Impeachment Amendment, first enacted as a Federal Law

So, this is my proposal for how to make sure that what happened to President Trump never, ever happens again.

First, this should be enacted as a law - obviously after the Rs retake the House in 2020 - and then it should be proposed as a constitutional Amendment, to make it as permanent as possible.

I don't imagine the format will be perfect, but should suffice for ATS purposes.

First, the Bill:

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that:

Section 1

The Title of this Bill is 'The Fair and Impartial Impeachment Act', and its purpose is to establish fair and appropriate rules for Impeachment proceedings that may be initiated against The President or Vice President of the United States.

Section 2, Clause 1:

The initiation of any impeachment proceeding of any kind against The President or Vice President, whether formal or informal, a preliminary inquiry or investigation, or actual Articles of Impeachment, shall be approved only by a 2/3 majority vote of the whole House, where each and every Member is not only required to vote, but may only vote either yea or ney.

Section 2, Clause 2:

In any impeachment proceeding against The President or Vice President that is initiated by a 2/3 vote of the full House per Clause 6, each and every Member of the House, regardless of Party Affiliation or Committee membership, shall individually have co-equal power to speak during any formal Hearings, to propose witnesses to be called or subpoena's to be issued, and to question any witnesses who may be called to testify under oath.

Section 2, Clause 3:

Only Members of Congress are allowed to question witnesses who are called to testify, and any Member who speaks on the floor of the House, or questions any witness, or participates in any way, in any impeachment proceedings against the President or Vice President, shall be considered as testifying under oath, even if they are not formally sworn in.

Section 2, Clause 4:

Any proposed witnesses to be called or subpoenas to be issued, or rules governing time limits on Members speaking or questioning witnesses or any other part of the impeachment process, shall be approved/disapproved by a simple majority vote of either the whole House, or a special temporary Committee made up of an equal number of Members of each Party to be designated by each Party leader, and totaling not less than 20 Members.

Section 2, Clause 5:

The term 'other high Crimes and Misdemeanors', as that term is used in Article II Section 4, is herein clearly defined as to exclude Maladministration, which would make the Executive Branch subservient to the Congress, but instead to only include other clearly defined crimes as defined in the law.

Section 2, Clause 6:

The last line in Article III Clause, which currently reads as: "And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.", is hereby amended to read: "And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of three fourths of the Members present.

Section 3

Any Impeachment proceeding against The President or Vice President that violates any of the conditions enacted herein shall be null and void.

Section 4

This law goes into effect immediately upon passage by both houses of Congress.

Next, the Constitutional Amendment to be proposed:

Be it amended by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that:

Article I, Section 2 is hereby amended, by adding the following Clauses after Clause 5:

Article I, Section 2, Clause 6:

The initiation of any impeachment proceeding of any kind against The President or Vice President, whether formal or informal, a preliminary inquiry or investigation, or actual Articles of Impeachment, shall be approved only by a 2/3 majority vote of the whole House, where each and every Member is not only required to vote, but may only vote either yea or nay.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 7:

In any impeachment proceeding against The President or Vice President that is initiated by a 2/3 vote of the full House per Clause 6, each and every Member of the House, regardless of Party Affiliation or Committee membership, shall individually have co-equal power to speak during any formal Hearings, to propose witnesses to be called or subpoena's to be issued, and to question any witnesses who may be called to testify under oath.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 8:

Only Members of Congress are allowed to question witnesses who are called to testify, and any Member who speaks on the floor of the House, or questions any witness, or participates in any way, in any impeachment proceedings against the President or Vice President, shall be considered as testifying under oath, even if they are not formally sworn in.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 9:

Any proposed witnesses to be called or subpoenas to be issued, or rules governing time limits on Members speaking or questioning witnesses or any other part of the impeachment process, shall be approved/disapproved by a simple majority vote of either the whole House, or a special temporary Committee made up of an equal number of Members of each Party to be designated by each Party leader, and totaling not less than 20 Members.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 10:

The term 'other high Crimes and Misdemeanors', as that term is used in Article II Section 4, is herein clearly defined as to exclude Maladministration, which would make the Executive Branch subservient to the Congress, but instead to only include other clearly defined crimes as defined in the law.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 11:

The last line in Article III Clause, which currently reads as: "And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.", is hereby amended to read: "And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of three fourths of the Members present.

a reply to: tanstaafl

First, this should be enacted as a law - obviously after the Rs retake the House in 2020 - and then it should be proposed as a constitutional Amendment, to make it as permanent as possible.

I don't think that would be obvious though considering the Rs made the current rules.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

How do you figure?

The House changed the rules before they started their impeachment hearings and the ones they forgot to change, they didn't bother to follow anyway. Otherwise, the Republicans would have been given a chance to have at least one day of impeachment hearings in the House where they got to call their own witnesses, which never happened.

a reply to: tanstaafl

First, this should be enacted as a law - obviously after the Rs retake the House in 2020

So, you need a partisan Congress to make sure that partisan politics don't happen?

So, this is my proposal for how to make sure that what happened to President Trump never, ever happens again.

Any time a politician, especially the President of United States, asks a foreign nation or entity to interfere in a American election, to assist them in their election or reelection bid by coordinating with that nation or entity to open an investigation into their political rival, this is exactly what should happen. Every time!

I will co-sponsor your bill if you co-sponsor mine, but I get the 28th, you can have the 29th, seeing as I called dibs back in October, no-take-backsies.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: tanstaafl

This law goes into effect immediately upon passage by both houses of Congress.

Cool! The President doesn't even have to sign it!

So much for Legislative process as delineated in the US Constitution, Article 1 Section 7.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Any time a politician, especially the President of United States, asks a foreign nation or entity to interfere in a American election, to assist them in their election or reelection bid by coordinating with that nation or entity to open an investigation into their political rival, this is exactly what should happen. Every time!

When are you those of you who choose to ignore the facts going to admit to yourselves that Ukraine already had a re-opened investigation into Biden and had since February?

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: CriticalStinker

How do you figure?

The House changed the rules before they started their impeachment hearings and the ones they forgot to change, they didn't bother to follow anyway. Otherwise, the Republicans would have been given a chance to have at least one day of impeachment hearings in the House where they got to call their own witnesses, which never happened.

My understanding (full disclosure, I'm not a lawyer), is that the Republicans set some of the rules back in the 90's... The most relevant is that the majority party really gets to quarterback how the investigation is ran (with the exception of committee led investigations, in that case the chairman quarterback).

Now, my opinion is this impeachment is a waste of time, money, and resources... Nothing will come of it, so what was the point.

Me bringing up the fact Republicans set some of the rules that led to this wasn't to absolve Dems. I brought it up because OP implied if this gets changed, it would obviously be by R's. Personally, I'll be surprised if it gets changed by either, as they could just restrict themselves when they have majority. And if we know anything about partisan politics, neither side likes to neuter power, even if they aren't currently holding it... Because they know one day they will.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Now, my opinion is this impeachment is a waste of time, money, and resources... Nothing will come of it, so what was the point.

You didn't state which rules were the ones Republicans set, so I guess we won't be discussing them.

In the meanwhile, the Democrats are using impeachment purely for political campaign purposes. They promised their low information voters that they would impeach Trump at any cost and they did, so there's nothing more for them to do but to go around trying to convince everyone that they fulfilled their campaign promise.

a reply to: tanstaafl

The Constitution was framed to try and protect the rights and freedoms of the citizens of the US under law. It wasn't framed to protect the position of President.

Everything in the US political system is designed to cycle out the people in power and replace them by new people in a continuous process.

Trump was always going to be a temporary President. They are all temporary. What happened to Trump is supposed to happen.

What you are trying to do sounds like establishing an emperor and it breaks the Constitution.

a reply to: Deetermined

RULES OF THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES 2015
This is where many reference some of the rules that have been changed recently and used up until now.

The last changes were done in 2015 (to my knowledge), voted on a Republican majority. So the rules in place now were put in by Republicans.

So all the rules (including committees being able to hold closed door investigations) have been signed off on by Republicans.

Many of the rules I see brought up that are broken are that of a trial, which is held by the Senate.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: tanstaafl
"First, this should be enacted as a law - obviously after the Rs retake the House in 2020 - and then it should be proposed as a constitutional Amendment, to make it as permanent as possible."

I don't think that would be obvious though considering the Rs made the current rules.

Sorry, the Rs had nothing to do with the sham rules the Dems imposed during this impeachment farce.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: tanstaafl
"First, this should be enacted as a law - obviously after the Rs retake the House in 2020"

So, you need a partisan Congress to make sure that partisan politics don't happen?

It is the current House that is acting as purely Partisan.

I'm saying that there is no chance the Dems would ever agree to such a Law or Amendment. there is a better chance the Rs would, although it is certainly not a given.

"So, this is my proposal for how to make sure that what happened to President Trump never, ever happens again."

Any time a politician, especially the President of United States, asks a foreign nation or entity to interfere in a American election, to assist them in their election or reelection bid by coordinating with that nation or entity to open an investigation into their political rival, this is exactly what should happen. Every time!

Ok, but... that isn't what happened, so not sure why you would bring that up.

originally posted by: Zelun
I will co-sponsor your bill if you co-sponsor mine, but I get the 28th, you can have the 29th, seeing as I called dibs back in October, no-take-backsies.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A quick perusal reveals it will take longer than a few minutes to read/digest what your proposal is there, so I'll have to get back to you...

a reply to: tanstaafl

It is the current House that is acting as purely Partisan.

Under Mitch McConnel, so is the Senate. Neither party can be absolved from partisanship. I don't see a partisan body curtailing partisanship.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: tanstaafl
"This law goes into effect immediately upon passage by both houses of Congress."

Cool! The President doesn't even have to sign it!

So much for Legislative process as delineated in the US Constitution, Article 1 Section 7.

If it isn't obvious, it would be subject to the same rules as any other law.

Now, got any suggestions or criticisms beyond knee-jerk TDS-speak?

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: CriticalStinker
You didn't state which rules were the ones Republicans set, so I guess we won't be discussing them.

My understanding is they only set the normal, regular House Rules, none of which were specific to Impeachment.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Any time a politician, especially the President of United States, asks a foreign nation or entity to interfere in a American election, to assist them in their election or reelection bid by coordinating with that nation or entity to open an investigation into their political rival, this is exactly what should happen. Every time!

When are you those of you who choose to ignore the facts going to admit to yourselves that Ukraine already had a re-opened investigation into Biden and had since February?

I'm sure your referring Solomon's reporting that Ukraine was considering opening a investigation since February, when Rudy Giuliani first started interfering in Ukraine.

Can you post the outcome of said investigation? Why do all the president's defenders keep saying that no investigation was ever opened? Why did Trump announce on the White House lawn that he hoped Zelenskiy would open an investigation into the Bidens?

a reply to: tanstaafl

Hmmm...if the Impeachment was fully declared a coup attempt by voting for Articles of Impeachment that were unfounded then this certainly would apply because a coup by definition is an insurrection:

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: tanstaafl
The Constitution was framed to try and protect the rights and freedoms of the citizens of the US under law.

That is precisely what my proposed law/amendment is intended for. To protect us against sham garbage purely Partisan political impeachments.

It wasn't framed to protect the position of President.

Well, that is true, but The President is a Citizen, isn't he? With the same Rights and Privileges? Does his Executive Power, as delegated by the Constitution, not as deserving of protection from a partisan Congress, as the Powers of Congress are deserving fo protection from a potentially partisan President?

Everything in the US political system is designed to cycle out the people in power and replace them by new people in a continuous process.

Trump was always going to be a temporary President. They are all temporary.

True...

What happened to Trump is supposed to happen.

Really, It didn't happen to Obama. Or Bush. or a lot of other Presidents. So, by all means, explain why what happened to Trump was supposed to happen.

What you are trying to do sounds like establishing an emperor and it breaks the Constitution.

Geesh, really? How so? All it does is require true bi-partisan support for the Impeachment process.

Are you really opposed to that?