of those people are in poverty because of failed political systems. Dictators, wars, cultural issues, etc. It has nothing to do with that Bill Gates has $100 billion. Of course, it is ironic because he is actually a huge contributor to helping many of those impoverished countries.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

That's total BS, we have homeless ppl walking around in every city.

I can't believe you haven't noticed them.

We have homeless DRUG ADDICTS and mental cases... no amount of money will get those folks off the street. They can't function in society.

Stop being emotional and use some logic.

We also have homeless who are legless or paralyzed and no one cares about their struggle.

Some don't drink or do drugs at all.

But let's lump everyone together, blame them for something, and use that to justify allowing 3,000 ppl to own 95+% of all property worldwide?

That's twice now you're factually wrong in your justification process.

You were wrong about everyone having a car, now you're wrong about all of them being on drugs.

Instead of admitting a factual error in your judgement, you doubled down and cited even more prejudiced myths to back your policies?

It seems like you're refusing to acknowledge the bitter harsh truth...

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: PublicOpinion

If you saved $10,000 a day since the building of the pyramids in Egypt you would have one-fifth the average fortune of the 5 richest billionaires.

Exactly, nothing has changed. There were a few rich people that were able to build the pyramids, and nothing has changed.

My belly is full, I'm warm, I'm happy, Life is good!

Bread and Circuses ran Rome, and it runs the world today.

I hope you're not supporting this pitiful method of governance, it's the source of our many problems not the solution.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

There are two truths about people that socialists will not acknowledge but proof of them is everywhere throughout history.

1. All people are not equal
2. People are motivated by selfish desires.

Because of these two truths - socialism can never work.

Income inequality is the normal order of things - it should not be allowed to get out of control - and that is a function of government to provide a level playing field to competitors to have a fair chance to compete.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

That's total BS, we have homeless ppl walking around in every city.

I can't believe you haven't noticed them.

We have homeless DRUG ADDICTS and mental cases... no amount of money will get those folks off the street. They can't function in society.

Stop being emotional and use some logic.

We also have homeless who are legless or paralyzed and no one cares about their struggle.

Some don't drink or do drugs at all.

But let's lump everyone together, blame them for something, and use that to justify allowing 3,000 ppl to own 95+% of all property worldwide?

That's twice now you're factually wrong in your justification process.

You were wrong about everyone having a car, now you're wrong about all of them being on drugs.

Instead of admitting a factual error in your judgement, you doubled down and cited even more prejudiced myths to back your policies?

It seems like you're refusing to acknowledge the bitter harsh truth...

Nothing I said is factually wrong. You just don't understand basic statistics and math.

First, I didn't say EVERYBODY. There are always outliers. However, it doesn't change the fact of the majority with my characterization.

Here is a good video that helps you understand my point about poverty in the US. Almost every one in the US has running water, electricity, clothing, food, refrigeration, indoor toilets, etc. Yes, there are some examples where someone may not have those things but 99.9% of people in the US do...

The standard of living in the US is so high that our poor actually have a higher standard of living that middle and upper classes in most countries.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

The OP mentions the world not just the US.

If you die from malnutrition, dirty drinking water, lack of medical care etc, and these things are caused by poverty, then yes poverty very much is responsible.

Many of those people are in poverty because of failed political systems. Dictators, wars, cultural issues, etc. It has nothing to do with that Bill Gates has $100 billion. Of course, it is ironic because he is actually a huge contributor to helping many of those impoverished countries.

Individuals Gates or any billionaire isn't responsible, and Gates has probably done more than most to alleviate poverty.

Criticising the system that generates such massive wealth disparity isn't the same as criticising the individuals that benefit.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Car factory could be a pizza place making pizzas. It could be a bait and tackle shop or a lemonade stand. If you can profit under the system, someone will take the risk. And you may fail, lose your money. But what incentive would I have if all profit was null and void?

I dunno, pizza? I mean.. you're still hungry and in dire need of pizza when you want some.

What's the real value of all those profits in the stock market compared to a good pizza? We better ask a few cooks how they feel about incentives, some people still enjoy to simply make a good pizza.

I don't think it's fair to assume one would need incentives for anything, do you need an incentive to stay alive when you could simply try not to die?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

The OP mentions the world not just the US.

If you die from malnutrition, dirty drinking water, lack of medical care etc, and these things are caused by poverty, then yes poverty very much is responsible.

Many of those people are in poverty because of failed political systems. Dictators, wars, cultural issues, etc. It has nothing to do with that Bill Gates has $100 billion. Of course, it is ironic because he is actually a huge contributor to helping many of those impoverished countries.

Individuals Gates or any billionaire isn't responsible, and Gates has probably done more than most to alleviate poverty.

Criticising the system that generates such massive wealth disparity isn't the same as criticising the individuals that benefit.

Why would you criticize a system that allows people to earn a ton of wealth that they can then give away?

Socialism has people standing in line for bread....

Capitalism has bread waiting for people....

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

That's total BS, we have homeless ppl walking around in every city.

I can't believe you haven't noticed them.

I was homeless, married and had children. I met other homeless too and we shared tips on how to get food or sympathy money. Some were mentally insane, others like my husband were paranoid schizophrenics.

I and my children are doing much much better in life now because I made the choice not to play the game of homelessness and hopeless victim. Socialism screams all poverty is due to victims with no control or choice. That is absolutely BS.

Poverty is not the end...it is a beginning. Don't be suckered in by the lassaiz fair BS that some try to manipulate and keep you down. They are not your friends when they tell you that you are a victim and have no control due to circumstance.

It is not easy...tough choices and dedicated working goals have to be made...but it is worth it in so many more ways than being a billionaire! A lot of homeless have just given up since everyone has given up on them.




Edit add: when the first person called me out on my victimization attitude...I thought she was the biggest B*tch in the world. Then, I realized the truth. It changed my whole world and circumstance. I remember her above all others and don't even know her name. Yet, every time even years later, I send blessings her way. She was an angel.

If you want to fix the wealth inequality, you need to first look at the system that built the billionaire class.

Capitalism isn't perfect, and you can tell because it has crashed and burned many times, and rebuilt itself to become stronger. Somewhere in it's reconstruction socialist ideas were thrown into the mix, otherwise pure capitalism would just end up back to the days of when Charles Dickens and Karl Marx were displaying and bringing to light the underlying truths of what the capitalist lifestyle and methods of keeping the working class down can do.

Unfortunately, this most recent rebuild of capitalism involved the global free market, and it's on it's way to crash again. The symptoms are there, and one of them is, yes, massive amounts of concentrated wealth, and people starting to look for scapegoats to blame their economic issues on.
Either way, doesn't matter what economic system you choose there will always be an 'elite', I guess at the end of the day, it's how those elites carry themselves, or if the system they thrive in learns from history to not let them get carried away.

Even in Marx's world (excluding Communism) there was still a bourgeoisie, it was just very small and limited.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Why do you care so much? Have they personally interfered with your lives?

Show me on the doll where the bad billionaire touched you ...

22,000 children's die a day from poverty, but as long as its not affecting you personally...

No, 22,000 children die from things that occurred while they were impoverished... big difference. If someone is poor but killed by a dictator, it wasn't the poverty that killed them.

Most of the developed world - US in particular, really has no true poverty. No one in the US is living in tin huts, favelas, distended bellies, lacks running water, electricity, etc.

Poor in America means you drive a 20 year old car and may have an Iphone 6.

The OP mentions the world not just the US.

If you die from malnutrition, dirty drinking water, lack of medical care etc, and these things are caused by poverty, then yes poverty very much is responsible.

Around the world poverty exists due to government overreach and policies. Most poverty stricken areas is due to tyrants controlling their populace through governmental bs.

Poverty is less in nations that allow the poverty stricken to become entrepreneurs without regulations.

a reply to: CynConcepts

I just don't understand how 1 guy can own the whole forest and mountain range and make it trespassing to walk around and explore nature. I was born on this planet too.

I don't want socialism. It's the worst possible idea, I agree.

I just think we could curb the Monopoly a bit and not funnel all Earth's resources into a few private hands giving them all the power.

$$$ = Power

So really everyone supports the few having all the political power cuz they can buy it while voices like ours hold zero weight.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Ahabstar

This will be a little long post so hang in there.

I'm trying, but I don't think I see your point.

Wealth and poverty are incentives when nothing else matters. You will work harder to better yourself. Just the same as you will work harder to avoid being hungry.

We have two people literally sitting on a pile of cash, watching this happening from Outer Space as we speak. And they will probably agree with me that this isn't a question of skills, merit or ambition, but rather one of inheritance.

However, I do agree with you that wealth (and poverty) could be a direct result of your actual efforts in life. Dope concept, it's a pity we just deceived ourselves with that. Back to the drawing board?

If I have money to hand off after my passing to my children, why is that a bad thing? It will be their own choices on whether to spend it impulsively or invest so they can pass it on.

Every individual should be taught to handle their money wisely. Unfortunately, this is no longer taught in public schools.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

The first question of every enterprise is will it make money, break even or lose money. That answer determines a whole lot as to whether you go forward or not.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: CynConcepts

I just don't understand how 1 guy can own the whole forest and mountain range and make it trespassing to walk around and explore nature. I was born on this planet too.

I don't want socialism. It's the worst possible idea, I agree.

I just think we could curb the Monopoly a bit and not funnel all Earth's resources into a few private hands giving them all the power.

$$$ = Power

So really everyone supports the few having all the political power cuz they can buy it while voices like ours hold zero weight.

I own property in America. There is a stipulation regarding the mineral and water rights access below my property. That is regulation set by the government. I and no one else will ever own their property 100%. The government still will be taxing you and you will lose it if you don't pay.

Folks with money savviness are not the problem...governments over regulating, taxing, and controlling society are the problem. They tried to soothe the populace about your complaint by securing national forests and wild lands....yet they still kept control there too.
don't be angry at your neighbor...get pissed at how the government is screwing you over and vote for change.