He Has the Whole World In His Hand

a reply to: TzarChasm

Would there be any point

originally posted by: chr0naut

At the time of this alleged great apostasy (do you have any actual historical or evidential support for that?) ...

The Church Fathers—Advocates of Bible Truth?
The Apologists—Christian Defenders or Would-Be Philosophers
The Paradox of Tertullian
The Baptism of Clovis—1,500 Years of Catholicism in France
One Myth Leads to Another
Did the Early Church Teach That God Is a Trinity? (Part 1​—Did Jesus and His Disciples Teach the Trinity Doctrine?)
Did the Early Church Teach That God Is a Trinity? (Part 2​—Did the Apostolic Fathers Teach the Trinity Doctrine?)
Part 3​—Did the Apologists Teach the Trinity Doctrine?
Part 4​—When and How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?
Should You Believe in the Trinity?
How Christendom Came to Worship an Unknown God
Chapter 4: The Great Apostasy Develops
Greek Philosophy​—Did It Enrich Christianity?
The Idea Enters Judaism, Christendom, and Islam

IN MAKING a promise of an afterlife, virtually every religion depends on the belief that a human has a soul that is immortal and that upon death journeys to another realm or transmigrates to another creature. As noted in the preceding section, the belief in human immortality has been an integral part of Eastern religions from their inception. But what about Judaism, Christendom, and Islam? How did the teaching become central to these faiths?

Judaism Absorbs Greek Concepts
...

Some of the historical evidence in videoformat (playlist):

Isaac Newton's science/scientia/knowledge about reality
He is a liar! (part 1 of 2)

Obviously, the possible research into the (historical and biblical) evidence that is available can be done as extensively as one desires. But it is also clear that, given your question about it, that your desire to look into it yourself is rather minimal. Whereas the desire to argue against any comments made about it, or direct examples given, is rather strong in comparison. No need to complain about my use of many links, that it's too much, or that I should use my own words, or whatever else you'd like to use as an excuse for yourself not to look at even one link or video in that rather extensive list. Simply because you don't wanna know, and you're more interested in ways to dismiss any of it as evidence for the apostasy prophecied in the Bible.

Nevertheless the main proponents of the doctrine of the Trinity for example, admit themselves in their own encyclopedia: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

And concerning the historical philosophical development of how the word "soul" is used and understood by people compared to how it is used in the Bible, the following sources admit:

“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [neʹphesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy·kheʹ] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.

“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.

“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought.

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.

“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.

“The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556.

Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide:

“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.

originally posted by: Finspiracy
a reply to: EdgeofParadise

... If i had one violent cell in me, their gathering places would have burnt down and their foreheads would have met the back of their skulls. But i have no violent cells, as you seem to have, plenty.

Proverbs 26:20-25

20 Where there is no wood, the fire goes out,

And where there is no slanderer, quarreling ceases.

21 As charcoal for the embers and wood for the fire,

So a contentious man kindles a quarrel.

22 The words of a slanderer are like tasty morsels;* [Or “like things to be swallowed greedily.”]

They are gulped right down into the stomach.

23 Like a silver glazing over a piece of earthenware

Are affectionate words from* an evil heart. [Lit., “fervent lips with.”]

24 The one who hates others disguises it with his lips,

But inside he harbors deceit.

25 Although he speaks graciously, do not trust him,

For there are seven detestable things in his heart.* [Or “For his heart is completely detestable.”]

Verse 11:

Like a dog that returns to its vomit,

The stupid one repeats his foolishness.

See Raggedyman's commentary for the best example in this thread of why one can trust what the Bible says about these behavioural patterns and inner motive of the heart. “For from inside, out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings”. (Mark 7:21) “Offspring of vipers, how can you speak good things when you are wicked? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man out of his good treasure sends out good things, whereas the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked things. I tell you that men will render an account on Judgment Day for every unprofitable* [Or “worthless.”] saying that they speak; for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matthew 12:34-37)

TheConstruKctionofLight is chipping in as well in providing further evidence for the reliability of the Bible and its Author: Jehovah God. So...thanks? (for the contribution)

The Bible: A Book You Can Trust—Part 1 (Awake!—2010)

originally posted by: chr0naut

At the time of this alleged great apostasy (do you have any actual historical or evidential support for that?) ...

Oh btw, the attitude that is preventing you from looker deeper into it and considering the evidence more seriously rather than looking for a reason (or excuse) to dismiss it as not being good evidence, or ignore it altogether (as in for example not even clicking and reading through a single link that I provided in my previous response to you), is described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4:

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

More evidence for the Bible's reliability.

I for one, find the evidence so abundant and compelling, that there is no doubt in my mind that I'm on the right track. As figuratively described by Jesus at Matthew 7:13,14:

13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

Just for comparison... (the detailed evidence regarding which teachings are right and biblical and which are wrong already discussed in the links)

Chistendom's membercount: over 2 billion
Jehovah's Witnesses: about 8.5 million

a reply to: whereislogic

Yeah thank you for your response.

I just wish that everyone would lay their swords down. Someone is a christian, someone is an atheist, someone doesn't give a damn (sorry mods if "damn " is not allowed but i will leave it there because that is what i meant)

This world needs more understanding. This applies to me too. I need more understanding. I am a faulty man who has done bad deeds. Therefore, i can't really judge and i don't wish any judgments upon me, unless they come from God.

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: chr0naut

At the time of this alleged great apostasy (do you have any actual historical or evidential support for that?) ...

... snip ...

I for one, find the evidence so abundant and compelling, that there is no doubt in my mind that I'm on the right track. As figuratively described by Jesus at Matthew 7:13,14:

13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

Just for comparison... (the detailed evidence regarding which teachings are right and biblical and which are wrong already discussed in the links)

Chistendom's membercount: over 2 billion
Jehovah's Witnesses: about 8.5 million

Rastafarians only number about 1 million (or less). So they must be the true religion by your logic?

a reply to: EdgeofParadise

A key scripture that God is not behind badness is in James 1:13 there we are told: "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

You kind of glossed over that one key scripture of yours. Let's read the entire thought.

James 1:12-16
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Every person in this world is tempted by some temptation but every person is tempted through the evil Yetzer Hara of his/her own inclination. So yes, everyone is tried through their own strength of their mind. That is called free will. Everyone is responsible and tried for their own actions from their own mind.

You also wrote that "Satan the Devil is the ruler of the world." - Very misleading and taught falsely to almost all biblical readers. The Satan of Satan's is the ruler of the people that are not sanctified or that are not in the covenant of the Christ but he certainly is not the ruler of those who are sanctified or those who are in the covenant of the Christ. Satan also is not the ruler of the physicality of this world. That deed was given to Adam.

a reply to: EdgeofParadise

So God created us and now we are Satans play thing in this verse?

Swings and roundabouts buddy, but the thing is none of the two alleged entities seem to be looking for an equal.

The wars we fight are with ourselves, and the only thing coming to save us, is us.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: chr0naut

At the time of this alleged great apostasy (do you have any actual historical or evidential support for that?) ...

... snip ...

I for one, find the evidence so abundant and compelling, that there is no doubt in my mind that I'm on the right track. As figuratively described by Jesus at Matthew 7:13,14:

13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

Just for comparison... (the detailed evidence regarding which teachings are right and biblical and which are wrong already discussed in the links)

Chistendom's membercount: over 2 billion
Jehovah's Witnesses: about 8.5 million

Rastafarians only number about 1 million (or less). So they must be the true religion by your logic?

And that's why I said:

Just for comparison... (the detailed evidence regarding which teachings are right and biblical and which are wrong already discussed in the links)

So you wouldn't go there and twist my point and read something else into what I was actually saying because that's what you want to hear as per 2 Timothy 4:3,4. Even if I'm specifying that that is not my argument, you still twist it into it anyway and pretend that that's what I was arguing so you can ridicule it. You're being just way too predictable in your behavioural pattern. I already know what you're going to do with my words before having finished typing them.

From my perspective, it gets boring though. You hear only what you wanna hear. And respond only to that which is easier to twist and in this case, ridicule. You are neither honest with yourself or me or anyone else who reads your commentary. But you're quite subtle about it most of the times.

This one, I can't say you're winning any subtlety or cunning awards with.

"So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes." (Ephesians 4:14)

originally posted by: EdgeofParadise
As we see God is not behind mankind's suffering.

Breaking the Strong Delusion: Our Morality vs. God's Morality (ATS)
Posted this in your other thread, I know. That's my take on God's morality, with verses to back it up. Some things I look at; Rape, slavery, murder/capital punishment, human sacrifice, and God's abuse of "free will". You may find God is a petty and despicable character. Just my two cents, if you're interested.

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: chr0naut

At the time of this alleged great apostasy (do you have any actual historical or evidential support for that?) ...

... snip ...

I for one, find the evidence so abundant and compelling, that there is no doubt in my mind that I'm on the right track. As figuratively described by Jesus at Matthew 7:13,14:

13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

Just for comparison... (the detailed evidence regarding which teachings are right and biblical and which are wrong already discussed in the links)

Chistendom's membercount: over 2 billion
Jehovah's Witnesses: about 8.5 million

Rastafarians only number about 1 million (or less). So they must be the true religion by your logic?

And that's why I said:

Just for comparison... (the detailed evidence regarding which teachings are right and biblical and which are wrong already discussed in the links)

So you wouldn't go there and twist my point and read something else into what I was actually saying because that's what you want to hear as per 2 Timothy 4:3,4. Even if I'm specifying that that is not my argument, you still twist it into it anyway and pretend that that's what I was arguing so you can ridicule it. You're being just way too predictable in your behavioural pattern. I already know what you're going to do with my words before having finished typing them.

From my perspective, it gets boring though. You hear only what you wanna hear. And respond only to that which is easier to twist and in this case, ridicule. You are neither honest with yourself or me or anyone else who reads your commentary. But you're quite subtle about it most of the times.

This one, I can't say you're winning any subtlety or cunning awards with.

"So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes." (Ephesians 4:14)

Was St Thomas blaspheming when he said "My Lord (Strongs G2962 "kurios") and my God (Strongs G2316 "theos")" to Jesus?

What was Jesus' response?

originally posted by: chr0naut

Was St Thomas blaspheming when he said "My Lord (Strongs G2962 "kurios") and my God (Strongs G2316 "theos")" to Jesus?

No.

What was Jesus' response?

I think you already know. Just like you know this text does not prove that God is a Trinity or that Jesus is the Almighty God Jehovah, the One Jesus referred to as “you” and “the only true God” (John 17:3). If he was, why would he address this God as “you” there? Or refer to this God as “my God” (John 20:17)? Because he can do that while in his human nature while still being his own God, “the only true God”? That would be a lame cop-out, which sounds suspiciously like modalism (God in different modes; although technically modalism encompasses more twisted teachings); and still doesn't make any sense in light of these statements that Jesus made himself about the One who is clearly his God (and Father).

1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!” (Repeatedly, even following Jesus’ ascension to heaven therefore not being in or having a human nature, the Scriptures refer to the Father as “the God” of Jesus Christ. As already mentioned, at John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. But never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the Son as “my God,” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.”)

Do any of the scriptures that are used by Trinitarians to support their belief provide a solid basis for that dogma?

A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.

Source: Trinity (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Does Thomas’ exclamation at John 20:28 prove that Jesus is truly God?

John 20:28 (RS) reads: “Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’”

There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind. Such would be in harmony with Jesus’ own quotation from the Psalms in which powerful men, judges, were addressed as “gods.” (John 10:34, 35, RS; Ps. 82:1-6) Of course, Christ occupies a position far higher than such men. Because of the uniqueness of his position in relation to Jehovah, at John 1:18 (NW) Jesus is referred to as “the only-begotten god.” (See also Ro, By.) Isaiah 9:6 (RS) also prophetically describes Jesus as “Mighty God,” but not as the Almighty God. All of this is in harmony with Jesus’ being described as “a god,” or “divine,” at John 1:1 (NW, AT).

The context helps us to draw the right conclusion from this. Shortly before Jesus’ death, Thomas had heard Jesus’ prayer in which he addressed his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3, RS) After Jesus’ resurrection Jesus had sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he had said: “I am ascending . . . to my God and your God.” (John 20:17, RS) After recording what Thomas said when he actually saw and touched the resurrected Christ, the apostle John stated: “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31, RS) So, if anyone has concluded from Thomas’ exclamation that Jesus is himself “the only true God” or that Jesus is a Trinitarian “God the Son,” he needs to look again at what Jesus himself said (vs. 17) and at the conclusion that is clearly stated by the apostle John (vs. 31).

Source: Jesus Christ (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Trinitarians need some new material. Usually just ignoring the response and then bringing up the same scripture again later, or switching to the next scripture that is used by Trinitarians to support their belief, won't cut it. It shouldn't be like a cardgame where you play one bad card after another (with a joker painted with a pen on every card played, as if the other person is supposed to acknowledge it as a joker card just because it's drawn on there while it's in their hand? Or is that too complicated as an illustration what's going on here concerning the subject of eisegesis?).

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: chr0naut

Was St Thomas blaspheming when he said "My Lord (Strongs G2962 "kurios") and my God (Strongs G2316 "theos")" to Jesus?

No.

What was Jesus' response?

I think you already know. Just like you know this text does not prove that God is a Trinity or that Jesus is the Almighty God Jehovah, the One Jesus referred to as “you” and “the only true God” (John 17:3). If he was, why would he address this God as “you” there? Or refer to this God as “my God” (John 20:17)? Because he can do that while in his human nature while still being his own God, “the only true God”? That would be a lame cop-out, which sounds suspiciously like modalism (God in different modes; although technically modalism encompasses more twisted teachings); and still doesn't make any sense in light of these statements that Jesus made himself about the One who is clearly his God (and Father).

1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!” (Repeatedly, even following Jesus’ ascension to heaven therefore not being in or having a human nature, the Scriptures refer to the Father as “the God” of Jesus Christ. As already mentioned, at John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. But never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the Son as “my God,” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.”)

Do any of the scriptures that are used by Trinitarians to support their belief provide a solid basis for that dogma?

A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.

Source: Trinity (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Does Thomas’ exclamation at John 20:28 prove that Jesus is truly God?

John 20:28 (RS) reads: “Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’”

There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind. Such would be in harmony with Jesus’ own quotation from the Psalms in which powerful men, judges, were addressed as “gods.” (John 10:34, 35, RS; Ps. 82:1-6) Of course, Christ occupies a position far higher than such men. Because of the uniqueness of his position in relation to Jehovah, at John 1:18 (NW) Jesus is referred to as “the only-begotten god.” (See also Ro, By.) Isaiah 9:6 (RS) also prophetically describes Jesus as “Mighty God,” but not as the Almighty God. All of this is in harmony with Jesus’ being described as “a god,” or “divine,” at John 1:1 (NW, AT).

The context helps us to draw the right conclusion from this. Shortly before Jesus’ death, Thomas had heard Jesus’ prayer in which he addressed his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3, RS) After Jesus’ resurrection Jesus had sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he had said: “I am ascending . . . to my God and your God.” (John 20:17, RS) After recording what Thomas said when he actually saw and touched the resurrected Christ, the apostle John stated: “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31, RS) So, if anyone has concluded from Thomas’ exclamation that Jesus is himself “the only true God” or that Jesus is a Trinitarian “God the Son,” he needs to look again at what Jesus himself said (vs. 17) and at the conclusion that is clearly stated by the apostle John (vs. 31).

Source: Jesus Christ (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Trinitarians need some new material. Usually just ignoring the response and then bringing up the same scripture again later, or switching to the next scripture that is used by Trinitarians to support their belief, won't cut it. It shouldn't be like a cardgame where you play one bad card after another (with a joker painted with a pen on every card played, as if the other person is supposed to acknowledge it as a joker card just because it's drawn on there while it's in their hand? Or is that too complicated as an illustration what's going on here concerning the subject of eisegesis?).

You still haven't addressed this particular event, recorded in this particular scripture.

You deflected away from it, to elsewhere.

Was Thomas blaspheming, and what was Jesus response, right here?

a reply to: chr0naut

I already answered with "no". And elaborated on why not. Verse 29 reads:

Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Happy are those who have not seen and yet believe.”

Which was referring to Thomas not believing the other disciples who told him: “We have seen the Lord!”, as described in verse 25:

So the other disciples were telling him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print* [Or “mark.”] of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.”

Nothing about Jesus being Jehovah God, or God being a Trinity.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: chr0naut

I already answered with "no". And elaborated on why not. Verse 29 reads:

Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Happy are those who have not seen and yet believe.”

Which was referring to Thomas not believing the other disciples who told him: “We have seen the Lord!”, as described in verse 25:

So the other disciples were telling him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print* [Or “mark.”] of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.”

Nothing about Jesus being Jehovah God, or God being a Trinity.

So, did Thomas blaspheme?

Jesus' response was straight after it.

originally posted by: chr0naut

So, did Thomas blaspheme?

No. Why do you keep answering the same question that I already answered the first time? That's 3 times I answered now.

Jesus' response was straight after it.

As I just quoted it from verse 29, the verse right after John 20:28.

a reply to: EdgeofParadise

We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
1 John 5:19

If one changes your perspective, one can see that almost all music is written for and about Satan, for that is whom the rich and powerful worship. They have been very successful at proselytizing their religion to the unwitting masses. Now the uninformed will vigorously defend 'their culture' and their idols without knowing they have fallen into a well-laid trap.

"It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled."
-Mark Twain

originally posted by: TruthSeekerIXXI
a reply to: EdgeofParadise

We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
1 John 5:19

If one changes your perspective, one can see that almost all music is written for and about Satan, for that is whom the rich and powerful worship. They have been very successful at proselytizing their religion to the unwitting masses. Now the uninformed will vigorously defend 'their culture' and their idols without knowing they have fallen into a well-laid trap.

"It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled."
-Mark Twain

You have understood the word of 1 John 5:19 correctly. The whole world indeed lies in the power of the evil one, and he is Satan the Devil.

And as you can see scripture says that he has both blinded the minds of unbeleivers (many of whom think they are believers but do not worship with accurate knowledge) and is misleading the entire inhabited earth):

"Among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."-2 Corinthians 4:4.

"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."-Revelation 12:9.

a reply to: EdgeofParadise

So tired of Christians claiming they have the exclusive truth.. and others are blind. I try not to judge JW’s, Edge, and I have defended your right to your faith when you have been repeatedly bashed.

Now you are stepping on other’s Christian faith. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

*sighs*.. I guess we all have our interpretation of the bible and hold steadfast to that.. so I am guilty of admonishing how some see the New Testament as well.

It’s time to not speak out and just pray I think. It’s all becoming too divisive and that is sad.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: EdgeofParadise

So tired of Christians claiming they have the exclusive truth.. and others are blind. I try not to judge JW’s, Edge, and I have defended your right to your faith when you have been repeatedly bashed.

Now you are stepping on other’s Christian faith. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

*sighs*.. I guess we all have our interpretation of the bible and hold steadfast to that.. so I am guilty of admonishing how some see the New Testament as well.

It’s time to not speak out and just pray I think. It’s all becoming too divisive and that is sad.

I appreciate your sincerity. And surely sharing a few scriptures is not a bad thing. It is the pattern Jesus set. He would not speak if he did not quote scripture, even when refuting the Devil.

And we are told to always make a defense of our faith to anyone asking it of us, together with deep respect. I see you try to do that. And when you are bullied online it can be a challenge just as it is in real life, to maintain that calm spirit with deep respect.

And don't get me wrong. I respect everyone's views. And do not try to argue with them when they disagree with mine. In fact we all are wrong about almost everything all the time. The only real guide for life is God's word. If I make a personal opinion or statement that is all it is. If I am teaching truth I will use God's word, so it is not I but God who is speaking. And each person in turn responds to it according to their own heart.

I will share something with you. The apostle Paul used to be called Saul, and he was of Tarsus and studied at the feet of Gamaliel, one of the fathers of modern-day Judaism. He was zealous in his worship of God in the tradition of the Pharisees.

When the Christian congregation was formed, from the outset it was the Jews that persecuted it most fiercely. The Jewish religious leaders, for the most part, rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and helped put him to death. They considered Christianity as an apostasy of Judaism and viciously tried to stomp it out, murdering Christians everywhere they went.

Paul was among those zealous persecutors of Jesus' followers. He stood and watched with approval as the Sanhedrin, the Jewish high court, stoned the disciple*, and holy one, Stephen to death. And he was breathing hatred and murder against any an all Christians, personally going from city to city to seek them out to put them in prison and put them to death.

This is what Paul said about his former conduct, which he thought had God's approval:

"Formerly I was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insolent man. Nevertheless, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and with a lack of faith."-1 Timothy 1:13.

Do you get the sense of the message? One can be fully convinced of being right, and even think they are right in persecuting true disciples of Christ, and it can because they are acting in ignorance. We don't know. But God can read the hearts. He obviously saw a form of zeal in Paul's heart for what he thought was right, only that it was out of ignorance he was acting. Jesus revealed himself to Saul while was he was on his way to Damascus to continue his persecution of Christ's followers and asked Saul why he was doing what he was doing.

True, Jesus will not appear to us today as he did to Paul. But he can open the heart of a sincere person who may be worshiping, but not according to accurate knowledge of truth. Just as Paul later said to the Romans:

"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge."-Romans 10:2.

It is not enough to just worship God the way we chose to. It must be with ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE. And that is found in the Bible.

You did well to pray about matters, I commend you for that. Continue to do so in sincerity, and have no doubt you will be answered.

Things are divisive. But that is not God's doing. Where God's spirit is there is unity and peace and harmony and love. Divisions come from the fleshly desires of sin, and from an animalistic, and demonic spirit.