Killing Qasem Soleimani The Good The Bad and The ugly

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: FredT

Thanks for reminding me - I did think it was in the 'Mud Pit' when you started in on Trump.

That being said - I wasn't referring at all to his Tweets - but his actions.

Thanks again

No worries, Trump is fair game in and out of the pit. Plus he is not to blame for the situation in the middle east. As I said in the OP the blame stretches back to Truman (and you could make a case earlier than that) Bush and Obama should have and could have taken him out much much earlier.

I have no issue with the use of force or killing this terrorist as I said in the OP. I do however have issue with the notion that we can keep bombing away our trouble with little or no long term plan. Its getting worse and the bombs away mentality is not working and each iteration of these radicals gets worse and worse.

Muslim Brotherhood - Mujahadeen - Taliban - Al Quada - ISIS....... Whats next?

a reply to: FredT

We have no plan other than bombs away

How do you know there's no plan?
Are you in the Pentagon or the State Dept?
Didn't President Trump say we would no longer advertise our plans like previous administrations?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: DBCowboy

I hear you but the Middle East is a disaster and and we will spill more of our own blood into those sands.
We need a different approach

The Middle East is a disaster because we're not fighting a country like Germany in WWII, we're fighting an ideology.
And in all reality, we've been fighting it since the Middle Ages.

SAY IT: Radical Islam is a REAL sick warped interpretation of the Koran by those seeking domination/power over and control of the masses.
SAY IT: Communists will not share power with a spiritual God concept (THEY HAVE BECOME GOD) and disallow any other "false" doctrines.
SAY IT: Organized Religion wants your devotion in order to steal your money/soul for nefarious reasons: POWER GRAB.

a reply to: Cancerwarrior

Patton was brilliant at military tactics. Outside of that, not much else in his brain. No tact socially, pissed off a lot of people. When he lived in Hawaii he shot the neighbor's cat for crapping on his lawn to put things in perspective.

I'm a retired 20 year Veteran, USMC and Army officer and can tell you for a fact, no way in hell he would be an officer in today's military and I truly wish that was not the case. I would have loved to do some of the things he did but it's no longer allowed. Probably wind up in a Federal prison.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets
Those that went through Marine Corps boot camp from the years 1775-1973 (representing the Presidents Own) had a noble experience. I cannot speak for post 1973 training methods.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

He also believed that he was the reincarnation of every great warrior from Alexander the Great on up. He was pretty foul mouthed and definitely rough around the edges kind of guy as well as a little crazy.

It’s obvious when you read any of the old accounts from the soldiers in the BigRed One that they loved the guy. Contrast that with a terrorist general whose “army” follows his orders not because they love him but because they’re scared to death of him.

OP seems to think that the death of this Iranian general is going to somehow galvanize the people of Iran even more against the US. I’m pretty certain a great many of them are relieved he was made into a grease spot.

a reply to: FredT

Seems to me like the answer is to rally around our own country and leadership, becoming United again like we used to be. If you're facing an enemy that is unified and believes their cause is worth dying for, you merely convince your own side that our cause is worth killing for and then flex the muscles of superior force.

IF Suleimani was as potent an asset to Iran as you believe, then we took a stride towards crippling them by sending him to Hell. I see nothing but value to the US in his death.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: FredT

This is one topic I fail to have an unemotional response to.

I just can't. I spent my service career actually helping the injured.

Never fired a weapon, spent all my time trying to make our soldiers live. My MOS was science/medical related.

So when one of the masterminds that created so much ####ing work for me takes a dirt nap, then all I can do is celebrate.

I hope there is a Hell and he is rotting in it.

Also, I hold in low regard anyone who has defended this disgusting piece of offal because of the blood, sh#t, piss, tears, I have had to wade through to save our men and women soldiers.

Sorry bossman, but this is one topic I am very emotional about.

Im sure glad I didn't have to go to Viet Nam. I was real scared for awhile. My dad went for a land invasion in Japan, and we dropped the bombs when he was half way there. He was a medic. I wouldn't have been born if we didn't drop the A bombs. I don't think he ever fired his weapon either

Thank you for your service

a reply to: FredT

The regn and it's resources belong to the people of the ME,therefore no other country/corporation has a right to be there without invitation...I think the best policy for the US is to withdraw the forces and leave the internal affairs of the area to themselves and avoid a long harsh expensive war which eventually will kill a lot of innocent people and economically drain all parties involved if not all the world...None of this would have been necessary if we had clean cheap eternal energy like sun.wind etc...

a reply to: FredT
Don't expect a conventional war from Trump. He is anything but conventional.

Great OP and nice objective overview. Can't disagree with anything posted.

One thing that may end up in either the good or ugly pile is whether his replacement has the clout to keep the various terror and millitia groups Suleimani supported in line.

Yesterday's attack on the Green Zone was done without the backing of Iran by seemingly rogue militants from one of the brigades who quickly released a press statement condemning those responsible for the attack. It's uncertain as of yet whether this was due to them not recieving the stand down orders from Iran or isolated militants actively ignoring Iranian orders.

My guess is the majority of the groups will wither and die off as it's nigh on impossible for someone to achieve the local military and political influence Suleimani had, but an isolated number who do remain will see a spike in more militant, guerrilla terror/jihadi attacks and be far less predictable and harder to fight as Iran no longer has the abiliity to call them to eel when needed.

Hopefully I'm wrong and saner minds prevail.

A group of people with a cause like theirs can indeed make them crafty, and all that i have seen so far they have played the US in more ways then one, for how much i despise their leadership i cannot help but being intrigued by their way of resolving it, while essentially having no cards on the table to play with they manage to get out without losing face.

For one they played it well towards their own lemmings in not losing face but without starting a real war (shooting from Iran and not a proxy gave the base personnel more then enough time to get away)
Second they played the US against EU who despite everything want to save their precious nuclear deal.
Third they played on the sentiment the EU hates Trump more then the Iranian government -Link
And last their president tweeted their final step would be to kick out all US forces from the region, and at least in Iraq it has worked where the hole parliament voted for a resolution to get the Americans out. -Link
And after this official ""CounterAttack"" they can now just start their covert proxy attacks on US, that they where doing all this time already.The hole thing also perfectly distracts the world from the 1500 Iranian demonstrators that where killed within two weeks in December to suppress a protest, while that evil eyed terrorist funeral was a great way to unite them all..

The shooting down of the civilian plane would have given them trouble if it had any real Americans, Canadians or Europeans on board (i know that is debatable) but as we saw on the flight manifest it only had Middle Eastern names on it, no western names at all.. They will successfully cover that missile strike up and by the time it does comes out the world has moved on.

All that said damn would i have loved to see 52 JSF's in action, see the result of what they could accomplish, 0 casualties vs devastation!! Their elephant walk images looked breathtaking too. But guess with Trump in charge a War will be highly unlikely, its bad for business.

Killing Qasem Soleimani The Good The Bad and The ugly

When the good makes the ugly bad assume ambient temperature.....

originally posted by: FredT


What does that look like? I don't have a clue, but what we have done the last 5 decades has gotten us nowhere fast

which is why a change in the status quo is needed. Glad you agree on that.