The problematic nukes at Incirlik air base in Turkey

There’s a rumor that Turkey is preventing us from removing our tactical nukes from Incirlik. I don’t know if we’ve actually tried to remove or even considered removing them, but we should do so as soon as the opportunity arises, if ever. If the Turks hold them hostage, so to speak, by implicit or implied blockade, we should disable them in place. The big problem though, is what to do with the fissile material in the bomb “pits.” My admittedly limited understanding is that the hardest part of building a nuke is making the highly enriched fissile material. There are reportedly ~50 nukes at Incirlik, probably B61s with plutonium 239 pits. Does anyone at ATS know if there’s a practical way that plutonium 239 can be rendered incapable of causing a nuclear explosion? Could it be done on-site?

We should have pulled those nukes when Erdogan took office and ended the tradition of secular government in Turkey. I assume nukes were originally placed there to deter Russia from invading Turkey. I don’t know how that was justified; we didn’t tolerate Soviet nukes in Cuba. The distance from Incirlik to Moscow is about the same distance as Havana to Boston.

a reply to: Scapegrace

Do you have any links?

I have read that they were moved years ago. Are we sure they are really still there?

My friend...if the US wanted those nukes out they would land a plane or planes, load them up, and fly them out. Turkey wouldn't dare risk a real war against the US by shooting at the planes tasked with flying them out. They might act tough in their neighborhood because they have the worlds 5th largest military...but compared to the US it'd be shooting fish in a barrel and they know it. Most of their equipment was either made by a NATO country for export (meaning not the top of the line cutting edge that those who developed the system usually don't export) or more recently Russian equipment (which doesn't interface with NATO stuff which makes battlefield networking hard something US is great at). It isn't even a worry buddy!

Well, accidentally set em off. That's sarcasm boys.

a reply to: Scapegrace

obvious questions :

1 - explain coherently how the turks can prevent any item [ that is air trasportable ] leaving a US airbase

The US would not store nukes in any country unless they have someone accountable to the military there to safeguard them. I am sure that they are in a secure Turkey location, like a Turkish base. I do not know how many personal they would have there and I am sure part of the agreement would be that Turkey is supposed to help them for a set rental contract price. So we give them money to keep the nukes there and to provide a place for the people who are overseeing them I would guess. Now our Airforce probably has some planes landing there regularly and probably keeps some stationed there in rotation.

I read about that many many years ago when we started putting nukes around Russia.

Now here is my question....Did Turkey run a coup against our soldiers there and kill any of them or imprison them? I would guess they would have neutralized the resistance which would be us if they are holding our nukes hostage. Other countries also store nukes in other countries, that would not be a wise thing for Turkey to do. I do not know how much of circulating rumors are correct, but I do know no country would just park nukes in another country without having some military there to watch after them.

So, did anyone get hurt if They seized control of the section of the Turkish base, that would be an act of war if they did.

There are 50 b61's there....god knows why. Im not even sure when they put them there.

They have a mechanism to destroy them. There is a plug thats kept seperate from the bomb itself. You insert it..set the code dials, select di and pull thd t handle.

I used to load em.😁



a reply to: Scapegrace

The hardest part about building a nuclear weapon is timing the initial HE detonations which compress the “pit” to critical mass, and hold it there long enough for the chain reaction to occur.

Otherwise, all you get is a “dirty bomb” explosion.

a reply to: Scapegrace

Hi Scapegrace, the MSN headlines in recent weeks regarding the security of the current NATO tactical stockpile stored at Incirlik AFB are scary, especially if a person is unfamiliar with the design and handling procedures of “ special weapons”.

Please take 10 minutes and watch the video posted below, the narrator is well informed and will provide you with a basic overview of the actual facts awnsering your questions and concerns.

Once you have familiarized yourself a bit more with both the philosophical and technical doctrine in place to oversee the safety of our nuclear stockpile you will sleep a little easier at night.

In all likelihood the physics packages for the couple dozen B61’s in
Turkey are already well out of harms.If they are still fully assembled on Turkish soil, they are 1000% under positive U.S. control and not Recep Erdagon, Vladimir Putin or the devil himself has any possibility of challenging the U.S. defense forces tasked with their security.



If you are interested in a more in depth study let me know and I’ll post a link to a fantastic series produced by the Sandia Nuclear Weapons Laboratory that goes into great detail regarding any questions you might have.

it’s about 3 hours of programming and probably a bit more of a commitment than what you are looking for to awnser your question as posted?

a reply to: Scapegrace

1. The notion the nukes are being "held hostage" is just the MSM whipping everyone up into a lather to get them chanting "Impeach Trump!" from every rooftop. The nukes are not being 'held hostage' by anyone. They are under US control. Don't be fooled by the "press-titutes", they're just a bunch of liars.

2. Nukes in general, are harder to make detonate than not. So, just having them doesn't mean anyone could use them.

The B-61's, if they they are even there at all, were placed there as a political gesture to Turkey as part of the alliance with the US and NATO. If I was a betting man, I'd bet the real nukes were rotated out years ago in favor of look alike dummies.

Even if the weapons were being 'held hostage' there is still no way for the bombs to be armed without the proper codes and equipment.

The B61 is armed by ground-based personnel via an access panel located on the side of the bomb, which opens to reveal 9 dials, 2 sockets and a T-handle which manually triggers the "command disable" function. One of the sockets is a MC4142 "strike enable" plug which must be inserted in order to complete critical circuits in the safety/arming and firing mechanisms. The other socket is the PAL connector located in the top right hand corner of the arming panel, which has 23 pins marked with alphabetic letter codes.[16]

The B61 also features a "command disable" mechanism, which functions as follows: after entering the correct 3-digit numeric code it is then possible to turn a dial to "DI" and pull back a T-shaped handle which comes away in the user's hand. This action releases a spring-loaded firing pin which fires the percussion cap on an MC4246A thermal battery, powering it up. Electrical power from the thermal battery is sufficient to "fry" the internal circuitry of the bomb, destroying critical mechanisms without causing detonation. This makes the bomb incapable of being used. Any B61 which has had the command disable facility used must be returned to Pantex for repair.[16]

Source

The reason they're not being moved (again, IF they're even there, which is doubtful) is because their removal would undo an elaborate theoretical NATO defense strategy for western Europe. The troop reduction is designed to send a message to Turkey that they need to play by the rules which put the weapons there in the first place. They have strayed in recent years from the original deal. It's a serious message.

The real facts, contrary to the rantings of the MSM, are Turkey is probably shaking in their boots at the notion of the liability in the political sphere due to the reduced US presence, shifting the liability for protecting these weapons onto Turkey.

Bottom line; you don't have to worry about Osama Bin Hidin' running around with shoulder fired B-61's any time soon.

ETA - Oh, and one more thing. Any country with an IQ above about 12 should know every single one of those bunkers has a gigantic electronic bullseye painted on it, so the minute anyone tried to monkey with those weapons they would be blown sky high...creating a massive environmental catastrophe right in Turkey's front yard. This is the last thing they'd want! The MSM really thinks people are idiots!

More glorified headlines for clicks (revenue) from clueless news .
And , a buncha crap trying to up the anti-Trump propaganda I suppose.

Disclaimer - I am not a veterinarian , but I know bullsh__ when I see it.

a reply to: Scapegrace

Total utter nonsense.

Or as my friends across the pond might say - Bollocks!

Use some common sense, will ya?

This doesn't even pass the first whiff of the smell test...

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Scapegrace

obvious questions :

1 - explain coherently how the turks can prevent any item [ that is air trasportable ] leaving a US airbase

Coherently? Let’s see: by using surface-to-air missiles; antiaircraft artillery; fighter jets equipped with air-to-air missiles and cannon; ground troops shelling the airfield with artillery and surface-to-surface rockets; tanks, IFVs and heavy machine guns firing on aircraft landing or taking off. If you’re implying they’d be too frightened of us to interfere with an airlift, you may be right. Or you could be wrong. Can you think of a good reason why we haven’t removed them already?

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: Scapegrace

Do you have any links?

I have read that they were moved years ago. Are we sure they are really still there?

There are many sites that state they’re still there. B61 nuclear bombs Incirlik as key words and you’ll see a bunch of them, and quite reputable.

originally posted by: RickyD
My friend...if the US wanted those nukes out they would land a plane or planes, load them up, and fly them out. Turkey wouldn't dare risk a real war against the US by shooting at the planes tasked with flying them out. They might act tough in their neighborhood because they have the worlds 5th largest military...but compared to the US it'd be shooting fish in a barrel and they know it. Most of their equipment was either made by a NATO country for export (meaning not the top of the line cutting edge that those who developed the system usually don't export) or more recently Russian equipment (which doesn't interface with NATO stuff which makes battlefield networking hard something US is great at). It isn't even a worry buddy!

I hope you’re right. I think they’re safe as long as we don’t try to move them. But I’d feel kbetter if they were removed or made harmless on site. I realize it wouldn’t be hard to make the bombs inoperable, but the fissile material would remain. I suspect Turkey could make a nuke if it had bomb-grade fissile material. Hell, they could almost certainly make nukes starting from scratch if that’s what they want. Pakistan did it. Even Libya had a surprisingly advanced nuclear weapons program going before Gaddafi revealed it publicly in 2003 and stated he wanted to end it (we helped dismantle it).

originally posted by: Drunkenparrot
a reply to: Scapegrace

Hi Scapegrace, the MSN headlines in recent weeks regarding the security of the current NATO tactical stockpile stored at Incirlik AFB are scary, especially if a person is unfamiliar with the design and handling procedures of “ special weapons”.

Please take 10 minutes and watch the video posted below, the narrator is well informed and will provide you with a basic overview of the actual facts awnsering your questions and concerns.

Once you have familiarized yourself a bit more with both the philosophical and technical doctrine in place to oversee the safety of our nuclear stockpile you will sleep a little easier at night.

In all likelihood the physics packages for the couple dozen B61’s in
Turkey are already well out of harms.If they are still fully assembled on Turkish soil, they are 1000% under positive U.S. control and not Recep Erdagon, Vladimir Putin or the devil himself has any possibility of challenging the U.S. defense forces tasked with their security.

If you are interested in a more in depth study let me know and I’ll post a link to a fantastic series produced by the Sandia Nuclear Weapons Laboratory that goes into great detail regarding any questions you might have.

it’s about 3 hours of programming and probably a bit more of a commitment than what you are looking for to awnser your question as posted?

Thanks for your informative post. So you think it’s possible the physics packages have already been flown out of there? That would be a relief!

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Scapegrace

1. The notion the nukes are being "held hostage" is just the MSM whipping everyone up into a lather to get them chanting "Impeach Trump!" from every rooftop. The nukes are not being 'held hostage' by anyone. They are under US control. Don't be fooled by the "press-titutes", they're just a bunch of liars.

2. Nukes in general, are harder to make detonate than not. So, just having them doesn't mean anyone could use them.

The B-61's, if they they are even there at all, were placed there as a political gesture to Turkey as part of the alliance with the US and NATO. If I was a betting man, I'd bet the real nukes were rotated out years ago in favor of look alike dummies.

Even if the weapons were being 'held hostage' there is still no way for the bombs to be armed without the proper codes and equipment.

The B61 is armed by ground-based personnel via an access panel located on the side of the bomb, which opens to reveal 9 dials, 2 sockets and a T-handle which manually triggers the "command disable" function. One of the sockets is a MC4142 "strike enable" plug which must be inserted in order to complete critical circuits in the safety/arming and firing mechanisms. The other socket is the PAL connector located in the top right hand corner of the arming panel, which has 23 pins marked with alphabetic letter codes.[16]

The B61 also features a "command disable" mechanism, which functions as follows: after entering the correct 3-digit numeric code it is then possible to turn a dial to "DI" and pull back a T-shaped handle which comes away in the user's hand. This action releases a spring-loaded firing pin which fires the percussion cap on an MC4246A thermal battery, powering it up. Electrical power from the thermal battery is sufficient to "fry" the internal circuitry of the bomb, destroying critical mechanisms without causing detonation. This makes the bomb incapable of being used. Any B61 which has had the command disable facility used must be returned to Pantex for repair.[16]

Source

The reason they're not being moved (again, IF they're even there, which is doubtful) is because their removal would undo an elaborate theoretical NATO defense strategy for western Europe. The troop reduction is designed to send a message to Turkey that they need to play by the rules which put the weapons there in the first place. They have strayed in recent years from the original deal. It's a serious message.

The real facts, contrary to the rantings of the MSM, are Turkey is probably shaking in their boots at the notion of the liability in the political sphere due to the reduced US presence, shifting the liability for protecting these weapons onto Turkey.

Bottom line; you don't have to worry about Osama Bin Hidin' running around with shoulder fired B-61's any time soon.

ETA - Oh, and one more thing. Any country with an IQ above about 12 should know every single one of those bunkers has a gigantic electronic bullseye painted on it, so the minute anyone tried to monkey with those weapons they would be blown sky high...creating a massive environmental catastrophe right in Turkey's front yard. This is the last thing they'd want! The MSM really thinks people are idiots!

Erdogan makes me uneasy. If he were to order the Turkish army to seize the base, I suspect we couldn’t stop them in time. It’s a big army and Incirlik is a long way from the USA. I doubt he’s going to do anything so rash, but if still seems prudent to at least remove the physics packages from such a volatile part of the world. I don’t see the advantage of having them there. If Turkey left NATO over their removal, I say good riddance.

a reply to: Scapegrace

Again...think about this from Turkey's perspective. What would the worlds largest military and economic super power do to a nation that not only attacked it but attacked it's nuclear arms. My god we would blot out the skys with ordiance before days end! Its not a thing anyone is going to do...they'd sooner go the korea route and find other nations to help you for money.

a reply to: Scapegrace

Erdogan makes me uneasy. If he were to order the Turkish army to seize the base, I suspect we couldn’t stop them in time.

Agree. What the US has at Incirlik is a joint US-Turkish base. Yes, the Turks could create all kinds of problems there by exerting pressure. They've already signaled capability once by cutting external power to the base. How long could we run on generators without any fuel resupply?

The real threat of any nukes that might be there is IMO the potential to use them to make dirty bombs.

Pre-Erdogan, this would not have been an issue. But with him in power, the potential for a chaotic sequence of events is heightened.

Frankly, when I hear people downplaying the prospect of something bad happening at Incirlik, the first thing I recall is how fast the Shah's regime collapsed. Nobody really expected a fanatic like Khomeini to oust the Shah and take the U.S. personnel in the embassy hostage. And nobody should underestimate the potential of Erdogan's regime to get up to bad action regarding our personnel at Incirlik.

Cheers

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: Scapegrace
Do you have any links?
I have read that they were moved years ago. Are we sure they are really still there?

those tactical nukes, reportedly B-61 warheads that dial-up their explosion yield... were said to have been taken away

...and I Questioned then, IF the Tactical explosives were actually 'Atomic Demolition Devices' which were leftover from the ColdWar era rather than Dial-Up Nukes that were adapted to several Delivery methods

I lobbied for the "Atomic Munitions" at 1-to-15kt, as they were effectively & decidedly Obsolete and were removed from the EU nations at the EU requests -> then stored in Turkey for eventual disassembly by the USA at advantageous future dates & costs