Brexit Delayed. Another defeat for Johnson

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: micpsi
It was part of a ploy because he knows that the unsigned letter has no legal force and therefore cannot be legally acted upon.

I agree that it's a ploy, but for a different (or perhaps an additional) reason. One key point is that he deliberately advertised the absence of signature. If he was being really sneaky, he could have left it unsigned and kept quiet about the fact. Why advertise? Because he WANTS the opposition to react with indignation. It's a winding-up exercise, like Donald Trump's tweeting. Reacting with indignation, they spend their mental energies (and money) on forcing him to add a signature- which cannot alter the fact that his intended message has already been heard by the EU leaders by a variety of routes. This distracts them from spending their mental energies on more practical matters like forcing him to accept any extension offered.

Well, I agree his deliberate advertising of omitting his signature was part of a wind-up to keep the opposition busy asking for things he is adamant they won't get. But he (and the rest of the Cabinet) keep saying that the Benn Act will not stop them from taking the country out of the EU by October 31. This has been interpreted as just meaning that they will try to get their new deal passed by the House of Commons. But I feel it means (and has always meant) something more serious than that. Boris said yesterday that he won't let the Benn Act stop him from achieving Brexit by October 31. This could be read as meaning that he has a legal way of circumventing it if he has to (and it looks ever more likely that he needs it). So I think adding no signature was more than just a psychological wind-up. I get the sense he did it for a deeper reason that may become clear soon. He was surely saying to the Remainer opposition in parliament that, having complied with the Benn Act deadline of October 19 to get a new deal, he is not going to ask for an extension because the Letwin amendment did not allow his bill to be voted on that day and so parliament stopped him from meeting this deadline. As it was not voted down, he has no legal compunction to ask for an extension until it HAS been voted down - hence his refusal to add his signature. He does not want to give any kind of legal backing or justification for an extension so that he (or some member states) can query the legality of the extension (in court if he has to) or, in the latter case they will veto it point blank because it amounts to an illegal request, having no official government signature, let alone support. I feel that this is just as much a legal ploy as a psychological one. It would explain cabinet members' apparent confidence (mysterious to many commentators) that they cannot be stopped by the Benn Act in taking the country out of the EU on October 31 if their deal is voted down by parliament.

I can't get my head around how remainer MPs proudly champion going against what the people voted for and call it democracy. It's now democratic to go against democracy? What's more worrying is that people believe it too, the times I hear remainers say 'democracy is being able to change your mind'. It's bizarre.

I agree with having a second referendum, it absolutely is the democratic thing to do - but only AFTER the result of the first vote has been delivered. Otherwise, why bother voting ever again if it's not going to be honoured?

Deliver Brexit, put all options on the table including 'no deal' to ensure a fair and balanced deal for both sides. And bin the 'law' that says 'no deal' must be off the table. It's not exactly democracy nor fair when they invent laws to force what they want by removing options.

Boris is up against a bunch of dirty players and he is using their tactics on them - just as they are delaying and obstructing Brexit, he's delaying and obstructing their obstruction. He is determined to deliver Brexit, I'm sure he has a few more simple and effective counter-treachery tricks up his sleeve.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

a reply to: gortex

The same could be said about the Tories, history will judge them that is.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: oldcarpy

What positive things would you have me say oldcarpy?

Where is the positivity in putting forward and tabling a deal that he knew would fail in parliament?

Positive???

Im positive that Boris is a complete and utter Tory bastard of the first order, out to line his own, and people just like hims pockets.

Ile get a grip, when the politicians and Boris start to make a modicum of sense, so no time soon.

So you prove my point.
All you have is hating on and sneering at Boris and the Tories.
Just like Corbyn.
No solutions just negativity.
Not the way forward really.

a reply to: doobydoll
Let's hope so.
The Hong Kong protesters seem to have the right idea.

a reply to: oldcarpy

So show us all your solutions.

Mobbing and rioting and emulating Hong Kong, you think that will work?

Could you organize cutting the head off our chickens?

Because when you are finished with your rioting and London is in flames "They" all need to be dead.

The only place you would end up is in a gaol cell screaming for your mammy most lightly whilst ten Polis beat you black and blue. x

So Becrow rejected the request to have another vote on the Johnson deal.
Could someone please explain why it is impossible to have another vote on the Johnson deal, while Mays deal was voted on three times?

a reply to: mightmight

Mostly because Bercow is completely biased and the loathsome little toad keeps getting away with it.
Remainer MPs are allowed to play their idiotic Westminster Bubble games and Brexit can't get a look in.
How can a supposedly unbiased Speaker get away with this crap?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: oldcarpy

So show us all your solutions.

Mobbing and rioting and emulating Hong Kong, you think that will work?

Could you organize cutting the head off our chickens?

Because when you are finished with your rioting and London is in flames "They" all need to be dead.

The only place you would end up is in a gaol cell screaming for your mammy most lightly whilst ten Polis beat you black and blue. x

Says the poster who on another thread advocated burning down Westminster with all "the bastards" inside?
That's your solution is it?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: alldaylong

So it's not just a toys out the pram attempt at Boris levity and discombobulation?

I thought the letter was on behalf of the ruling government of which Boris is supposed to be the head honcho?

Even if he has only won one vote in Parliament since his arrival.

Nothing to do with the fact that he said he would rather be dead in a ditch than go back to the EU cap in hand?

You do not seem to be able to grasp the simple fact that Boris does not actually have a majority.
Hence why he would v much like a GE.
Which the Opposition won't let us have. Because they know they will lose.
Don' t you want a GE either?
Yet you keep banging on about a Scots vote on independence.
Bring it on, put your money where your mouth is.
Yeah i know, cue you posting another "hilarious" anti tory meme.
Give it a rest.
Spare us!
Tories want to sell the nhs to Trump?
Got any evidence for this crap?
Or just more baseless propoganda?
Put up or shut up.
Which is it going to be?
Come on, lets have ya!

Brexit is a fascist coup on UK democracy. Perpetrated by Cambridge Analytica type actors and funded illegally.
Built on a campaign of lies and untruths. Exploiting racist views and paranoid driven xenophobia.
Designed to divide the UK and create parliamentary chaos.
There is nothing to be gained from separating from the EU and everything to lose by pushing this " advisory " referendum result through to it's damaging conclusion.
I hope there is an amendment added to the bill further on which allows for a final referendum so we can vote this down once and for all.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: oldcarpy

So show us all your solutions.

Mobbing and rioting and emulating Hong Kong, you think that will work?

Could you organize cutting the head off our chickens?

Because when you are finished with your rioting and London is in flames "They" all need to be dead.

The only place you would end up is in a gaol cell screaming for your mammy most lightly whilst ten Polis beat you black and blue. x

So your solution to the Chinese fascists cracking down on democracy in Hong Kong is that the people there should just roll over and take it?
Don't think you have thought this through.
Got a hilarious meme to post supporting the Chinese, eh?
Your solution to this is?

originally posted by: cosmickat



Brexit is a fascist coup on UK democracy. Perpetrated by Cambridge Analytica type actors and funded illegally.
Built on a campaign of lies and untruths. Exploiting racist views and paranoid driven xenophobia.
Designed to divide the UK and create parliamentary chaos.
There is nothing to be gained from separating from the EU and everything to lose by pushing this " advisory " referendum result through to it's damaging conclusion.
I hope there is an amendment added to the bill further on which allows for a final referendum so we can vote this down once and for all.

Oh do shut up for goodness sake

originally posted by: cosmickat



Brexit is a fascist coup on UK democracy. Perpetrated by Cambridge Analytica type actors and funded illegally.
Built on a campaign of lies and untruths. Exploiting racist views and paranoid driven xenophobia.
Designed to divide the UK and create parliamentary chaos.
There is nothing to be gained from separating from the EU and everything to lose by pushing this " advisory " referendum result through to it's damaging conclusion.
I hope there is an amendment added to the bill further on which allows for a final referendum so we can vote this down once and for all.

Well "we" voted to leave but lets just ignore that, shall we?
Give me strength....

Im on my phone and cant post a link but cromwell's speach to parliament seems most apt "Ye fractious crew" etc.
If someone could post a link i'd be eternally gratefull?
Bless you hearts.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Oliver Cromwell: 'In the name of God, go!' speech dismissing Rump Parliament - 1653

source

20 April 1653, London, England
It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice.
Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government...

👍❤️

a reply to: oldcarpy
Links? There are times when you can't beat old-fashioned books. Let me tell you the story from Thomas Carlyle;
"Come, come! We have had enough of this- I will put an end to your prattling [stepping forth into the floor of the house and clamping on his hat and occasionally stamping on the floor with his feet]- It is not fit that you should sit here any longer. You have sat here too long for any good you have been doing lately [in fact this famous sentence is not in quotation marks and looks like Carlyle's own comment]. You shall now give place to better men!- Call them in" [This being addressed to the leader of twenty or thirty grim musketeers]...
"You call yourselves a Parliament? I say you are no Parliament! Some of you are drunkards...
How can you be a Parliament for God's people? Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
Then of course the business with the mace- "What shall we do with this bauble? Take it away!"

P.S. I've now listened to the Youtube link above. It's pure scriptwriter. I think "drunkards and whoremasters" is the only overlap with Carlyle. I told you books were better.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
Well "we" voted to leave but lets just ignore that, shall we?
Give me strength....

The part some of us are unwilling to ignore is the campaign of disinformation and lies, funded by a Tory billionaire and masterminded by Cummings (neither of whose interests are likely to coincide with yours or mine), aided by Cambridge Analytica, courtesy of Facebook, whose overspending breached electoral law - which fact alone nullifies the legitimacy of the referendum results.

originally posted by: EvilAxis

The part some of us are unwilling to ignore is the campaign of disinformation and lies, funded by a Tory billionaire and masterminded by Cummings (neither of whose interests are likely to coincide with yours or mine), aided by Cambridge Analytica, courtesy of Facebook, whose overspending breached electoral law - which fact alone nullifies the legitimacy of the referendum results.

There were lies told on both sides, politicians are notorious for spinning.

However do you honestly believe those who voted, voted on that alone?

without researching for themselves all aspects, there are many people too

who remember the UK before the UK joined *a common market*

and were then tied into a union that it seems one can join......but never

never leave


Those who wish to remain in the EU (remainers) think they are the only ones

who are educated, and actually patronisingly think they know better than

the 17.4 million who voted to leave and that those 17.4 million didn't know

what they were voting for.

Edit to add THEY DID!!