Mattis Completely Roasts Trump

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

But aren't you just making the, "They were just following orders," defense? You could argue that the soldiers at Auschwitz or My Lai we also willing puppets. Does that absolve them of their responsibility?

a reply to: underwerks

Shifting goal posts?

You asked if he's responsible for other peoples behavior (i.e., the current climate). Not his own behavior.

here, let me quote myself so you can have your concerns put to rest:

He's a simple kind of guy that will respond to any kind of attack. Easily baited.

Because Trump is a jerk. And for some reason otherwise dignified people tend to enjoy a roll in the mud with him.

For whatever its worth, you don't speak for anyone other than yourself, so saying "no one" seems to imply hyperbole. and I don't care if anyone takes me seriously. I don't get paid for this stuff....im just sharing opinions. Its not a winnable sport.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

ETA: Take the headline on this thread as an example. Its "newsworthy" nowadays to report on the most base aspects of public figures. I enjoy reading Ben Shapiro for a perspective....but have grown completely tired with his headlines that say someone "flattened" someone else. I respect Crenshaw, but wouuld prefer to see his comments couched in a less confrontational manner. Its like media wants to see us at each others throat rather than finding solutions.

Or maybe it's just the media reporting on someone who's called them all traitors and an enemy of the people..

You seem like you don't want to put any of the blame on Donald Trump.

Oh please. He called out media for reporting on the Dossier and its obvious lies. Media attacked him first. A media that used to love him.

He's a simple kind of guy that will respond to any kind of attack. Easily baited. And successfully baiting the president makes good headlines.

Prior to DJT, we all pretty much agreed that media was full of crap. Now, all of a sudden, we want to pretend they aren't and its all DJT's fault? No. I won't buy into this.

I was just wondering if you were arguing in good faith or not. Obviously not. Thanks for making that known. No one is going to take anything you say seriously until you can hold Donald Trump the least bit accountable for his own behavior. Which you obviously can't. And that says it all.

Concern troll all you want.

I take him seriously because he is very balanced and not prone to hyperbole.
You on the other hand .. I could never take you seriously. You're just another 'Trump Bad' poster - and not a very good one at that.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Shifting goal posts?

You asked if he's responsible for other peoples behavior (i.e., the current climate). Not his own behavior.

Accusing me of shifting goal posts while you shift goal posts... classic.

I didn't ask if he's responsible for other peoples behavior, as you try to paint it. Here, let me quote myself again, so maybe it'll be a little easier for you to understand:

So is he responsible for the conversation devolving or not?

Simple yes or no question.

Simple question. With a yes or no answer. Which you refuse to answer. Your rambling around the question doesn't mean anything.

So would you like to answer that simple question or continue to drag the goal posts all over the gym floor? It's just really curious that someone that claims to not like Donald Trump refuses to call him out for the painfully obvious role he's played in devolving the national conversation. Just calling him a "jerk" and then arguing in his favor doesn't cut it.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

ETA: Take the headline on this thread as an example. Its "newsworthy" nowadays to report on the most base aspects of public figures. I enjoy reading Ben Shapiro for a perspective....but have grown completely tired with his headlines that say someone "flattened" someone else. I respect Crenshaw, but wouuld prefer to see his comments couched in a less confrontational manner. Its like media wants to see us at each others throat rather than finding solutions.

Or maybe it's just the media reporting on someone who's called them all traitors and an enemy of the people..

You seem like you don't want to put any of the blame on Donald Trump.

Oh please. He called out media for reporting on the Dossier and its obvious lies. Media attacked him first. A media that used to love him.

He's a simple kind of guy that will respond to any kind of attack. Easily baited. And successfully baiting the president makes good headlines.

Prior to DJT, we all pretty much agreed that media was full of crap. Now, all of a sudden, we want to pretend they aren't and its all DJT's fault? No. I won't buy into this.

I was just wondering if you were arguing in good faith or not. Obviously not. Thanks for making that known. No one is going to take anything you say seriously until you can hold Donald Trump the least bit accountable for his own behavior. Which you obviously can't. And that says it all.

Concern troll all you want.

I take him seriously because he is very balanced and not prone to hyperbole.
You on the other hand .. I could never take you seriously. You're just another 'Trump Bad' poster - and not a very good one at that.

You blindly following Donald Trump pretty much negates any opinion you have on anything. Thank you for lacking the self awareness to see that.

a reply to: RazorV66

It’s time to let these countries solve their own problems without the cost of American lives and money.
Trump recognizes that and took action on it.

And to prove it he sent 3,000 US soldiers to SA to guard the oil.

Oh... That doesn't make sense, does it?

a reply to: underwerks

Trump is not responsible for the behavior of everyone else. Trump is a participant in a game being played by whoever controls media.

Im not going to answer "yes/no" questions when such simplicity fails to address anything.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

This comes shortly after Trump referred to Mattis as "the world's most overrated general."

Trump is such a childish idiot , glad the Mad Dog still knows how to bark.

And you do have to admit that between me and Meryl, at least we've had some victories.

Priceless , wining not whining.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

But aren't you just making the, "They were just following orders," defense? You could argue that the soldiers at Auschwitz or My Lai we also willing puppets. Does that absolve them of their responsibility?

No i am not. I am saying that Trump cannot control himself because he's simple. He isn't following orders, he's taking bait.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: underwerks

Trump is not responsible for the behavior of everyone else. Trump is a participant in a game being played by whoever controls media.

Im not going to answer "yes/no" questions when such simplicity fails to address anything.

Again, I'm not asking if Trump is responsible for everyone else, I'm asking if he's responsible for his own behavior .

His crass behavior that has unquestionably divided the country. Why can't you call that out?

a reply to: underwerks

Are you saying the country was united before Trump?

a reply to: underwerks

at this point i've answered the question you have asked to my satisfaction, and you can expect me to not allow you to bully me into a different response.

a reply to: DBCowboy

At the very least I don't recall people claiming that everyone from the other side should be rounded up and hanged for treason. So I would say that it was definitely more united.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: underwerks

at this point i've answered the question you have asked to my satisfaction, and you can expect me to not allow you to bully me into a different response.

Thank you. Your refusal to hold Trump accountable for his own behavior tells me all I need to know.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Are you saying the country was united before Trump?

It definitely wasn't as bad as it is now. Are you saying it isn't worse at the moment?

ETA: I don't remember right wingers threatening to kill me when I was speaking out about Mitt Romney.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
It definitely seems like Trump's move in Syria has started costing him support within the military. Mattis was willing to play the Good Soldier up until now and say nothing bad about his CO.

In the end, troops stand with troops. Troops stand with other people who have gone through the same difficulties, similar deployments, rough times and so on. Not politicians with their flowery promises.

And Trump, as a man who turned his back on deployment due to being too rich, has never had the full respect of the troops. Some of us, yes, but overwhelmingly no. How do you respect someone who avoided being deployed, but chooses to single out and call American heroes names?

Consider this, every time Trump walks into a situation room or a TOC, he is the person in the room with the least amount of knowledge and experience on the matter. And then he chooses not to listen to anyone because he knows best.

It is hard for a sane person to respect that.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The “y’all” was a general comment, not directed solely at you. I do apologize for the responding to you directly in an effort to highlight the lack of humor.

I would disagree that we don’t hear much of what Mattis has said over the years. Many of his quotes were liberally bandied about both in the media and here on ATS when he was appointed. If people were unclear on who and what exactly he was, they had blinders on and anything else is, in my opinion, revisionist nonsense.

What we’re left with is two sides who are happy to ignore or support whatever their “side” does while decrying the very same behavior from the other “side.” Those of us occupying the third “side” can stay angry about it while nothing changes or we can see the humor in the ridiculousness that is our present political landscape.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Are you saying the country was united before Trump?

It definitely wasn't as bad as it is now. Are you saying it isn't worse at the moment?

ETA: I don't remember right wingers threatening to kill me when I was speaking out about Mitt Romney.

I still got death threats when Obama was in office because I disagreed with policy.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: underwerks

at this point i've answered the question you have asked to my satisfaction, and you can expect me to not allow you to bully me into a different response.

Thank you. Your refusal to hold Trump accountable for his own behavior tells me all I need to know.

To be fair, I would consider saying Trump lacks the ability to control himself because he’s “simple” is holding him accountable.

Doesn’t strike me as an excuse for him so much as it seems to be a “what do you really expect from this guy?” answer.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

ETA: Take the headline on this thread as an example. Its "newsworthy" nowadays to report on the most base aspects of public figures. I enjoy reading Ben Shapiro for a perspective....but have grown completely tired with his headlines that say someone "flattened" someone else. I respect Crenshaw, but wouuld prefer to see his comments couched in a less confrontational manner. Its like media wants to see us at each others throat rather than finding solutions.

Or maybe it's just the media reporting on someone who's called them all traitors and an enemy of the people..

You seem like you don't want to put any of the blame on Donald Trump.

Oh please. He called out media for reporting on the Dossier and its obvious lies. Media attacked him first. A media that used to love him.

He's a simple kind of guy that will respond to any kind of attack. Easily baited. And successfully baiting the president makes good headlines.

Prior to DJT, we all pretty much agreed that media was full of crap. Now, all of a sudden, we want to pretend they aren't and its all DJT's fault? No. I won't buy into this.

I was just wondering if you were arguing in good faith or not. Obviously not. Thanks for making that known. No one is going to take anything you say seriously until you can hold Donald Trump the least bit accountable for his own behavior. Which you obviously can't. And that says it all.

Concern troll all you want.

I take him seriously because he is very balanced and not prone to hyperbole.
You on the other hand .. I could never take you seriously. You're just another 'Trump Bad' poster - and not a very good one at that.

You blindly following Donald Trump pretty much negates any opinion you have on anything. Thank you for lacking the self awareness to see that.

I am quite happy to debate substantive issues wrt to Trump and I disagree with quite a few of his policies and quite a lot of his approach.
I am not, however, going to play along with ridiculous, unsubstantive, anti-Trump rhetoric and name calling. It's childish and only serves to divide. Unfortunately, that is all you have to offer.