US Economy a ‘Bright Spot’ in Global Outlook

a reply to: 727Sky

USA will always be the economic leader of capitalism because of the following seen from a Brit's perspective

USA has masses of the worlds most recognisable and desirable brand names and to me making dosh is all about branding

USA has a remarkable tradition of reinventing itself economically

That’s true. In the early days it was slavery. Then we moved up to indentured servitude. Then the Pinkerton and others forced folks to work at gunpoint, and people were paid in chits for the company store. Then we had robber barons and tycoons for a bit, until the world wars. In the post war period we had new deal economy with a steady rise in wages, living conditions, productivity, and so on. That lasted a good 40 years until Reaganism with the new corporate takeover economy where our fortunes were made canibalizing jobs, benefits, and pensions. And now we have the foreign sweat shop and financialization economy.

originally posted by: pexx421
Further, I present facts and evidence, and you just attack me, and the sources, and deflect. Because you are not into honest debate.

You presented one source, which shows labor participation plummeting during the Obama administration. As the previous poster said, it rebounded slightly when Trump was elected and has held steady since. I don't believe a lot of those jobs that were lost during the Obama administration will be coming back.

The rest of your original post

the highest personal debt, and suicide and overdose have overtaken car accidents for mortality statistics. Oh, and wages are worse than they’ve been for the last 50 years as well.

has not been backed up by any links or sources that I've seen, aside from Google it, which isn't how this forum works. You've been here as long as I have and you should know that by now.

originally posted by: harold223
Australian economy is getting hit HARD by the trade war with China. It's only going to get worse. Looks like we are just seen as collateral damage in Trumps trade war. Australia has had a 25 year stretch of growth without recession. Even continued to boom during the last GFC, thanks entirely to China's insatiable hunger for our minerals.

So they keep telling us... but we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out, I suppose.

I know they keep talking about Australia being in the middle of a construction recession. But I'm not currently seeing all that much of a change from previous years at my work, which is a company that produces basically every kind of sheet metal product used in the construction industry.

It is a bit slow at the moment, but there's been a lot of rain, which always slows things down... mid summer is the busy season though. So if I'm not flat out in December at work, then I'll personally be able to confirm that the Australian economy is indeed in trouble.

originally posted by: Hypntick

originally posted by: pexx421
Further, I present facts and evidence, and you just attack me, and the sources, and deflect. Because you are not into honest debate.

You presented one source, which shows labor participation plummeting during the Obama administration. As the previous poster said, it rebounded slightly when Trump was elected and has held steady since. I don't believe a lot of those jobs that were lost during the Obama administration will be coming back.

The rest of your original post

the highest personal debt, and suicide and overdose have overtaken car accidents for mortality statistics. Oh, and wages are worse than they’ve been for the last 50 years as well.

has not been backed up by any links or sources that I've seen, aside from Google it, which isn't how this forum works. You've been here as long as I have and you should know that by now.

It’s because I’ve been here so long that I’ve gotten tired of constantly linking things that people can find for themselves in 2 minutes. But here ya go!

www.google.com...

That shows the stats on suicide and od, consistent with what I stated. And here is auto accidents, also consistent with what I said:

ohsonline.com...

a reply to: pexx421

Awesome, and thank you for the links. What you said is accurate according to the sources, now what do these have to do with the economy? Have there been studies that link workforce participation for example with increases in suicides, overdoses, or automobile accidents? I see the opioid crisis highlighted and the states, pretty much Kentucky on up through Maine, would this be linked to a decrease in available jobs or economic issues? I'm looking at the CDC reports linked in the first link and not seeing any speculation as to the cause of why overdoses and suicides are higher.

I would say the auto fatality may be linked to the opioid issue, but per the report some states with high opioid abuse did go up, while others went down. So that doesn't appear to be the factor. However, the NSC does have this listed as a factor

Recognize the dangers of drugged driving, including impairment from prescription opioids. Visit StopEverydayKillers.org to understand the impact of the nation’s opioid crisis.

So it appears they believe there is some correlation between the two, which was my first thought.

Now that we've established that you were in fact correct in your post and can back it up with research from reputable sources, what does this have to do with the economy? If workforce participation had continued to decline when Trump was put into office, I would be highly inclined to agree with you at least on that aspect. However the bump up and leveling off tells me that the US just lost jobs to begin with (e.g. automation losses, industry losses, etc.). I understand the desire to focus on these other issues, and there should be increased focus on them of that we are in agreement, I just fail to see the economic connection and how it casts any shadows on our current economic status.

a reply to: 727Sky

The Australian stock market the "all ordinaries" has been doing very well, currently within 1% of its all time highs.
Hasn't seen a 3% down day in a while other than the usual month end pull backs.

Compare that with other major markets that are well off their all time highs..

Japan Nikkei 225 -7.9%
German DAX -5.7%
UK FTSE -8.5%
China Hang Seng -25%

GDP in China sank to 6% 3rd quarter which is still a very good number, so their overproduction problems must be longer term.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I live in America. You live in America. That doesn’t mean we both know what’s going on in America. I’ve been poor before and am upper middle now too. However, that doesn’t mean that you or I know what it’s like for the vast majority of poor and middle class. There are, however, investigative journalists, reporters, and authors who have specifically travelled all around the nation doing research on what life is like for working class Americans. Who actually went around and met these people, talked to them, looked into their situation. And then write books or documentaries on it. People like chris hedges, for instance. There’s also statistics. By reading these books, watching these documentaries, looking at these statistics, you can develop a realistic picture of what life is like in these many places. That’s called gathering information to make an informed opinion.

Or, on the other hand, you can just judge all other people by your own, limited, personal experience. Disregarding all the studies, research, and statistics. Which is how the us has become one of the largest anti science societies in the advanced world.

When you realize how easy it is to have falsified data published in a journal, of course people are going to be wary of "Science".

Just like how the "New York Times Bestseller List" is actually fake.

I can do research and come up with statistics for something, and make it seem worse than it is by leaving out a key metric here, or a key variable there.

Life for working class Americans will vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. I can say for instance, that life in California is terribly hard for the working class because the federal government has lowered taxes. I can provide statistics to reflect this, while also leaving out the cost of living and state tax rates, and the impact of immigration, illegal or otherwise. I could even leave out that 20% of those interviewed felt vices were more important than a adding to a savings account. I guarantee I can show that to some Bernie supporters and they will eat it up.

a reply to: pexx421
Have you ever experienced life outside of the USA? You find statistics to make good news bad (fun at parties I bet) but if you compare life to many other countries on the planet, you'll soon find out that you have it better than most even if you're below the poverty line.

forbes.com - America's poor still live better than most of the rest of humanity

Try to enjoy life a little pexx. It's going to end one day.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

First off I’ve worked with the poor and homeless in mental health. I’d say I have a fair assessment of what their life is like. And to say it’s better than something else is ludicrous. They are homeless, hungry, depressed and often suicidal. Subject to extreme temperatures for extended periods, subject to violence and abuse.
And I served and spent time in 3rd world countries so yes, I’ve seen their poverty too. I wouldn’t want to choose between them.

And secondly, you misunderstand me. My life is great, and I enjoy it very much. I also dislike seeing injustice, and there’s plenty of it around. You live in a nation that’s an empire in decline, beset with insecurity, escalating tensions, and declining quality of life. To go around believing that our country is doing great is irrational. I’ve lived through the 70’s 80’s and 90’s and the things going on now never or rarely happened back then. The longer people buy into the “it’s going great” fallacy, the longer it will take for us to start working on correcting it, and the worse it will be.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I live in America. You live in America. That doesn’t mean we both know what’s going on in America. I’ve been poor before and am upper middle now too. However, that doesn’t mean that you or I know what it’s like for the vast majority of poor and middle class. There are, however, investigative journalists, reporters, and authors who have specifically travelled all around the nation doing research on what life is like for working class Americans. Who actually went around and met these people, talked to them, looked into their situation. And then write books or documentaries on it. People like chris hedges, for instance. There’s also statistics. By reading these books, watching these documentaries, looking at these statistics, you can develop a realistic picture of what life is like in these many places. That’s called gathering information to make an informed opinion.

Or, on the other hand, you can just judge all other people by your own, limited, personal experience. Disregarding all the studies, research, and statistics. Which is how the us has become one of the largest anti science societies in the advanced world.

When you realize how easy it is to have falsified data published in a journal, of course people are going to be wary of "Science".

Just like how the "New York Times Bestseller List" is actually fake.

I can do research and come up with statistics for something, and make it seem worse than it is by leaving out a key metric here, or a key variable there.

Life for working class Americans will vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. I can say for instance, that life in California is terribly hard for the working class because the federal government has lowered taxes. I can provide statistics to reflect this, while also leaving out the cost of living and state tax rates, and the impact of immigration, illegal or otherwise. I could even leave out that 20% of those interviewed felt vices were more important than a adding to a savings account. I guarantee I can show that to some Bernie supporters and they will eat it up.

You’re right. It will vary from state to state. And when those are all averaged out it’s worse across the board than it was. Wages have been stagnant over the last 40 years while our nation grew massively wealthier. Middle class jobs have been replaced with service sector gig economy. Drug addiction and suicide are increasing due to hopelessness and lack of opportunity. Sure, there’s some opportunity. Like how in the dessert there’s some water.

Part-Time employment has almost tripled since the late 1960's encompassing over a quarter of the US work force. Full time employment for skilled workers over 50 is almost non existent. Also, full time workers are forced to work for a discount. The US economy sucks.

originally posted by: eManym
Part-Time employment has almost tripled since the late 1960's encompassing over a quarter of the US work force. The US economy sucks.

Yep, it's how they fudge the numbers, more people are working but still can't pay the bills, lucky they have access to credit, when that bubble bursts we will see some tears.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I live in America. You live in America. That doesn’t mean we both know what’s going on in America. I’ve been poor before and am upper middle now too. However, that doesn’t mean that you or I know what it’s like for the vast majority of poor and middle class. There are, however, investigative journalists, reporters, and authors who have specifically travelled all around the nation doing research on what life is like for working class Americans. Who actually went around and met these people, talked to them, looked into their situation. And then write books or documentaries on it. People like chris hedges, for instance. There’s also statistics. By reading these books, watching these documentaries, looking at these statistics, you can develop a realistic picture of what life is like in these many places. That’s called gathering information to make an informed opinion.

Or, on the other hand, you can just judge all other people by your own, limited, personal experience. Disregarding all the studies, research, and statistics. Which is how the us has become one of the largest anti science societies in the advanced world.

When you realize how easy it is to have falsified data published in a journal, of course people are going to be wary of "Science".

Just like how the "New York Times Bestseller List" is actually fake.

I can do research and come up with statistics for something, and make it seem worse than it is by leaving out a key metric here, or a key variable there.

Life for working class Americans will vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. I can say for instance, that life in California is terribly hard for the working class because the federal government has lowered taxes. I can provide statistics to reflect this, while also leaving out the cost of living and state tax rates, and the impact of immigration, illegal or otherwise. I could even leave out that 20% of those interviewed felt vices were more important than a adding to a savings account. I guarantee I can show that to some Bernie supporters and they will eat it up.

You’re right. It will vary from state to state. And when those are all averaged out it’s worse across the board than it was. Wages have been stagnant over the last 40 years while our nation grew massively wealthier. Middle class jobs have been replaced with service sector gig economy. Drug addiction and suicide are increasing due to hopelessness and lack of opportunity. Sure, there’s some opportunity. Like how in the dessert there’s some water.

And why do you think that is?

Read up on Detroit, prior to the Model Cities act. Detroit was THE wealthiest city in America. Household median income was above the national average, education investment was above the national average, it was the place to live. Now look at it. Democrat policies destroyed the city, and manufacturing. The south is in a terrible place because of Dem policies as well. Read about "The Solid South". For instance, Alabama Republicans claimed the House and Senate for the first time in 136 years back in 2010.

Wage stagnation is due to an over-abundance of labor. Its simple supply and demand. If you can't find workers readily available, then you either go out of business or make the job offer enticing enough for people to come and apply. And you might say that they'll just go overseas. Entice them to stay. Entice them to come back.

Drug addiction as always been a problem, and its not just because of the reasons you state. Suicide increases, I'd wager, are due to the uptick in social media use. Our technology has surpassed our cultural maturity. Among many other factors of course. Financial burdens have always been one reason, and with the predatory lending practices of colleges, especially after college debt was nationalized, play a large role I'm sure.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I live in America. You live in America. That doesn’t mean we both know what’s going on in America. I’ve been poor before and am upper middle now too. However, that doesn’t mean that you or I know what it’s like for the vast majority of poor and middle class. There are, however, investigative journalists, reporters, and authors who have specifically travelled all around the nation doing research on what life is like for working class Americans. Who actually went around and met these people, talked to them, looked into their situation. And then write books or documentaries on it. People like chris hedges, for instance. There’s also statistics. By reading these books, watching these documentaries, looking at these statistics, you can develop a realistic picture of what life is like in these many places. That’s called gathering information to make an informed opinion.

Or, on the other hand, you can just judge all other people by your own, limited, personal experience. Disregarding all the studies, research, and statistics. Which is how the us has become one of the largest anti science societies in the advanced world.

When you realize how easy it is to have falsified data published in a journal, of course people are going to be wary of "Science".

Just like how the "New York Times Bestseller List" is actually fake.

I can do research and come up with statistics for something, and make it seem worse than it is by leaving out a key metric here, or a key variable there.

Life for working class Americans will vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. I can say for instance, that life in California is terribly hard for the working class because the federal government has lowered taxes. I can provide statistics to reflect this, while also leaving out the cost of living and state tax rates, and the impact of immigration, illegal or otherwise. I could even leave out that 20% of those interviewed felt vices were more important than a adding to a savings account. I guarantee I can show that to some Bernie supporters and they will eat it up.

You’re right. It will vary from state to state. And when those are all averaged out it’s worse across the board than it was. Wages have been stagnant over the last 40 years while our nation grew massively wealthier. Middle class jobs have been replaced with service sector gig economy. Drug addiction and suicide are increasing due to hopelessness and lack of opportunity. Sure, there’s some opportunity. Like how in the dessert there’s some water.

And why do you think that is?

Read up on Detroit, prior to the Model Cities act. Detroit was THE wealthiest city in America. Household median income was above the national average, education investment was above the national average, it was the place to live. Now look at it. Democrat policies destroyed the city, and manufacturing. The south is in a terrible place because of Dem policies as well. Read about "The Solid South". For instance, Alabama Republicans claimed the House and Senate for the first time in 136 years back in 2010.

Wage stagnation is due to an over-abundance of labor. Its simple supply and demand. If you can't find workers readily available, then you either go out of business or make the job offer enticing enough for people to come and apply. And you might say that they'll just go overseas. Entice them to stay. Entice them to come back.

Drug addiction as always been a problem, and its not just because of the reasons you state. Suicide increases, I'd wager, are due to the uptick in social media use. Our technology has surpassed our cultural maturity. Among many other factors of course. Financial burdens have always been one reason, and with the predatory lending practices of colleges, especially after college debt was nationalized, play a large role I'm sure.

Oh, I know why it is, and I think you’re pretty far off. You say due to democrat policies. That’s true if you mean neoliberal policies and those are the same policies supported by the republicans. And they’re also the reason you’re “supply and demand” falls short. In the right lean, but short. It’s supply and demand but it’s anything but simple. They intentionally create a labor surplus exactly through those neoliberal policies through use of lax immigration policy and outsourcing. That’s what all out “trade partnerships “ are all about. And it’s nice to say “entice them to stay” except that that’s against the policies that our representatives are bribed to create. So that’s not going to happen with our government. And what have they done to reverse outsourcing and illegals working? Nothing effective.

As to higher suicide rates, according to most research it’s largely linked to financial stress. Not being able to pay bills is extremely stressful, and effects every facet of a persons life. Recent studies show that when a person has bills they can’t pay the stress from that alone is enough to significantly effect their IQ, which inhibits their ability to make good decisions. And we have a massive segment of the population in just that situation.

Here ya go. Over 50% of Americans making $15 an hour, and a large segment barely above that!

thefreethoughtproject.com...

Good job on the “bright American economy”!

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I live in America. You live in America. That doesn’t mean we both know what’s going on in America. I’ve been poor before and am upper middle now too. However, that doesn’t mean that you or I know what it’s like for the vast majority of poor and middle class. There are, however, investigative journalists, reporters, and authors who have specifically travelled all around the nation doing research on what life is like for working class Americans. Who actually went around and met these people, talked to them, looked into their situation. And then write books or documentaries on it. People like chris hedges, for instance. There’s also statistics. By reading these books, watching these documentaries, looking at these statistics, you can develop a realistic picture of what life is like in these many places. That’s called gathering information to make an informed opinion.

Or, on the other hand, you can just judge all other people by your own, limited, personal experience. Disregarding all the studies, research, and statistics. Which is how the us has become one of the largest anti science societies in the advanced world.

When you realize how easy it is to have falsified data published in a journal, of course people are going to be wary of "Science".

Just like how the "New York Times Bestseller List" is actually fake.

I can do research and come up with statistics for something, and make it seem worse than it is by leaving out a key metric here, or a key variable there.

Life for working class Americans will vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. I can say for instance, that life in California is terribly hard for the working class because the federal government has lowered taxes. I can provide statistics to reflect this, while also leaving out the cost of living and state tax rates, and the impact of immigration, illegal or otherwise. I could even leave out that 20% of those interviewed felt vices were more important than a adding to a savings account. I guarantee I can show that to some Bernie supporters and they will eat it up.

You’re right. It will vary from state to state. And when those are all averaged out it’s worse across the board than it was. Wages have been stagnant over the last 40 years while our nation grew massively wealthier. Middle class jobs have been replaced with service sector gig economy. Drug addiction and suicide are increasing due to hopelessness and lack of opportunity. Sure, there’s some opportunity. Like how in the dessert there’s some water.

And why do you think that is?

Read up on Detroit, prior to the Model Cities act. Detroit was THE wealthiest city in America. Household median income was above the national average, education investment was above the national average, it was the place to live. Now look at it. Democrat policies destroyed the city, and manufacturing. The south is in a terrible place because of Dem policies as well. Read about "The Solid South". For instance, Alabama Republicans claimed the House and Senate for the first time in 136 years back in 2010.

Wage stagnation is due to an over-abundance of labor. Its simple supply and demand. If you can't find workers readily available, then you either go out of business or make the job offer enticing enough for people to come and apply. And you might say that they'll just go overseas. Entice them to stay. Entice them to come back.

Drug addiction as always been a problem, and its not just because of the reasons you state. Suicide increases, I'd wager, are due to the uptick in social media use. Our technology has surpassed our cultural maturity. Among many other factors of course. Financial burdens have always been one reason, and with the predatory lending practices of colleges, especially after college debt was nationalized, play a large role I'm sure.

Oh, I know why it is, and I think you’re pretty far off. You say due to democrat policies. That’s true if you mean neoliberal policies and those are the same policies supported by the republicans. And they’re also the reason you’re “supply and demand” falls short. In the right lean, but short. It’s supply and demand but it’s anything but simple. They intentionally create a labor surplus exactly through those neoliberal policies through use of lax immigration policy and outsourcing. That’s what all out “trade partnerships “ are all about. And it’s nice to say “entice them to stay” except that that’s against the policies that our representatives are bribed to create. So that’s not going to happen with our government. And what have they done to reverse outsourcing and illegals working? Nothing effective.

As to higher suicide rates, according to most research it’s largely linked to financial stress. Not being able to pay bills is extremely stressful, and effects every facet of a persons life. Recent studies show that when a person has bills they can’t pay the stress from that alone is enough to significantly effect their IQ, which inhibits their ability to make good decisions. And we have a massive segment of the population in just that situation.

You took my point and expanded on it. Thanks. And we've been enticing them for a couple years now, and its working. Companies are leaving China, and some are returning here. Rome wasn't built in a day, however.

And yeah, we have a segment of the population that weren't taught about credit, and have an obsessive need for instant gratification. So you're suggesting they've gotten dumber because of stress, And I say it's because of ignorance to begin with, and they set themselves up for failure, and then become stressed when they have to face the reality of their situation. A policy Dems, or "neoliberals" haven't championed for as long as I can remember: Live within your means.

originally posted by: pexx421
Here ya go. Over 50% of Americans making $15 an hour, and a large segment barely above that!

thefreethoughtproject.com...

Good job on the “bright American economy”!

You should read that full article. It seems to take a conservative stance and blame government control freaks stifling people abilities to become self-employed. Get government out of the way. The left wants to raise everyone's taxes and create more government bureaucracy.