Kids no longer learn cursive

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: schuyler

As aghast as I am at that, it doesn't trouble me as much as this completely unintuitive lunacy they're passing off as math instruction now. Have you tried to help a kid with math homework lately?

No kidding. The "new math" is being taught at Seattle Public. To me the method is counter-intuitive and bloody incomprehensible. It's a great way to make sure kids don't know how to balance a check book.

I'm genuinely interested in what areas do they not tech cursive, how to count change, or how to read analog clocks.

I grew up on the outskirts of a city. Not quite the countryside, but not quite even a town. The school I went to was about as rudimentary as it gets.

My mother taught me how to read, how to write, count change and how to do math up to basic algrbra. I was reading Frank Herbert, Isaac Asimov, and J.R.R. Tolkien before I was in kindergarten.

Suffice to say I was way ahead of the kids who were just learning how to tie their own shoes and counting to ten on their fingers.

I started school in '95. I learned on chalkboards. I didn't see a whiteboard until after 2000. My first school didn't get a computer until after that. Heck, they still had woodshop, home etc, and a mechanic stall until about 2007.

When the new city school was finished I was rezoned to go to that school, and it had all the new tech. We had smart boards, and projectors were hung from the ceiling and instead of using transparencies they displayed what was on the computer monitors. There were a bunch of kids who had never seen a computer until they stepped into the library. Even though the library kept their records electronically they still used a card catalogue.

The point I'm trying to make is that the area I grew up in and have returned to still doesn't place a large emphasis on education. Kids are more or less graduating dumber than a box of rocks, and they may or may not know how to do the basics, but the schools around here do still teach cursive, typing, and how to read analog clocks.

They just don't have to put in as much effort anymore, because they are basically guaranteed to graduate as long as they don't drop out.

So, where are these areas that don't teach the fundamentals anymore?

Edit: Forgot to mention that the school I graduated from still teaches economics and government. They still teach how to balance a checkbook and how to do taxes. How to shop around for insurance and even how to invest. They even have culinary arts, graphic design, programming, and even some fancy art classes.

They used to have a robotics program where they had partnered with Nissan to do the training. I don't know if they still do, but that's what really set me on the path of eventually becoming an automation technician. I found out I was really good at it, and I even landed a job where I was doing engineering work without ever once stepping foot in a college.

a reply to: schuyler

They only teach kids how to write their signature and that's it, otherwise cursive is a dead. Since most people type and read off of computer, iPads, and e-readers, it makes sense to get rid of cursive. I know how to read and write in cursive. My daughter's also don't know how to read cursive.

originally posted by: liliththedestroyer
a reply to: schuyler

They only teach kids how to write their signature and that's it, otherwise cursive is a dead. Since most people type and read off of computer, iPads, and e-readers, it makes sense to get rid of cursive. I know how to read and write in cursive. My daughter's also don't know how to read cursive.

This one paragraph tells me what a failure our educational system has become.

Recently, it was painful for me to watch a teen try to do basic math when she misplaced her calculator.

I'm glad I'll be dead in 20 years. We'll be living in an Idiocracy by then.

i am an artist.
once i think, 8th or 9th grade hit, and the teachers told me i no longer had to write cursive?
i gave that up. i think english we still had to use script.

i hated writing it, i hated reading it. in fact, i have difficultly reading it now.

again, i am an artist. i study typography as well.

my PERSONAL opinion is, its garbage. waste of time. writing in regular letters makes everything more legible.

this is just my personal opinion, but im glad they are dumping it.
normally i want kids to learn extra things, but its a garbage font.

a reply to: liliththedestroyer

It's not a good thing to be incapable of reading the foundation documents of the country in their original script as painful as that might be.

There actually is a body of research that shows that cursive does have some mental benefits for the learning process.

I cannot get too far into it because I have a child for whom all manual handwriting is painful like reading is to a dyslexic child. It's a persistent learning disability for him. But I fully endorse children learning manual script one or both types *and* keyboarding.

I also think we've let our teaching of proper grammar and spelling slide too much too.

I am an old guy.
I never understood , why cursive ?
But , what does one do for signing documents ?
Is this one of a group of precursors to something very nefarious upcoming ?

a reply to: schuyler

I don't think the conservatives did this. I think the leftists liberals a.k.a. communists has infiltrated the school system and are working to dumb down the children. The kids are going to have a limited thought sphere in which to bobble around. I work with these dumb kids in the fast food industry. They are absolutely pathetic. Tiny little pea brains with an addiction to mobile phones. Really pathetic little useful idiots coming out of the public school system.

originally posted by: paraphi
I have a feeling cursive writing is an American thing!

Outside the US... My kids learnt to write legibly in a style they were able to develop themselves. Not cursive, but legible and neat.

I would disagree, my experience is that rejecting cursive is an American thing. Cursive is essential if you want to get on in the world as lacking it is usually seen as being representative of a poor early education. If you can't write cursive it may mean that your school also skipped basic math and grammar as these things usually go together. Schools generally skip cursive so as not to disadvantage people who have poor basics. Otherwise they'd need to take time to go over it with them and they would fall behind.

a reply to: Nyiah

Each to their own I guess, but this is UK style where scripts aren't used, cursive just means 'consistently neat joined up handwriting'. I'm ambidextrous though, naturally left handed for writing but forced to write right handed in school.

If I had to copy a particular script or overly ornate style then I agree it'd be awkward to do and take longer than writing individual, separated letters but it just means you don't have to take you pen off the paper. While 'printsive' is far easier to read (until you learn that persons style of cursive), personally I couldn't keep it consistently neat and found it incredibly slow - and awkward to write compared to the flowing style of cursive.

Cursive is still compulsory in early years UK education (5 - 10) but once mastered people are allowed to write however they want as long as its legible.

originally posted by: liliththedestroyer
a reply to: schuyler

They only teach kids how to write their signature and that's it, otherwise cursive is a dead. Since most people type and read off of computer, iPads, and e-readers, it makes sense to get rid of cursive. I know how to read and write in cursive. My daughter's also don't know how to read cursive.

The constitution is written in cursive. As is the declaration of independence.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
The constitution is written in cursive. As is the declaration of independence.

Do you actually need to go to the National Archives to read either one? Have you ever been there to view them? You can barely read parts of them as they're so faded.

a reply to: schuyler

My step-niece (22) never learned to tell time on a clock, nor can she read or write cursive.

I used to take pride in my penmanship. I guess today people take pride in typing speed.
Which I also took pride in .
Some guy walked past my desk back in the day and I was typing an email to someone and he stopped and said you can't be really typing anything.
So I very quickly typed his name followed by "should mind his business" to prove my speed.

The world moves on.
We don't use parchment and quill to correspond or a courier with a wax sealed document.
Our world is digital blips and beeps.

Two days ago I had to write out a short story for someone and I will tell you my handwriting has suffered from lack of use and it was a bit arduous.

Three cheers for progress.

a reply to: new_here

When schools don't teach cursive, you have to wonder what else they are not teaching. I've heard all kinds of complaints that students are reaching university age but are lacking in basic skills. For example, having such a poor grasp of spelling, punctuation and grammar that they can barely put sentences together despite apparently having good grades.

It's a sad state of affairs when you have somebody who is applying for college but they don't know their math times tables or their vocabulary is so poor that they don't meet the requirements for fluency in their mother tongue that is expected of somebody as a second or third language (in English this is approximately 5,000 words).

a reply to: chiefsmom

What history won't they be able to read?

Hasn't that all been transcribed to a readable format?

And a current language form?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
I used to take pride in my penmanship. I guess today people take pride in typing speed.

My own personal experience is that kids these days are actually pretty bad at typing.

I can touch type, but kids these days are so used to using virtual keypads on phones that they still type with two fingers on manual keyboard. Some of them don't even know that touch typing is possible.

Their apparent typing speed can be an illusion, and vanishes when they don't have predictive text turned on because half of their speed is due to autocomplete.

I often curse when have to use a laptop, or a virtual keyboard, as it halves my typing speed over a well spaced traditional keyboard, but lots of kids these days don't notice how poor the keyboard is on a MacBook because they've never really used a good professional quality keyboard.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

I think that's more the fault of the student than the curriculum.I

I knew people who sat in the same classes as me but did not take away the same knowledge.
Right there beside me. Same room same teacher same everything but motivation.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Bro I got skills. People tell me I have better handwriting than anyone they know. When I was in the military I had to intentionally scribble everything so they wouldn't force me to write all the official records in big capital letters.

My WPM is close to 200, I could probably go over if I really wanted to. My tap type is probably faster, simply because the keyboard is more condensed and I only have to use two fingers. That's without predictive text, auto-spacing, and auto-capitalization, all of which I have a strong disdain for.

When writing I can write pretty fast with both print and cursive, and have my own personally developed style that blends the two for a well balanced blend of speed, aesthetic, and readability.

I'd say that it's mostly the students fault for not learning. I'd go a little further and say that some responsibility lay with the parents for not fostering a desire to learn into a child.

Think about it. I mentioned it in my previous post. A school can have all the newest technology, up to date textbooks, and whatever else and teens are still able to graduate without the necessary skills to be an adult.

I don't think it's the school's fault. Even the poorest schools in the worst areas still teach how to do the basic stuff, but when the student doesn't want to learn it just isn't going to happen.

If cursive is so important for a child to learn then why doesn't a parent teach their child cursive? It's not like it's hard to teach or learn. Same with counting coins, telling time? These things are so basic, and yet adults expect public schools to teach their children how to do them.

Stop being #ing lazy and take part in educating your children in how to be an learned individual.

You want to know who I hear personally complaining about stuff like common core math, reading, cursive, counting change, stuff like that?

The people my age and older who can only add and subtract, barely multiply, and struggle with decision. I see adults complaining about schools not teaching their children how to read, and yet they are the same individuals who stutter while reading and type "lyk dis."

Long story short and to the point. If it's that big of a deal to you that your child learns how to do something the way you want it done. Then you do it.

I'm glad my parents took the initiative and taught me all the basics. Maybe it's just a US thing; I don't know.

I think one of the most amazing things in the replies here is how many people revel in their ignorance. It's like a badge of honor. I can imagine a time in the not-too-distant future when text-to-speech programs are commonly available for most tasks that people will be proud of themselves because they cannot read.