Congress is raising the minimum smoking and vaping age to 21

Article linked here...

I have been maintaining for a long time that there should be one 'age of majority', where all things 'adult' come into play.

Drinking, smoking, drugs... and yes... voting...

I'm fine with driving be allowed at 16, but I do also agree with serious restrictions that are no in place by many States (my state of Georgia being one).

I have mixed feelings on guns. I'd be inclined to group it with driving - serious restrictions, like always being under adult supervision, etc...

But really... we need to raise the minimum voting age to 21.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Well then the age to join the armed services would need to be rasied as well cause its a pretty bad look to say you can go fight and die for the country but lack the freedom to smoke drink and do drugs. Not that I'm opposed but let's be fair about it.

a reply to: RickyD

We need women signed up for selective service too....ha


We are a nanny state now..big brother will take care of us..

I'm going to showcase Hawaii as to why this is bad.
From: USA Today

The first state to raise the minimum age for purchasing tobacco products to 21 is considering a measure that would effectively forbid cigarettes in five years.

State Rep. Richard Creagan, a medical doctor, sponsored legislation that aims to phase in a ban, raising the age requirement to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022 and 100 in 2024. The bill, likely to be debated in committee this week, would exempt electronic cigarettes, cigars and smokeless tobacco.

Should the measure become law, it could mark the first step toward a more comprehensive prohibition down the road. After Hawaii raised the legal smoking age to 21 in 2016, five other states – California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Oregon and Maine – raised the legal age to buy cigarettes to 21.

Emphasis mine.

While the idea of making a federal age limit seems appealing, we also have a serious issue with political agendas over reaching everything they can. If we were to allow this, what would stop them from trying the "Hawaiian Model" to limit other freedoms of expression? Driving, drinking, shooting, ect ect which would be next? I find it weird that the blatant push for legalized drug use is being touted as acceptable, restrictions on other freedoms of expression are being regulated to hell. Untill we have a return to a more commen sense society (and thus politics) we shouldn't really give an inch on these topics.

a reply to: tanstaafl

You can get an abortion at 13 without parental consent, but aren't smart enough to decide whether to smoke or not at 21.

I have mixed feelings on minimum age restrictions.

The younger people start experimenting with things, the more time they have to become experience in those things. I think an example one study covered was when people have no experience with relationships into their twenties they have more problems than the people who began having relationships in their teen years. Many who have no relationship into their twenties end up entering into their thirties with no relationship experience.

With alcohol I know that many people who started drinking early were already over their partying phase by the time the hit twenty-one. Whereas those who start drinking at twenty-one end up screwing up their careers due to drinking problems they haven't dealt with before.

I think one even mentions driving licenses, where the longer it takes one to become fully licensed it just shifts from teens getting into wrecks to young adults getting into wrecks.

It makes for good headlines and talking points, but statistically it just shifts everything to the right.

I'll find some sources when I get home later.

As far as voting and military service. From my own military service I went in at twenty-two and while I was still young the difference in maturity was vast. While I was focused on my training and getting my qualifications and doing my job the eighteen years olds were trying to screw everything in sight and getting into trouble because it was their first time not living under adult supervision. It messed with readiness and affected morale.

Voting? I say raise it. Raise it up to thirty-five for all I care. I definitely don't think young people should be voting with the way people mature so late.

I really think people mature later than they used to, but that's for a different thread.

a reply to: tanstaafl


I was just about to post this but saw you did.

I'm on the fence with this law. On the one hand, smoking is bad, with tons of health risks. I smoked for 12 years, and I'm glad I quit years ago.

I do think there should be some level of maturity for alcohol purchase, and 21 seems fine, BUT, I also believe that if you are old enough to serve and die for your country or to be conscripted, you should be be able to legally smoke and drink.

But really... we need to raise the minimum voting age to 21.

Why? Would you also agree with raising the age of military service to 21? Why be able to die for your country but not even vote for the a-holes who can send you there if they desire?

a reply to: RickyD
They lowered the voting drinking age because of the draft, no draft raise it back upto 21 or even 25.

Now the recent vaping propaganda makes sense. It was just gov advertising
Let's change the max age for gov offials to 40.
Gd police state thieving boomers.

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: tanstaafl

Well then the age to join the armed services would need to be rasied as well cause its a pretty bad look to say you can go fight and die for the country but lack the freedom to smoke drink and do drugs. Not that I'm opposed but let's be fair about it.

Good point, although I'd say that anyone 18 + but under 21 can serve, but only in a supportive role.

originally posted by: Guyfriday
I'm going to showcase Hawaii as to why this is bad.

That is one really bad example. Its stated purpose is ultimately a ban.

I'm just talking about one, standard, age, where someone is considered an adult with all of the attendant Rights, privileges and responsibilities.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: tanstaafl

You can get an abortion at 13 without parental consent, but aren't smart enough to decide whether to smoke or not at 21.

Obviously, this kind of decision would be included as one reserved for the age of majority. Obviously, it would be impossible to list them all, so I didn't even try, I just listed a couple of the biggies.

I think at 18 you should be able to smoke, drink, get an abortion, vote, drive and shoot your gun all at the same time.

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
I think an example one study covered was when people have no experience with relationships into their twenties they have more problems than the people who began having relationships in their teen years.

Sure, and I see no problem with teens having relationships... sex is a different thing, I think they should wait for as long as possible.

With alcohol I know that many people who started drinking early were already over their partying phase by the time the hit twenty-one.

Well... it all depends...

Children who are allowed to experiment in a safe environment at home definitely are less prone to having addition or other related problems.

Understand... there is nothing illegal (I don't think, and if there is, I disagree with it) and I see nothing wrong with a parent allowing their older children to have a glass of wine, or a beer, or even a shot of whiskey or a little weed, as long as it is under parental supervision. There is a big difference between this and allowing your kids to have a huge kegger and get wasted.

I think one even mentions driving licenses, where the longer it takes one to become fully licensed it just shifts from teens getting into wrecks to young adults getting into wrecks.

It makes for good headlines and talking points, but statistically it just shifts everything to the right.

I'll find some sources when I get home later.

Please do, I've been interested in any real stats ever since Georgia enacted their staged license process.

As far as voting and military service. From my own military service I went in at twenty-two and while I was still young the difference in maturity was vast. While I was focused on my training and getting my qualifications and doing my job the eighteen years olds were trying to screw everything in sight and getting into trouble because it was their first time not living under adult supervision. It messed with readiness and affected morale.
Heh... yeah, well, they are still kids, which is why we're having this discussion.

I say they should be able to serve in a supportive roles - mechanics, logistics, etc - but not in combat roles.

Voting? I say raise it. Raise it up to thirty-five for all I care. I definitely don't think young people should be voting with the way people mature so late.

Heh, yeah, I get where you're coming from, but 35 is way too long. 21 is the most logical, because historically it has always been the age of majority in England and Ireland, and it was here until about 1970, when it was changed to 18.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
=I think at 18 you should be able to smoke, drink, get an abortion, vote, drive and shoot your gun all at the same time.

So you're for 18 as being the age of majority. Fine.

I think the evidence supports how badly the change from 21 to 18 has affected our society, since it was done in 1970.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: tanstaafl
"But really... we need to raise the minimum voting age to 21."

Why?

Because many/most (but certainly not all, there are always exceptions) kids are just too immature to be able to make intelligent decisions, and voting has a huge impact on everyone.

Actually, what I would really like to see is a requirement to pass the same Civics test that immigrants have to take and pass before being allowed to become Citizens. Anyone who is voting in federal elections should at least have a firm knowledge of our History and our form of government.

Would you also agree with raising the age of military service to 21? Why be able to die for your country but not even vote for the a-holes who can send you there if they desire?

Already addressed this. 18-20 would be able to serve in supportive roles, but no combat roles, and I'd add, restrictions on 'front line' supportive roles.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
So you're for 18 as being the age of majority. Fine.

I'm actually for European-style drinking ages. We're a bunch of puritans over here.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
"originally posted by: tanstaafl
So you're for 18 as being the age of majority. Fine."

I'm actually for European-style drinking ages. We're a bunch of puritans over here.

You do understand that the age restrictions here are for purchasing and drinking publicly? There is nothing illegal about 16 yr olds drinking at home under parental supervision.

Such a useless bill... Raise the draft and age to join the military to match or # off.

I will always be against any law that restricts a citizen while they are old enough to serve.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
You do understand that the age restrictions here are for purchasing and drinking publicly? There is nothing illegal about 16 yr olds drinking at home under parental supervision.

First, not all states permit minors to drink at home. Second, you can buy alcohol in most European countries at 18.