Idolizing Jesus and the idolizing the verses of the Bible

a reply to: GBP/JPY

like when I'm wild hog chasing at night

You sound more like a wolf than a lamb?

What's more it's sad when the Christians use the words God and "jesus" interchangeably. There should be a clear separation between God Almighty and His son

"And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? There is none good but One, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep all the commandments"

You are correct, there is a clear separation between Jesus and God, yet it is ignored by nearly all Christians.

originally posted by: whereislogic

It's a bit of a desperate attempt to cater to the market of people who want to see the Bible discredited, people with desperate hearts in turn. Of course, from a financial perspective, it's quite lucrative for someone like Atwill, cause that particular market is quite large in this system of things as promoted by the god of this system of things, Satan.

Hi whereislogic,

There surely are many who want to see the Bible gone, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be looking for issues and problems in every religion, being open minded but selective in the meantime. I've seen the Atwill's video and I take his observations very seriously regardless of his initial reasons, good, neutral or malicious. I then compare his conclusions with what I know, given also the kind of backwards world we live in. And I've concluded that there was a conspiracy in the creation of Christianity and that there were definite evil intentions of perverting God's real words (given through old prophets) to Israel and humanity, by the forces of darkness.
Likewise, I also think that there was a conspiracy in the creation of Islam as well, but that's something else.

To me it doesn't matter how large the Bible destroying market is, I simply follow the truth wherever it may lead, and I'm not alone in this journey - the Almighty guides me thru all this.

This communications revolution has led to information overload, as people are inundated by countless messages from every quarter. Many respond to this pressure by absorbing messages more quickly and accepting them without questioning or analyzing them.

True words, however there are some who do a really good job at analyzing the things coming towards us, and try to let others know.

The cunning propagandist loves such shortcuts—especially those that short-circuit rational thought. Propaganda encourages this by agitating the emotions, by exploiting insecurities, by capitalizing on the ambiguity of language, by bending rules of logic and by 'tickling people's ears' (which also includes the earlier mentioned agitating of the emotions and exploiting insecurites). As history bears out, such tactics can prove all too effective.

This sounds about right, but one issue is that this tactic can be used on all people the same, even on the people that think they know the truth, they themselves could be the mistaken ones. The truth in this world has become too convoluted to be expressed in simple terms.

Take for example the story of Adam and Eve, a true story but way different from the fairy-tale told later in Genesis. When Adam and Eve, two fine humble heroic beings, came into this world, the earth was a well populated planet. They were here to improve human DNA and contribute to human social and scientific development, but accidents happened and things took a different turn.
The sinful statement that followed that the "original sin stemmed from Adam and Eve's "sin"", so escaping completely the human personal responsibility for their sufferings, was a huge huge blow to the truth that humanity so desperately needs.

Whereas the big truth, the huge event of the angels' rebellion in other spiritual universes against God is barely mentioned in any religion. These angels were sent to physical universes such as our own, among other rough universes, as a punishment for what they did - and this is precisely the original sin that human beings made, and not the accidental sin of Eve and Adam. Yes, the people here on this planet were once upon a time angels that turned against God.

Finally, I base my arguments mainly on my relation /communication with God, that guides me through these difficult ancient subjects.

originally posted by: miri2019
a reply to: whereislogic

I've seen the Atwill's video and I take his observations very seriously ...

Even the alleged parallel that I used as an example from that poster on quora.com?

There are many problems with Atwill’s theory . First, the alleged parallels ; For example, Atwill says that when Jesus calls the disciples to be “fishers of men” this is a secret code related to a scene in the Jewish War. ... Atwill’s book is full of these “parallels” that exist only if you already believe Atwill’s argument!

Source: Was Titus Jesus? - Quora

Isn't that one a bit too far-fetched to take "very seriously"? The others are more of the same apparently. Reading parallels into the text that aren't there, and only can be seen by those who want to see them (and twist and turn their minds, thoughts and interpretations accordingly, to somehow make it fit in the eyes of biased beholders who already want to see it that way).

And I've concluded that there was a conspiracy in the creation of Christianity and that there were definite evil intentions of perverting God's real words (given through old prophets) to Israel and humanity, by the forces of darkness.

There's definitely a conspiracy, with the evil intention of perverting God's words, that developed in Christendom (the religions that profess to represent Christianity), but not the one Atwill is talking about. Actually, he makes sure that nothing about that conspiracy is in his book. It's the conspiracy that the Bible itself is talking about when it's talking about "the apostasy" such as at 2 Thessalonians 2:3:

3 Let no one lead you astray* [Or “seduce you.”] in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

Details about that subject can be found in this comment. More info:

Identifying “the Man of Lawlessness”
Man of Lawlessness (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)
Apostasy (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1)
Apostasy (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

There's a lot more "beneficial teaching" (2Tim 4:3,4) in just those links alone than in Atwill's entire book and all videos about it, and it'll take less time to read as well. It probably won't 'tickle your ears' though, as described at 2Tim 4:3,4 (I quoted that one at the start of the comment you were responding to, in case you want to read it again).

... Some people today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they come across. It is all too easy to absorb whatever is around us.

But it is far better for each individual personally to choose what he will feed his mind. It is said that we are what we eat, and this can apply to food for both the body and the mind. No matter what you are reading or watching or listening to, test to see whether it has propagandistic overtones or is truthful.

Moreover, if we want to be fair-minded, we must be willing to subject our own opinions to continual testing as we take in new information. We must realize that they are, after all, opinions. Their trustworthiness depends on the validity of our facts, on the quality of our reasoning, and on the standards or values that we choose to apply.

Source: Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda! (Awake!—2000)

As explained earlier:

Yes, the OP and Atwill's book is just standard anti-Bible propaganda catering to a market that desires to hear and believe this mental posion; or see any merit in discussing it, wasting their minds and thoughts on it, while they could be learning something much more beneficial from the Bible.

Like the truthful information about the actual conspiracy I was talking about in this comment. Not the imagined one that Atwill is selling (literally and figuratively).

I find that this guy has a good alternate way of expressing the "they will not put up with the wholesome* [beneficial] teaching" part of 2 Timothy 4:3,4, when he's talking about his "natural aversion to the Bible" that he used to have; as conditioned by this system of things, which he tries to describe as well. Perhaps his words resonate better with you. It works best if you interpret his usage of "them" as referring to "this system of things", "the god of this system of things", i.e. Satan, his demons and the humans he is manipulating that have a lot of influence in human society, i.e. this system of things, which includes the "teachers" mentioned at 2Tim 4:3,4. He doesn't seem to be aware of those teachings from the Bible regarding what he thinks of as "them". At 4:40 - 6:10 (also saying something relevant concerning this thread involving the expression "the Bible is control"; he talks a bit weird):

Keep in mind that the person in the video above probably still clings to twisted teachings that are not actually biblical. And probably also still feels this aversion wherever the bible teaches something that contradicts what he wants to believe about it. Luckily, he hardly discusses any such teachings as they are taught by various denominations in Christendom in that video. And the video still gives a nice insight into the mindset of those who look for information about conspiracies in all the wrong places following the pattern described at 2Tim 4:3,4 ('tickling people's ears' in that situation being also about intriguing people, getting their attention, the way the entertainment industry does it, and in this case, the Angels & Demons movie would be a good example, movies about conspiracies that share much in common with Atwill's book which in turn shares much in common with Dan Brown's novels; or the Zeitgeist documentary, more entertainment for a particular market).

What flavor of invisible and imaginary do you want? Jewish, Christian, Islam, Morman Scientology? Faith based religion s by ancients. I been a lurker awhile have to read all the religious , only difference between delusions is a bunch of people believe. I believe in rapture Heaven on Earth cause afterlife isn't you know....real. A system of control moral etiquette . I been a lurker and just about done with this site joined awhile. You've got a book people can't lie in books? See all the stuff about Christs cult been lurker 15 months. He is your savior think he saved you from death? While your here now. He had to give his life to save people? Everybody dies he committed a crime saying he was God. What about things in Bible proven wrong? That doesn't count?

a reply to: miri2019

Just remember regarding Atwill's book (or theory):

Much falsehood masquerades as truth today. “The learned fool,” once said Benjamin Franklin, “writes his nonsense in better language than the unlearned; but still ’tis nonsense.”

Those who walk in the light from God are also able to know what stand Christians should take regarding all kinds of theories, philosophies, traditions and doctrines. ... God’s Word is a light because it helps us recognize nonsense for what it is, despite its being clothed in the wraps of respectability and popularity. Warns the Bible: “Look out: perhaps there may be some man that will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.” The illuminating principles contained in the Bible enable even inexperienced ones to detect false wisdom. The psalmist said of Jehovah’s words: “The very disclosure of your words gives light, making the inexperienced ones understand.”—Col. 2:8; Ps. 119:130.

Source: Walk in the Light from God

In the city of Pompeii, it was the custom back then to write on the walls of buildings. Some shrewd reader and commentator of the writings of others had written on a wall in Pompeii the following in Latin: “It is a wonder, O wall, that thou hast not yet crumbled under the weight of so much written nonsense.”

Which would fit well on the back cover of Atwill's book as well, as the kind of health warning you see on cigarette packages. In this case, a mental health warning.

24,582,337 total posts on ATS and counting...

“It is a wonder, O wall, that thou hast not yet crumbled under the weight of so much written nonsense.”

Probably a good thing that it's not a brick wall that is used on ATS.

And no, I'm not implying that all of it is nonsense (in case someone feels like reading that into my words). If I have to do a quick assessment in which subforums most of the nonsense can be found, I'll go with (also considering the amount of posts):

aliens & ufo's
general conspiracies
the political forums (including the red one)
philosophy & metaphysics
religion, faith & theology
9/11 conspiracies
conspiracies in religions

It's not that important, the ones that stand out for me are the first 2 and the 4th, 5th and 7th in that list for me. The rest I sort of ordered based on number of posts, keeping the likelihood of nonsense being posted in mind considering the topic of that forum. It's a rough estimate or assessment anyway. Lots of conspiracy entertainment like Atwill's book as well. The problem is, it's not presented as mere entertainment unlike the movie Angels & Demons that I mentioned earlier (see 1Tim 6:20, or the ending of my comment at the end of page 1).

There's however a beneficial thing that can be taken away from all of it though, especially for diligent students of the Bible, it nicely demonstrates all the things the Bible has to say about it, including the behavioural patterns associated with it. It's really uncanny if you can see it, and understand it. Not easily brushed off as the work of mere men trying to control anyone (to come back to the phrase "the Bible is control" as used in the video I shared in my previous comment, or the theory/philosophy/idea/opinion/belief that "the Gospel was war-time occupational propaganda fabricated by the Romans to pacify the Jewish people" as it is described in the OP). But it rather serves as a warning and protection from the types of people that the Bible calls “profitless talkers” and “deceivers of the mind”. (Titus 1:10) Which includes those using propaganda and tickling people's ears, like Atwill.

It's not that surprising, after all, the Bible is the most widely distributed authority on human relations. And the books that came to be known as "the Gospels", could be argued to be its masterpiece (cause they contain the direct teachings of Jesus). Perhaps that has something to do with Atwill's desire to discredit them? And the desire of others to jump on the same bandwagon? Cause “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) “The original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth”. (Rev 12:9)

The word “gospel” is derived from the old English godspel, which means “good news; good tidings.” In some Bible translations, “gospel” is used to render the Greek word eu·ag·geʹli·on, meaning “good news.” (Mt 4:23; 24:14; Mr 1:14) As used in the Bible, the gospel, or good news, refers to the message about the Kingdom of God and of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.

“If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination* [Or “light.”] of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

originally posted by: whereislogic

Isn't that one a bit too far-fetched to take "very seriously"? The others are more of the same apparently. Reading parallels into the text that aren't there, and only can be seen by those who want to see them (and twist and turn their minds, thoughts and interpretations accordingly, to somehow make it fit in the eyes of biased beholders who already want to see it that way).

You see, the same bias argument works the same both ways. I read the quora.com link and I think that the writer there, is bringing his own biases into the discussion. It's kinda hard deciding who has or hasn't biases in such cases, only when the naked truth is shown, only then it'll be decided whose right and whose wrong. To me the credentials of someone don't mean much where truth is concerned. I can spot truth even when a liar is talking, I've no exception when it comes to the truths' sources.

Let's leave for a moment Atwill's theory and think about this other angle: Why jews themselves didn't/ don't accept "Christ" as their Messiah?! The prophets of old were accepted because their words were tested and proved to be true, and this entity "Christ" was completely different from the man the jews were waiting for. Let me repeat the creation of Christianity is a Roman conspiracy, done for many malicious reasons, which include possibly the pacification of Jews and this likely reason below, taken from your quora.com link:

These theories commonly include the suggestion that secret societies, mystery schools and other religions used the fictional story of Christ to unify the Roman Empire under one state religion.

Here is the thing, if one has already set his/her mind about something, it's very hard for that person to accept new viewpoints without taking off the glasses of bias.

Take this other example regarding the truthfulness of the old jewish prophets words. They warned many times that if (old) Israel continues to do the evil things it was doing, it will be destroyed and its people will be scattered all over the world and hated everywhere. Every word proved to be true, Israel sinned, it was destroyed, its people went all over the world and they were hated everywhere they were. This is what I call truth prophesied.

There's a lot more "beneficial teaching" (2Tim 4:3,4) in just those links alone than in Atwill's entire book and all videos about it, and it'll take less time to read as well. It probably won't 'tickle your ears' though,

I think I'm being confused for someone else - My ears don't tickle that easily, I'm a truth chaser. Case in point, there are untruths in the Old Testament which I call them for what they are, or so called "prophets" which lied and whose words were included in the same book, Old Testament.

I find that this guy has a good alternate way of expressing the "they will not put up with the wholesome* [beneficial] teaching" part of 2 Timothy 4:3,4, when he's talking about his "natural aversion to the Bible" that he used to have; as conditioned by this system of things, which he tries to describe as well. Perhaps his words resonate better with you.

I saw the video and it seems that this guy has knowledge about different conspiratorial subjects, but that doesn't mean that his final conclusion is the right one. I think you're mistaking me for someone that has a sort of aversion towards the "New Testament". The fact is, I dislike the lies, especially the big ones that have a deep impact on the people's lives, such as religions.

To end, I think that Christians are committing a sin when they idolize "Jesus" and the words of the Bible. The messenger of God doesn't want to be idolized, only God the Almighty is worthy of such adoration.

a reply to: LucifersChosen

...
I believe in rapture Heaven on Earth cause afterlife isn't you know....real.

Afterlife is totally real! There's way too much material out there to learn about it.
Note: the terms "past life", "next/after life" are misnomers, there's just one long eternal life (existence) consisting of different experiences in different universes and different spiritual/physical bodies.

...
He is your savior think he saved you from death? While your here now. He had to give his life to save people? Everybody dies he committed a crime saying he was God. What about things in Bible proven wrong? That doesn't count?

Exactly!


P.S.
I'd appreciate it if you're more coherent in your posting, thank you!

originally posted by: miri2019

I can spot truth even when a liar is talking, I've no exception when it comes to the truths' sources.

I somewhat doubt that (in all cases when a liar is talking that is, sometimes, sure, I can believe you can do that, anyone can at least once in their lives). You didn't even answer the questions I raised, or the question you quoted and thus 'responded' to (without an actual response).

The question you quoted may have been a bit rhetorical, but is still answerable (you can answer with "yes", "no", "maybe" or "maybe not" and then elaborate if you feel like it). The question before that wasn't rhetorical. Although they can sort of be seen as 1 question.

Previously you seemed to indicate that you feel the truth regarding this matter is too convoluted to be expressed in simple terms. When you said:

The truth in this world has become too convoluted to be expressed in simple terms.

I don't think the truth regarding this matter is convoluted at all. I find it easy to spot that the alleged "parallel" which my question was about, is false, nonsense, bogus, rather far-fetched. And those are some simple terms to express the truth of that particular matter.

a reply to: whereislogic

I somewhat doubt that (in all cases when a liar is talking that is, sometimes, sure, I can believe you can do that, anyone can at least once in their lives). You didn't even answer the questions I raised, or the question you quoted and thus 'responded' to (without an actual response).

If you doubt the others' ability to spot truths (or lies) when a liar speaks then that's a problem you might want to tackle yourself. I have no prejudices where the information comes from. What question did you raise that I somehow missed, or maybe you're wanting a certain answer from your questions that fits your expectations? Are you talking about this?

Isn't that one a bit too far-fetched to take "very seriously"? The others are more of the same apparently. Reading parallels into the text that aren't there, and only can be seen by those who want to see them (and twist and turn their minds, thoughts and interpretations accordingly, to somehow make it fit in the eyes.

I sure take Atwill's very seriously, if you think that I'm "reading parallels into the text that aren't there", maybe you first should take off the glasses of the bias from your eyes. Let me say it again: this fake entity called "Jesus" never existed and Christianity is conspiracy that has its roots in Vatican long ago, and these books called "New Testament", which are bundled together with true words of the old israelite prophets in the Old Testament, are a total distortion of the words of the true God, the God of Israel. That somehow God made a new agreement with Israel and world, thru so-called "the son of God, Jesus", it's a charade, a mockery of God's true words and punishable too. That now somehow "people are free from sin just by believing in Jesus" is a huge lie, that abdicates people from their personal responsibility when they commit sins. God punishes the same every one, christian and non-christian.

For the record, the messenger of God is coming into this earth pretty soon, but he won't be like the person that Christians (or many others) are waiting for. As a matter of fact he is already here on this planet and the forces of darkness call him "anti-christ" and sadly the majority of people unknowingly have bought into this lie and joined the chorus of the liars, parroting the same lies.

Previously you seemed to indicate that you feel the truth regarding this matter is too convoluted to be expressed in simple terms. When you said:

The truth in this world has become too convoluted to be expressed in simple terms.

I don't think the truth regarding this matter is convoluted at all. I find it easy to spot that the alleged "parallel" which my question was about, is false, nonsense, bogus, rather far-fetched. And those are some simple terms to express the truth of that particular matter.

Being simplistic doesn't mean one knows the whole complicated truth, but good for you that "you find it easy to spot that the alleged "parallel" which my question was about, is false, nonsense, bogus, rather far-fetched. And those are some simple terms to express the truth of that particular matter. "

a reply to: miri2019
Thanks, so your answer to the first question is "yes" ("I take that alleged parallel very seriously as well") and the 2nd question is "no" ("that alleged parallel is not too far-fetched to be taken very seriously, not even a little bit too far-fetched", perhaps it never even came up in your mind to see it as such and nothing I said seems to have made you seriously consider that as a possibility). Got it.

First question was based on your statement that "I've seen the Atwill's video and I take his observations very seriously ...". The question was:

Even the alleged parallel that I used as an example from that poster on quora.com?

The second follow-up question was:

Isn't that one a bit too far-fetched to take "very seriously"?

From those answers I can conclude that you probably don't care much about the truth concerning this subject (especially when it's not tickling your ears as Atwill's claims and arguments do, no matter how bad they are), nor is it very likely that you want to spot* or acknowledge anything as ridiculously far-fetched as the suggestion that "when Jesus calls the disciples to be “fishers of men” this is a secret code related to a scene in the Jewish War" (as being ridiculously far-fetched). Utter nonsense and a lie that is so blatant, that if one can't spot it and recognize it as such, their ability to spot lies/falsehoods/myths/false stories, either must be hampered regarding this particular subject or their will to spot or acknowledge them is (almost) non-existent regarding this particular subject. It's much more clear now (although I already suspected this to be the case, I argued for it previously when describing the situation in general using 2 Timothy 4:3,4). Thank you.

*: or if you can spot it, you are unwilling to acknowledge that it is ridiculously far-fetched, so ridiculously far-fetched, that ayone suggesting this can be taken "very seriously", is making a bit of a fool out of himself, and/or demonstrating an incredible amount of bias against the truths in the Bible concerning Jesus. To such an extent, that no matter how ridiculously far-fetched and bogus a false claim about Jesus is, as long as it's against the Bible (discredits the Bible), it's all 'good' (in their eyes), no matter how "bad" the argument is (like the argument that Jesus never existed, it's not an argument that I can take very seriously, it's even worse than arguing that Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great never existed). Isaiah 5:20,21:

20 Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,

Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,

Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes

And discreet in their own sight!

No offense intended, just calling 'm as I see 'm (I got the feeling you were getting a bit upset, or miffed because of that, so just pointing it out that that is not my intention; just trying to be honest with ye). Thank you for your participation of this demonstration of Bible truths (such as the ones described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4; describing your mindset and way of thinking about this subject).

“For it is the will of God that by doing good you may silence* [Lit., “muzzle.”] the ignorant talk of unreasonable men.” (1 Peter 2:15)

Being honest about something like this, is “doing good”. So I'm giving it my best shot.

originally posted by: miri2019

Afterlife is totally real! There's way too much material out there to learn about it.

I think when we die we go back to the source of all existence. When we go into the light, we look into the face of God and experience God's infinite beauty. I think from that moment we cease to exist. Why would you want to?

originally posted by: whereislogic
It's not that surprising, after all, the Bible is the most widely distributed authority on human relations. And the books that came to be known as "the Gospels", could be argued to be its masterpiece (cause they contain the direct teachings of Jesus). Perhaps that has something to do with Atwill's desire to discredit them?

I'm not sure Atwill had the motive to discredit the Gospels. It's just a fascinating theory. But it's just a theory.

I'm amazed by how people of faith have such weak faith. Why say anything at all. Just let Atwill be. If it's not your cup of tea then change the channel. The Japanese have a saying, "the first person to raise their voice in an argument, loses." You saying anything at all negative about Atill's motives says more about you and the strength of your faith. Why do you care, what are you protecting, why are you afraid is what you should be asking yourself.

It seems to be the idea of Jesus is profound on its own. I think the Beatitudes are groundbreaking. The idea of how we behave here and now having consequences with regards to our soul is profound. I'm just not a big fan of Paulinity way of appreciating Christianity. I think Paul put in his own philosophies into the Gospels. I'm just not convinced obedience to authority is what Jesus was teaching. Just remember there has only ever been one Christian and he died on the cross. Paul is not our savior.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

I'm not sure Atwill had the motive to discredit the Gospels.

Oh...

Don't make me laugh, I just took a zip of tea.

I actually found this whole conversation and accompanying demonstration, rather faith-strengthening. Regardless of whether or not you think I need that, it's all very telling. The main purpose of my commentary, is to help or encourage others to see it too (the things the Bible teaches about human behaviour, mindsets, behavioural patterns and ways of thinking and arguing, in particular concerning "beneficial teaching" from the Bible vs "false stories" or false claims about subjects in the Bible). As well as to follow Biblical counsel as to how to go about doing that. Of course I understand the likelihood of someone heavily affected by the teachers mentioned at 2 Timothy 4:3,4, to see it and become honest with themselves (applying a proper healthy form of self-reflection), is rather slim; but those are not the only types on ATS (even though they are in the majority). And slim is still better than non-existent, you never know how it might affect such a person in the long run. Maybe one day, they actually might wake up to their own foolishness and unreasonableness, both in their behaviour as their way of thinking about Biblical subjects such as Jesus' existence and identity.

How does God view the “wisdom” offered by human philosophy (like Atwill's ideas/philosophies about Jesus' existence and identity, or those acting as if there is any merit to them when thinking about or in discussions about reality/truth)?

1 Cor. 1:18-25: “For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is God’s power. For it is written: ‘I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual men I will shove aside.’ Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness [as it appears to the world] of what is preached to save those believing. . . . Because a foolish thing of God [as the world views it] is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God [as the world may see it] is stronger than men.” (Such a viewpoint on God’s part is certainly not arbitrary or unreasonable. He has provided in the Bible, the most widely circulated book in the world, a clear statement of his purpose. He has sent his witnesses, including Jesus*, to discuss it with all who will listen. How foolish for any creature to think that he has wisdom greater than that of God! *: see for example Rev 1:5 where Jesus is called “the Faithful Witness.” And at Revelation 3:14, Jesus calls himself “the faithful and true witness.”)

Proverbs 5:22,23: “The wicked one is ensnared by his own errors, and he will be caught in the ropes of his own sin. He will die for lack of discipline and go astray because of his excessive foolishness.” Proverbs 19:3: “It is a man’s own foolishness that distorts his way, and his heart becomes enraged against Jehovah.” Proverbs 14:8: “By wisdom the shrewd man understands the way he is going, but the stupid are deceived* [Or possibly, “the stupid deceive others.”] by their foolishness.”

Just a tiny sample of the Bible truths on display in this thread (and ATS in general for that matter).

originally posted by: whereislogic

Proverbs 5:22,23: “The wicked one is ensnared by his own errors, and he will be caught in the ropes of his own sin. He will die for lack of discipline and go astray because of his excessive foolishness.” Proverbs 19:3: “It is a man’s own foolishness that distorts his way, and his heart becomes enraged against Jehovah.” Proverbs 14:8: “By wisdom the shrewd man understands the way he is going, but the stupid are deceived* [Or possibly, “the stupid deceive others.”] by their foolishness.”

Ephesians 5:6-17: “Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore, do not be sharers with them; for you were once darkness, but you are now light in connection with the Lord. Go on walking as children of light, for the fruitage of the light consists of every sort of goodness and righteousness and truth. Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord; and stop sharing in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness; rather, expose them for what they are. For the things they do in secret are shameful even to mention. Now all the things that are being exposed* [Or “reproved.”] are made evident by the light, for everything that is being made evident is light. Therefore, it is said: “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and the Christ will shine upon you.”
So keep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as wise persons, making the best use of your time, because the days are wicked. On this account stop being unreasonable, but keep perceiving what the will of Jehovah is.”

For those who can see.

“Hear this, you foolish and senseless people:* [Lit., “you foolish people without heart.”] They have eyes but cannot see; They have ears but cannot hear. ... But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; They have turned aside and gone their own way.” (Jer 5:21,23) “And he replied, “Go, and say to this people: ‘You will hear again and again, but you will not understand; You will see again and again, but you will not get any knowledge.’” (Isa 6:9) “Son of man, you are living in a rebellious house. They have eyes to see, but they do not see, and ears to hear, but they do not hear, for they are a rebellious house.” (Eze 12:2) “That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it.” (Mt 13:13; Jesus teaching)

a reply to: whereislogic

From those answers I can conclude that you probably don't care much about the truth concerning this subject (especially when it's not tickling your ears as Atwill's claims and arguments do, no matter how bad they are), nor is it very likely that you want to spot* or acknowledge anything as ridiculously far-fetched as the suggestion that "when Jesus calls the disciples to be “fishers of men” this is a secret code related to a scene in the Jewish War" (as being ridiculously far-fetched).

I care a lot about truth, but calling "... as ridiculously far-fetched as the suggestion that "when Jesus calls the disciples to be “fishers of men” this is a secret code related to a scene in the Jewish War"..." means you have total knowledge of the ancient jewish wars. Now do you have such a complete knowledge about the past? Are you sure that the sources you're quoting are truthful? What does make you think that the “fishers of men” is not a secret code related to a scene in the Jewish War? Do you have an established continual communication with the Divine, so that you might know the whole truth?

Quoting a source doesn't mean the source is precise about its content and your source of quora.com was full of bias as well. People tend to look for information in the sources that favor their biases.

*: or if you can spot it, you are unwilling to acknowledge that it is ridiculously far-fetched, so ridiculously far-fetched, that ayone suggesting this can be taken "very seriously", is making a bit of a fool out of himself, and/or demonstrating an incredible amount of bias against the truths in the Bible concerning Jesus. To such an extent, that no matter how ridiculously far-fetched and bogus a false claim about Jesus is, as long as it's against the Bible (discredits the Bible), it's all 'good' (in their eyes), no matter how "bad" the argument is (like the argument that Jesus never existed, it's not an argument that I can take very seriously, it's even worse than arguing that Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great never existed).

Much talk, little essence above. Saying that "as long as it's against the Bible (discredits the Bible), it's all 'good' (in their eyes)" is untruthful. In the above posting I made myself clear what constitutes the Bible, my attitude towards it, and of my belief in the true one God. Please reread my above postings.

No offense intended, just calling 'm as I see 'm (I got the feeling you were getting a bit upset, or miffed because of that, so just pointing it out that that is not my intention; just trying to be honest with ye).

No offense taken, talking with passion is part of participating in a forum as long as the insults are not part of it.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: miri2019

Afterlife is totally real! There's way too much material out there to learn about it.

I think when we die we go back to the source of all existence. When we go into the light, we look into the face of God and experience God's infinite beauty. I think from that moment we cease to exist. Why would you want to?

My opinion differs, our existence continues, we can be conscious or "in a deep sleep", etc, but we continue to exist. I think that the majority of people when they die, they go to a certain area far from the beauty of God or the paradise of the religions. Going to paradise is a later stage in their spiritual evolution, there are a number of steps before that. But in any case we never cease to exist.