18 000 years old, amazingly preserved puppy with whiskers, eyelashes and hair puzzle scientists

Nice find.
I didn't find a proper place for the thread so I'm posting it here

The male puppy with its arrow-head milky teeth was less than two months old when it died.

It was found in summer 2018 inside a lump of a frozen ground near Indigirka River, north-east of Yakutsk, its full body, muzzle, and even whiskers and eyelashes preserved by permafrost.

The reason for the puppy’s death has not been determined yet, although its position did not suggest distress, unlike of the earlier discovered Tumat puppies.

Initial genome sequencing carried by Swedish Centre for Palaeogenetics (CPG) surprised researchers in that it failed to define if the 18,000 year old puppy was a wolf or a dog.

‘Love Dalén, professor of Evolutionary Genetics, said that usually first DNA tests make it clear if this is a wolf or a dog.

'The Centre has the Europe’s largest DNA bank of all canines from around the globe, yet in this case they couldn’t identify it from the first try.

'This is intriguing, what if it’s a dog? We can’t wait to get results from further tests’, said Sergey Fedorov from the Institute of Applied Ecology of the North, part of the North-Eastern Federal University in Yakutsk who took these stunning pictures.

Source

a reply to: iasenko

Thanks OP.

I've always the story, and theories around dog domestication interesting.

a reply to: iasenko

hmm so DNA sequencing " pass one - quick " didnt give a result - fine

prease dont tell me - they didnt run any other samples

its been 3 days - assuming that they started multiple sequencing samples at the same time - they SHOULD have better results by now

where are they ?

Here some more info from the researchers >

We now have some news on the 18,000 year old #wolf or #dog puppy.

Genome analyses shows it's a male. So we asked our Russian colleagues to name it...

Thus, the name of the puppy is Dogor!

Dogor is a Yakutian word for "friend", which seems very suitable.

twitter.com...

@Nibbledtodeath is working on this specimen together with @pontus_skoglund.

It's 18 kyrs old!

So far, we have sequenced it's genome to 2X coverage. But we still can't say if it's a #wolf or a #dog. Maybe it's the common ancestor?

More sequencing needed!

twitter.com...

No word yet on "good boy" status. More sequencing needed.

I saw this story on Twitter and was very sceptical of the age of this dog.

18000 years old ? pfft. Once again scientists trying to play God with information.

Reminds me of a true story I heard on the radio of two college kids who brought some sort of rock substance to be tested for how long it’s been on the earth. They knew it was a man made composition of some kind but were testing the “experts”. Low and behold those superior scientists said it was thousands of years old ( not sure of exact number )..and the two college kids busted them with the truth.

Yeah.. I’m not a great believer in scientists who make statements such as that.
18,000 years ? 🙄

a reply to: iasenko

They should’ve named him Seymour.
Try not to cry.

a reply to: iasenko
Dogor??? Dogor is Yakutian for friend. I think they are taking the P. It should read "we named him Dogor because we don't know if it's a dog or a wolf". That's the dogor they are referring to.

originally posted by: scolai
a reply to: iasenko

They should’ve named him Seymour.
Try not to cry.

1000 points for that, sad sad story that..

Lol

CLONE IT!!!!! Seriously... then I want a puppy!

Looks like it would be a wolf, based on how fluffy the fir but at the same time it kinda looks more heina based on the short snout and specs on the coat..

a reply to: iasenko

Awww oh, poor baby....dogs are SO MUCH smarter than most people get. I was reading the other day about how their "eyebrows" thing and facial expressions are due to learning to live with us humans...an evolutionary trait.

www.nationalgeographic.com...

Clearly this is a wolf that has been through a few generations of domestication. There was a study done on Foxes (See PBS story on this) and genetic changes occurred to the foxes after a few generations of select breeding for domestication. This Wolf like canine could be this process in it's earliest stages. "IF TRUE" then that would mean that people were still selectively breeding wolves 18000 years ago, also it could point to what traits were viewed as important by earlier man.

a reply to: Sheye
What were they testing? concrete as an example is man made, but the ingredients could be million-billion years old.

originally posted by: Sheye
I saw this story on Twitter and was very sceptical of the age of this dog.

18000 years old ? pfft. Once again scientists trying to play God with information.

Reminds me of a true story I heard on the radio of two college kids who brought some sort of rock substance to be tested for how long it’s been on the earth. They knew it was a man made composition of some kind but were testing the “experts”. Low and behold those superior scientists said it was thousands of years old ( not sure of exact number )..and the two college kids busted them with the truth.

Yeah.. I’m not a great believer in scientists who make statements such as that.
18,000 years ? 🙄

If they did that then they proved nothing

Carbon dating rock is futile even if it's fashioned into something modern made.

Concrete is still likely to come out thousands of years old, because that's how old the stuff its made from is

Carbon dating isn't used for stuff like that, so be skeptical if you like and poopoo it

But perhaps you should know how it works first

/side note, you sure seem cranky today, hope something brightens it up for you

a reply to: SailorJerry

side note, you sure seem cranky today, hope something brightens it up for you

Why can’t I have a differing opinion without seeming cranky ? Why can’t I be sceptical of scientific claims without being accused of being cranky ?

Maybe that’s what makes me cranky ? The inability of expressing my true thoughts without reservation and people calling me cranky for it.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: SailorJerry

side note, you sure seem cranky today, hope something brightens it up for you

Why can’t I have a differing opinion without seeming cranky ? Why can’t I be sceptical of scientific claims without being accused of being cranky ?

Maybe that’s what makes me cranky ? The inability of expressing my true thoughts without reservation and people calling me cranky for it.

I don't know, that's not my question to answer

But I do know in regards to your assessment of how carbon dating works, your misinformed.

As to why you can't do it w out being cranky???? I dunno I'm not you

Like I said, hope your day brightens up

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: SailorJerry

side note, you sure seem cranky today, hope something brightens it up for you

Why can’t I have a differing opinion without seeming cranky ? Why can’t I be sceptical of scientific claims without being accused of being cranky ?

Maybe that’s what makes me cranky ? The inability of expressing my true thoughts without reservation and people calling me cranky for it.

I don't know, that's not my question to answer

But I do know in regards to your assessment of how carbon dating works, your misinformed.

As to why you can't do it w out being cranky???? I dunno I'm not you

Like I said, hope your day brightens up

🤔 Not sure how my opinion on carbon dating seemed so cranky 🤷🏻‍♀️. I merely said I was skeptical and why I was.

I could very well be misinformed about it, and am not denying that, but is it ok if I am still sceptical ? Without being accused of being cranky ?

originally posted by: Sheye
I saw this story on Twitter and was very sceptical of the age of this dog.

18000 years old ? pfft. Once again scientists trying to play God with information.

Reminds me of a true story I heard on the radio of two college kids who brought some sort of rock substance to be tested for how long it’s been on the earth. They knew it was a man made composition of some kind but were testing the “experts”. Low and behold those superior scientists said it was thousands of years old ( not sure of exact number )..and the two college kids busted them with the truth.

Yeah.. I’m not a great believer in scientists who make statements such as that.
18,000 years ? 🙄

The composition was made from materials thousands of years old, likely much older than that. All things non organic are made from very old material. Even organics reuse old materials.
So those kids forgot about that little problem.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Sheye
I saw this story on Twitter and was very sceptical of the age of this dog.

18000 years old ? pfft. Once again scientists trying to play God with information.

Reminds me of a true story I heard on the radio of two college kids who brought some sort of rock substance to be tested for how long it’s been on the earth. They knew it was a man made composition of some kind but were testing the “experts”. Low and behold those superior scientists said it was thousands of years old ( not sure of exact number )..and the two college kids busted them with the truth.

Yeah.. I’m not a great believer in scientists who make statements such as that.
18,000 years ? 🙄

The composition was made from materials thousands of years old, likely much older than that. All things non organic are made from very old material. Even organics reuse old materials.
So those kids forgot about that little problem.

That could all be well and true and I will take it into considerationI, but I still remain sceptical on the wolf dog being 18,000 years old.🤷🏻‍♀️

originally posted by: scolai
a reply to: iasenko

They should’ve named him Seymour.
Try not to cry.