The president has a complete 'meltdown' today following a Congressional vote

a reply to: shooterbrody

Europe is not the whole globe.

Can you cite an authority besides yourself that states that if the US suddenly withdrew from every international theatre that would have no effect on global stability?

You can speak for yourself. I think that young Americans who volunteered to protect American interests as their duty would be hired out to an oppressive autocratic regime from an enemy nation is appalling.

Your mileage may vary.

IIRC, Obama did virtually nothing about ISIS, which proceeded to establish a “caliphate” in Syria and commit unspeakable atrocities. And perhaps I’m just imagining things, but wasn’t it Trump who proceeded to wipe out ISIS with the highly effective use of minimal U.S. forces? And now that he’s withdrawing something like 1,000 personnel he’s the worst person in the world? Democrats are unbelievable hypocrites! And any Republican who supports them needs to be replaced. Thank God we have a president who knows the real existential threat is China. We can never, ever win in the Middle East. I want nothing to do with that region of crazy people.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: shooterbrody

Bringing our troops home is a great idea.

Abandoning our hard-won position in Syria to the Russians is not.

Neither is sending our boys and girls to lick the feet of the House of Saud.

What position in Syria? Syria is a free nation, what position do we have there? Are we at war with them?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: proximo

Do you know what it was that we promised the kurds?

If you say you do can you prove it.

Because I think and this is just my opinion, that we promised them more than that.

The US/UK promised them their own country Kurdistan after their help in WW1 in defeating the Ottoman Empire (and again after their help in WW11) declaring a Kurdish state in the 1920 Treaty of Sevres.

Every move to follow through with the treaty has been brutally quashed, millions killed in an ongoing holocaust with all the Western Allies subsequent politicians/presidents leaders continually breaking promise after promise for the last decade.

originally posted by: wheresthebody

It doesn’t matter anymore if someone does the right thing, no one notices.

a reply to: GreenGunther

It's sad that this is probably the most accurate statement on this site in the better part of a year.

Thanks for noticing 😊

originally posted by: xuenchen
Trump's got the hairpin triggers on the move !! 😎

Now nobody knows what the Hell is happening !! 😎

Can't trust the MSM either for the real "facts" can we 😎

Well I know one thing ... at the Dallas rally, he stated that he/they had arranged a nice little cease fire between the Kurds and Erdogan. The msm and just about everybody else will not tell the truth so he has to go to the people. And further...when did the Democrats ever want to go to war... only when the GOP doesn’t want it. They change their position based on a political move and not on what’s right, even though they virtue signal on their self righteousness.. like Clinton’s “Good War” in Bosnia/Kosovo.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: shooterbrody

Europe is not the whole globe.

Can you cite an authority besides yourself that states that if the US suddenly withdrew from every international theatre that would have no effect on global stability?

You can speak for yourself. I think that young Americans who volunteered to protect American interests as their duty would be hired out to an oppressive autocratic regime from an enemy nation is appalling.

Your mileage may vary.

It’s really interesting watching the positions on war change based on political positions of a particular political party. When Bush was in charge, the mantra was always no war no war no war and oh well take him to the Hague(which never happened of course), to obama oh we have to
Give air support to Syria and Libya straight out kill the leader of the country ... to regime change in Egypt and Tunisia and now they have decided that because Trump wants to get our troops out of places all of a sudden he’s a bad guy for wanting to end conflict in Syria. It’s all a big show and it always has been. If it were not so we would have won the Viet Nam war and beat the Viet Kong. Now we know the Democrat Party has been run by the Communist Party to further the Communist doctrine. It’s never been more obvious than now.

a reply to: [post=24701535]andy06shake[/post
Nonsense huh. You know damn good and well what you are seeing is a Communist coup. This will not end well. See you on the battlefield.

The House voted today, 354-60, to condemn Trump's actions in Syria and to oppose the now nearly full retreat of US forces from Syria.

The same God damn congress that cut and ran from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Let THAT sink in.

They were for retreat until Trump got elected.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Can you cite an authority besides yourself that states that if the US suddenly withdrew from every international theatre that would have no effect on global stability?

we are not the worlds police
funny you are advocating that just now

You can speak for yourself.

yep
did you serve?

I think that young Americans who volunteered to protect American interests as their duty would be hired out to an oppressive autocratic regime from an enemy nation is appalling.

korea
vietnam
iraq
ect.....
it was wrong then it is wrong now

The vote was 296-133 to go to war in Iraq.
Looking back many would say it was a bad idea.
The lop-sided vote with regards to pulling soldiers out of Syria symbolizes nothing to me.
You Democrats are absolutely incredible.
Just a few months after the iraq war began how you all came down on George W. Bush for going into a war in the middle east. All your smartest media figures and intellectual elites opined with utter disdain and disbelief that Bush would go to war in the middle east for ANY reason while pretending their side didn't also claim to believe Sadaam Hussein had WMD's.
Now you can't seem to find a reason to NOT keep soldiers over there.
It isn't just Syria.
ANYHING bad orange man does with regards to pulling out troops you disagree with.
You all have no actual moral compass in all of this. You should stay out of it.
Your only concern is making bad orange man look worse.
It is pathetic and it is conniving.

"President Trump defended himself Wednesday during a joint press conference with the prime minister of Italy, and explained that he had made a decision that was aligned with his long-stated policy position and which he believed would save American lives:

“When I ran, I ran on a basis we’re going to bring our great soldiers back home where they belong. We don’t have to fight these endless wars. … I want to bring our soldiers back home. We’re not a police force. We’re a fighting force. We’re the greatest fighting force ever. We have a great modern military, but that doesn’t mean we’re going to waste it. It doesn’t mean we’re going to deplete it like we did before with these crazy endless wars. … We’re 7,000 miles away. I campaigned on bringing our soldiers back home and that’s what I’m doing.”

Imagine if John Kennedy had done that in Vietnam, as many historians believe he was on the verge of doing when he was assassinated. More than 50,000 American lives saved. Imagine if George W. Bush had withdrawn from Iraq after accomplishing our stated goal of forcing the collapse of the Saddam Hussein government and establishing that there were no weapons of mass destruction. More than 4,000 American lives saved. Imagine if Barack Obama had withdrawn from Afghanistan as he said he would do. Another 1,200 or more American lives saved. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of native lives lost in those conflicts as a result of American presidents wielding American power overseas.

Yet when President Trump announced he was pulling back a few dozen soldiers in Syria, the amnesiac Washington establishment rose up almost in unison to condemn him for not standing firm against Turkey, as if heightening tensions in the short term would somehow provide a long-term solution that did not inevitably lead to U.S. forces engaged in yet another ground war in Asia.

Are any of those high and mighty senators willing to start World War III to support the Kurds? Turkey is supposed to be a crucial ally. Are we willing to push them toward Russia or China instead? Let's not forget that Russia is already in Syria and Iran is in Syria. Let’s not forget that Israel has a vested interest in the outcome of any shooting war in the region. Let's also not forget that Saudi Arabia is already on the brink of war with Iran. And let's not forget how treaties and national interests and hot blood led to the carnage of World War I.

Let's not go that way again."

www.realclearpolitics.com...


And the hypocrisy of the left here can not go unchallenged

" President Trump has met resistance from both parties after his decision to withdraw troops from northern Syria, but some of the rhetoric coming from Democrats is almost the opposite of what came from party members when President Barack Obama pulled forces out of Iraq.

California Democrats Rep. Maxine Waters and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, for example, have been vocal opponents of Trump's troop withdrawal, after supporting Obama's efforts almost exactly eight years later.

“As the war in Iraq draws to a close, it is my hope that this conflict will serve as a solemn reminder of the costs of war,” Waters said in a statement issued Oct. 21, 2011. “We must carefully reexamine our approach to national security and how we view the United States' role in promoting international peace and security. If we are to remain leaders in the world, we must always use our best judgment to determine when and how we engage other nations and other actors – particularly if we are considering the use of military force.”

Waters’ approach to the United States’ role in world affairs is similar to Trump’s recent warnings against “fighting other people’s wars.”

www.foxnews.com...

That same day, Pelosi came out against Trump, warning that leaving northern Syria could lead to an ISIS resurgence.

DEMS STORM OUT OF SYRIA MEETING WITH TRUMP: 'WE HAVE TO PRAY FOR HIS HEALTH'

“This reckless, misguided decision undermines the efforts by our brave servicemembers and our allies to end ISIS’s tyranny,” she said.

But while Republicans had similar concerns about withdrawing from Iraq in 2011, Pelosi praised Obama “for a promise made and a promise kept, honoring the U.S.-Iraq Security Agreement and the wishes of the American people to bring all our troops home by the end this year.”

Pelosi stormed out of a meeting with Trump Wednesday after what she said was a "meltdown" by the president.

One of the Democratic frontrunners for the 2020 presidential nomination, Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., was also critical of Trump, despite being historically anti-war.

“You don’t turn your back on an ally that lost 11,000 troops fighting against terrorism through a tweet and a discussion with Erdogan,” Sanders told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos. This criticism came despite Sanders acknowledgment that “I am a strong opponent of endless wars.”

That position was made evident in 2011 when Sanders backed Obama’s Iraq withdrawal.

“I applaud the president's decision and have been advocating that position for quite a while,” adding, “Now is the time to bring our troops home, lower our military budget, and use those funds to create jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure and lowering our national debt."

On Thursday, Trump vented about Democratic criticism. "I am the only person who can fight for the safety of our troops & bring them home from the ridiculous & costly Endless Wars, and be scorned. Democrats always liked that position, until I took it," he said.

Exactly that. Democrats held the same positions until orange man held it.
And I would bet that a thorough search on ATS would uncover that same hypocrisy by many ATS members speaking out right now against Trump's move.

I'm far too lazy and old for such an endeavor.

And just in case you skipped the RealClearPolitics article I'll include one last quote-

"President Trump has held the sword of economic sanctions over the head of Erdogan and the Turkish people. It may not be as immediate a threat as cruise missiles, but it is less likely to tip us into a regional conflagration that could cost innumerable lives.

But that’s clearly not good enough for the warmongers in Congress. The House voted 354-60 to condemn the president’s decision to withdraw forces from Syria. Tell you what, if they really want to have an impact, let them vote to declare war on Turkey, because that’s the real meaning of siding with the Kurds.

Instead of rattling their sabers, you would think that Democrats (and more than a few Republicans) would eventually come to the same conclusion as me — that American power is best wielded on behalf of the greatest chance of peace rather than the best chance of war.


It would also be encouraging to see our other allies in NATO and the Mideast step out of the shadows and make their own commitments to either protect the Kurds with military force or to support President Trump's goal of limiting violence by gearing down U.S. engagement in the powder keg that is Syria.

We have now seen the warning letter President Trump sent to Erdogan. The corrupt media wondered if it might be fake, apparently because they thought it should be couched in more “diplomatic” language. But as for me and the other Deplorables whose children inevitably turn out to be cannon fodder, it struck just the right tone:

"History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way," Trump wrote to Erdogan. "It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool!"

That last part could just as equally have been addressed to the tough guys in Congress and the military-industrial complex who think war is the solution to every problem: Don’t be fools!"

a reply to: shooterbrody

So, no authority, citation, quote or evidence offered besides your opinion. Thanks.

originally posted by: Oraculi

originally posted by: drewlander
a reply to: Oraculi

Who exactly do these 354 politicians represent? Perhaps you should move to another country if you want representation in that country.

I'll explain, maybe you are not American.

The US House of Representatives has 435 members. I think we actually have 434 right now, but I could be wrong.

Those 354 are all Americans, and have been democratically elected by Americans. The sheer fact that 354 voted to oppose the president tells us that 354 out of 435 is an ENORMOUS majority, and they speak for the people that elected them.

Irrespective of whether you are an American or not, ask away, I will be happy to educate you on how our democratic system works.

And all 354 of them have a vested interest that we stay in the middle east till we take over the whole dam place for the western oil companies lol.

No decently educated military General or Admiral would keep his forces in between two much larger forces like that with another massive one ready to pounce on one side for sure if the situation get out of hand. That massive one being Russia.

The only thing protecting Turkey from Russia is our forces are still in Turkey which have kept NATO from pulling their membership, as a safety measure till we can get all our troops and weapons out.

US troops are pulling out of Syria and evacuating to our joint base in Turkey or Israel. When all of our troops and weapons are safely out of Turkey it will only be days before a massive war breaks out.

a reply to: Oraculi

If i just found out there were 354 war mongers looking to profit off of the military industrial complex and profit off the backs of US troops, I would be mad too

a reply to: Oraculi

Whatever he had chosen you left-wing "never Trump" crowd would have made a mockery of the POTUS, and would bash him for his choice. If he had chosen to back the Kurds, you, other left-wingers, the left-wing media, the entire DNC and RINOs whom are part of the establishment would have bashed at POTUS Trump for siding against a NATO ally... Turkey is a NATO ally in case you didn't know. So either way you, and the rest of the left would have bashed at the POTUS.

This sort of thread only shows the truth about those posting such threads, and not about the POTUS. POTUS Trump is trying to resolve this through diplomacy and sanctions if diplomacy doesn't work.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Trump recklessly pulled out without even telling our allies (not just the Kurds, but our other European allies) or having a plan, leaving both the Kurds and US troops under fire.

Then, his "deal" did nothing except (attempt to fix his stupid mistake) give Turkey what it wanted (Kurdish territory along the border), suspension of sanctions, a "pause" that only allowed US forces to withdraw and Kurds to leave the territory Turkey wanted to begin with rather than be slaughtered. Turkey gets the territory, Turkey gets no sanctions, Kurds are supposed to abandon the territory they have lived on or else get slaughtered, US is bombing its own bases because they can't evacuate properly and need to destroy equipment, and the bases that are left are left in tact for Russia, Syria, etc to raid. Who knows what intel is there.

Nice "deal." Just handed Turkey (and Russia) everything it could ask for while undermining our national security.

Just plain stupid. By a stupid reckless man.

a reply to: Liquesence

Nice "deal." Just handed Turkey (and Russia) everything it could ask for while undermining our national security.

How is Syria suddenly vital to our National Security? When did that occur? By Everything, I assume you mean Syria. What claims do we have on their Territory? Who should control Syria?

What, in your opinion, is our goal in Syria. Please be specific. What would it take for us to withdraw troops in Syria?