Florida Welcomes Billionaires

In many threads, we've discussed how capital is fluid and that if you tax people enough they will start to leave. I know I've pointed out how billionaire are leaving the northeast states for Florida and many of these uber rich cite state taxes as a primary culprit. Even our President, Donald Trump announced he will be making Florida his home.

The Wall Street Journal had a good article today talking about how all these uber rich are leaving New Jersey, Connecticut, and New York for the Sunshine state.

Florida Welcomes Billionaires

One stat that stood out to me is that Connecticut has 1.8 million tax filers. The Top 100 filers paid an astonishing $1.13 billion in income taxes. Basically, an average of $11,300,000 per filer in STATE taxes. These 100 filers also account for 12% of the tax revenue for the state. So 100 people out of 1.8 million paid more than 12% of the state's taxes!

I don't care how much money you make, paying $11 million in state taxes is going to hurt. In addition, the new SALT tax rules that the Trump administration pushed through means that $11 million can no longer be written off federal tax bill. These blue states are going to be losing a lot of people since the state taxes are no longer being subsidized at the federal level.

We see thread after thread where the usual leftist suspects claim the rich aren't paying their fair share. In light of the above, how can anyone state this with a straight face?

a reply to: Edumakated

Just a minor point of contention, where I live, in New Jersey, we were a net contributor to the Treasury prior to the SALT tax rules passing meaning we put more into the Treasury then we took out. Now it's even higher.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Edumakated

Just a minor point of contention, where I live, in New Jersey, we were a net contributor to the Treasury prior to the SALT tax rules passing meaning we put more into the Treasury then we took out. Now it's even higher.

That's fair. Can't argue either way.

However, the SALT rules are forcing states to explain their high tax bills to residents now because anyone who is paying more than $10k in SALT got a tax increase.

I know here in Illinois you don't have to be rich to surpass that when the property taxes alone on a relatively modest house can exceed that amount.

The point though is that people will pick up an leave at some point to cheaper states.

originally posted by: Edumakated
However, the SALT rules are forcing states to explain their high tax bills to residents now because anyone who is paying more than $10k in SALT got a tax increase.

Well, there's no real explanation necessary for me, I know why my property tax is high, it's our bloated school budget which is a by product of public sector unions.

I know here in Illinois you don't have to be rich to surpass that when the property taxes alone on a relatively modest house can exceed that amount.

I don't want to tell you what mine are but they're well north of there and I don't exactly have a mansion.

The point though is that people will pick up an leave at some point to cheaper states.

This is where the law of unintended consequences will end up biting people celebrating this, those people up and moving take not only their salaries but their politics with them.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Good segue in to another article I read today as well...

Go Back to California

Boise, Idaho wants Californians to stop relocating there.... bringing their politics with them.

a reply to: Edumakated

Yup, that's exactly what I was referring to.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Edumakated

This is where the law of unintended consequences will end up biting people celebrating this, those people up and moving take not only their salaries but their politics with them

It's amazing to me how they leave due to tax liability only to than want to bring their taxes and willingness to give more power and more money to a bunch of people with conflict of interest .

originally posted by: Edumakated
We see thread after thread where the usual leftist suspects claim the rich aren't paying their fair share. In light of the above, how can anyone state this with a straight face?

Yes, for someone making an average wage paying $11 million in state taxes seems outrageous! I don't have a problem with a progressive tax system but many people on the right do.

So many years ago a Republican Jack Kemp tried to promote a flat tax. I thought it was great idea at the time:

en.wikipedia.org...

But I heard two amazing arguments against it. The first was from someone making less than $20,000 dollars from a red state. Here was their argument, "I don't like the flat tax because it's unfair. Right now I don't pay any Federal Taxes. Under the flat tax I would have to pay. This is unfair because I don't pay anything now!"

And the second argument was from someone from Connecticut. They argued, "The flat tax is unfair because the average person only pays $15,000 dollars. It's not fair I should pay $150,000 dollars when the average person is only paying $15,000.

These two arguments were and are amazing to me. How can flat tax ever be unfair????????????

a reply to: interupt42

Honestly, I think the average person really is just bad at connecting dots.

I live in an uber liberal town and people are always complaining about property taxes. Yet, these same people can't seem to realize they vote for this sh*t. There isn't a teachers union demand or some other liberal boondoggle these folks won't support.

The problem is they always think someone else is paying for it....

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Edumakated
We see thread after thread where the usual leftist suspects claim the rich aren't paying their fair share. In light of the above, how can anyone state this with a straight face?

Yes, for someone making an average wage paying $11 million in state taxes seems outrageous! I don't have a problem with a progressive tax system but many people on the right do.

So many years ago a Republican Jack Kemp tried to promote a flat tax. I thought it was great idea at the time:

en.wikipedia.org...

But I heard two amazing arguments against it. The first was from someone making less than $20,000 dollars from a red state. Here was their argument, "I don't like the flat tax because it's unfair. Right now I don't pay any Federal Taxes. Under the flat tax I would have to pay. This is unfair because I don't pay anything now!"

And the second argument was from someone from Connecticut. They argued, "The flat tax is unfair because the average person only pays $15,000 dollars. It's not fair I should pay $150,000 dollars when the average person is only paying $15,000.

These two arguments were and are amazing to me. How can flat tax ever be unfair????????????

No tax plan will ever be 100% fair.

However, I do think a flat tax is about as fair as it will ever be. Most iterations I've seen have a carve out for people who make less than say $20k or $30k/yr. Personally, I don't want any exemptions. I say make it 10%. You pay 10% regardless of how much you make.

I MIGHT even consider a progressive flat tax. Say 5% for lowest bracket . 10%. and maybe up to 15% for highest earners. My thing is I don't want any deductions of any kind. Keep it as simple as possible to prevent any gaming of tax code.

I also like a sales tax with no income taxes. However, not sure how you'd deal with black market.

originally posted by: interupt42
It's amazing to me how they leave due to tax liability only to than want to bring their taxes and willingness to give more power and more money to a bunch of people with conflict of interest .

Oh, well, that's how it goes. But hey, tax the 'liberals'.

a reply to: Edumakated

Of the 400 wealthiest people in Florida, the wealthiest has $3.5 billion. The last person on the list has $550 million.

$11 million is 2% of $550m for the 400th person. $11 million is 0.31% for the wealthiest.

You say you don't care how much people make, $11m is a lot. Yes. To you. And me. To the people of Florida and of the United States, those wealthy people are milking the system and avoiding paying their fair share.

originally posted by: Oraculi
To the people of Florida and of the United States, those wealthy people are milking the system and avoiding paying their fair share.

How are they milking the United States when their Federal income tax doesn't change?

a reply to: Edumakated

Many people dont take an interest in politics (probably better for it to be honest)

I had an interesting conversation with a group opf people who dont but are into sports.

Bryce Harper was a free agent this past year, and signed with the Phillies. He saved millions of dollars by siging with the PA team instead of a california team that was going to make him an offer.

www.latimes.com...

Now some of my friends could care less about politics, but knowing their favorite team can benefit or lose out because of the state tax structure, that was a big deal to them.

Even though it is just sports, I think the increased awareness of professional athletes as to which states they would preffer to live in to pay less taxes probably also applies to other extremely wealthy people, and may signify even more wealthy people fleeing high state tax areas.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Oraculi
To the people of Florida and of the United States, those wealthy people are milking the system and avoiding paying their fair share.

How are they milking the United States when their Federal income tax doesn't change?

Augustus, while Florida is a tax haven and the wealthy from all over the country flock there to avoid paying taxes, it does not affect their federal taxes. The super wealthy we are talking about have a fleet of attorneys that help them avoid paying federal taxes as well, sometimes paying as little as $0 in taxes even for billionaires.

I just felt this knowledge was implied.

originally posted by: Oraculi
a reply to: Edumakated

Of the 400 wealthiest people in Florida, the wealthiest has $3.5 billion. The last person on the list has $550 million.

$11 million is 2% of $550m for the 400th person. $11 million is 0.31% for the wealthiest.

You say you don't care how much people make, $11m is a lot. Yes. To you. And me. To the people of Florida and of the United States, those wealthy people are milking the system and avoiding paying their fair share.

We are talking income taxes, not wealth. I hope you know the difference but I doubt it.

Income is what you make in a given year. Wealth is all your assets minus liabilities.

Just because someone may be worth say 500 million, it doesnt mean they have access to 500 million as they may not be liquid. For example, Bezos is worth 100 billion because that is what his shares in amazon are worth. He does not have access to 100 billion. He cant sell all his shares or he would crash the value of amazon. He may only have access to a few billion at any given time from what he may have previously been able to cash out.

a reply to: dfnj2015


The real reason we won't get a flat tax has nothing to do with fairness.

The current system of progressive taxes, deductions, and penalties gives the government powerful tools for behavior modification and social engineering. Desirable actions are rewarded with tax deductions, undesirable behavior is punished with higher taxes. Sin taxes and Obamacare are two examples.

Not to mention all the people who make a living navigating the tax code.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Edumakated

Just a minor point of contention, where I live, in New Jersey, we were a net contributor to the Treasury prior to the SALT tax rules passing meaning we put more into the Treasury then we took out. Now it's even higher.

So you were being subsidized on the federal level because you chose to live in a higher taxed state than those who did not benefit from the SALT tax. Have you looked at property in Florida, Texas, or Washington yet?

originally posted by: Oraculi
Augustus, while Florida is a tax haven and the wealthy from all over the country flock there to avoid paying taxes, it does not affect their federal taxes. The super wealthy we are talking about have a fleet of attorneys that help them avoid paying federal taxes as well, sometimes paying as little as $0 in taxes even for billionaires.

If there is a legal way to not pay more taxes I am all for it, if people don't like the rules tough, nothing illegal is being done.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
So you were being subsidized on the federal level because you chose to live in a higher taxed state than those who did not benefit from the SALT tax. Have you looked at property in Florida, Texas, or Washington yet?

I was and am still paying more in than I get out, it's not exactly my idea of a winning subsidy. And we''ll set aside the 38 or so states that are actual mooches that take out more than they put in.

And if we do move it will be to Nashville, North or South Carolina so I can get my mooch on for once.