Brexit Delayed. Another defeat for Johnson

a reply to: SoEpic

With a workable plan, the public voted leave maybe.

But that remains to be seen from our own standpoint.

The UK has never been a true democracy, but a unitary state with devolution that is governed within the framework of a parliamentary democracy under a constitutional monarchy in which the monarch, currently Queen Elizabeth II, is the head of state.

Operative words being "under" and "head".

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

And do you think they have been working hard to get a good deal, or have they been trying to get a no deal and force another vote?

I think that the government want "no-deal" deep down and I think they want to do everything they can to stop a second referendum.

if we had a second referendum it should only be what type of no deal do you want.
Otherwise what happens? We have a third? Best of 5? A second referendum is the worst outcome. We need to move forwards not backwards.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SoEpic

With a workable plan, the public voted leave maybe.

But that remains to be seen from our own standpoint.

The UK has never been a true democracy, but a unitary state with devolution that is governed within the framework of a parliamentary democracy under a constitutional monarchy in which the monarch, currently Queen Elizabeth II, is the head of state.

Operative words being "under" and "head".

All parties promised to deliver the public vote, they have failed, hundreds of mps have voted against what their constituents wanted and against the public vote, democracy is therefore dead.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Something else mental out of BBC News, this is an unnamed source so a pinch of salt.

Apparently, Boris is going to tell the EU to ignore the letter sent by parliament and get Brexit done on the 31st.

Its a bit of a wired one because the law requires Boris to send the letter not parliament.

When it was read out there where quite a few confused looks on the faces of pundents.

Ha! Ha! Cummings is beginning to show his cunning plan. You don't think the Letwin amendment and its approval by parliament had not been already considered and a plan B drawn up in its eventuality looooong before this vote today?
It's only a "pinch of salt" because people do not want to believe that they have been outmanoeuvred. That's why these so-called "pundits" can't believe what the unnamed source said. Their minds are so one-dimensional. They think only one piece ahead in the chess game. They are dealing with a grandmaster.

a reply to: SoEpic

Not for Scotland nor Ireland it's not.

To be honest that's exactly what's required to determine the current will of the people.

Another referendum that is.

a reply to: andy06shake

Then you should not let people vote and tell them you will follow through with how they vote.

originally posted by: SoEpic

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

And do you think they have been working hard to get a good deal, or have they been trying to get a no deal and force another vote?

I think that the government want "no-deal" deep down and I think they want to do everything they can to stop a second referendum.

if we had a second referendum it should only be what type of no deal do you want.
Otherwise what happens? We have a third? Best of 5? A second referendum is the worst outcome.

Personally I think it should be a legally enforceable vote (not a advisory vote), I think it should be remain or no-deal and its implementation should be immediate.

If the Brexiteers are so sure it shouldn't be a problem.

Personally I think the problem was the wording and parameters of the initial vote, I think that the tories were very arrogant in thinking it would be a easy win so dropped the ball when it came to the question and the parameters for a win. It should have required 50% of all eligible voters to pass and not just 50% or those who did vote for one thing.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Scotland nor Ireland voted for Brexit, and our votes count for next to nothing.

People voted to remain where i hail from.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SoEpic

Not for Scotland nor Ireland it's not.

To be honest that's exactly what's required to determine the current will of the people.

Another referendum that is.

Great Britain had the vote, not England, not Ireland, not Scotland not Wales, we all voted as one and leave won. Why are the political parties going against what tgey promised to deliver? It's a disgrace!

why would a second referendum hold any more weight than the first?
the govt seems to be ignoring the first
they will just ignore the second

The people of Britain voted to leave the EU, several years ago. Why have the politicians delayed what was voted in by the people.

a reply to: SoEpic

But we are not united and thats plain as day!

How can political parties deliver a deal thats not there, or in any way a workable solution to the nation's dilemmas?

Nobody voted for a hard Brexit.

originally posted by: SoEpic

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SoEpic

Not for Scotland nor Ireland it's not.

To be honest that's exactly what's required to determine the current will of the people.

Another referendum that is.

Great Britain had the vote, not England, not Ireland, not Scotland not Wales, we all voted as one and leave won. Why are the political parties going against what tgey promised to deliver? It's a disgrace!

Scotland as a nation has a right to self determination, our people voted to remain within the EU and that was the expressed will of the people of this nation. That will is being usurped by rUK who are dragging the people of Scotland (and Ireland) out of the EU against their will.

Yes we voted as the UK however with the principle of a nation of equals this is the problem that you get, its one of many problems that come with Brexit.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Scotland nor Ireland voted for Brexit, and our votes count for next to nothing.

People voted to remain where i hail from.

Everyone gets to vote, that's how it works. Where you live doesn't get to decide for everyone else, nor should you.

a reply to: shooterbrody

why would a second referendum hold any more weight than the first?

You could make it a legally enforced vote rather than an advisory vote for one.

the govt seems to be ignoring the first

Actually the government are trying pretty darn hard to deliver on the first vote its parliament thats the sticking point.

they will just ignore the second

Not if its a legally enforced vote.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: SoEpic

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

And do you think they have been working hard to get a good deal, or have they been trying to get a no deal and force another vote?

I think that the government want "no-deal" deep down and I think they want to do everything they can to stop a second referendum.

if we had a second referendum it should only be what type of no deal do you want.
Otherwise what happens? We have a third? Best of 5? A second referendum is the worst outcome.

Personally I think it should be a legally enforceable vote (not a advisory vote), I think it should be remain or no-deal and its implementation should be immediate.

If the Brexiteers are so sure it shouldn't be a problem.

Personally I think the problem was the wording and parameters of the initial vote, I think that the tories were very arrogant in thinking it would be a easy win so dropped the ball when it came to the question and the parameters for a win. It should have required 50% of all eligible voters to pass and not just 50% or those who did vote for one thing.

Come on, leave has allready been chosen, we have wasted enough time on this. It should have been delivered a long time ago. If remain won it would make it 1-1 and then leavers would call for a third referendum wasting even more time. That makes no sense, let's just get brexit delivered.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Possibly because we now understand the ramifications?

No workable plan insight and that speaks volumes.

The plan is there is no viable plan, and that amounts to hard Brexit, which was not part of any agreement.

Boris kens the perfectly well.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: SoEpic

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SoEpic

Not for Scotland nor Ireland it's not.

To be honest that's exactly what's required to determine the current will of the people.

Another referendum that is.

Great Britain had the vote, not England, not Ireland, not Scotland not Wales, we all voted as one and leave won. Why are the political parties going against what tgey promised to deliver? It's a disgrace!

Scotland as a nation has a right to self determination, our people voted to remain within the EU and that was the expressed will of the people of this nation. That will is being usurped by rUK who are dragging the people of Scotland (and Ireland) out of the EU against their will.

Yes we voted as the UK however with the principle of a nation of equals this is the problem that you get, its one of many problems that come with Brexit.

we joined as the UK and voted to leave as the UK. Imagine if Scotland had another referendum on leaving the UK and won but it wouldn't be honoured - what would you say? I am very interested to hear your answer

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Why not, i live in Scotland, and i am a EU citizen thus far.

I don't give a rats arse what Westminster decides, not many Scots do to be honest, hence the predicament and ambulance to accept Boris's nonsensical bullcrap.

a reply to: andy06shake

Why not? So you decide for everyone else? Nothing more needs to be said if that is what you think.