JFK's Car

Few weeks ago I went to the 6th Floor School Book Depository Museum. Exceptional museum. They give you headphones and a small handheld tablet the size of a smartphone. The tours timeline starts years before the assassination with lots of artifacts from the decade. Gives a great sense of what was going on in the world and the US and slowly pulls you through it. I highly recommend it to anyone visiting Dallas.

One thing however stood out to me. I took a course on the topic in college and thought I knew just about everything but the museum reveled something that blew me away.

JFK was offered a bullet proof bubble for his car by the FBI. The public sentiment in Dallas was toxic. Like beyond Trump level toxic in some regards but JFK turned them down on the offer and shrugged off the concern.

That made me think, how could the FBI be considered in on it if they offered him a bullet proof bubble. What if he took it. Their plan would torn up. And what if he starts demanding the bubble at all times. If they were in on it, why even offer the bubble. It put a major hole in the FBI theory for me.

Or what if it is just plain old revisionism to make the FBI seem clean?

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I did find this:

That clear plastic bubble roof was not installed when one or more gunmen opened fire on the president during his parade through the streets of Dallas on November 22nd, 1963, but it likely wouldn’t have made a whole lot of difference. The bubble roof, it is now known, was not bullet-resistant, let alone bulletproof. A summary report from a Secret Service agent on detail that day described the top as being bulletproof, but curator Gary Mack of Dallas’ Sixth Floor Museum says this is likely because that agent did not want other agencies to know it offered no real protection.

Link

ETA Also a discussion here stating that the "shield" was made of plexiglass. Not exactly bullet-proof.

Bill Moyers is the man that told JFK not to use the bubble.
He went on to become President Johnson's Press Secretary.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
Or what if it is just plain old revisionism to make the FBI seem clean?

It's certainly possible. Maybe the other occupants in the car verified the conversation at some point? If they did, it would be very difficult for me personally to not exclude the FBI as in on it.

I will say, after looking out the sniper's nest and being a former Marine, Oswald could have totally pulled it off. I always thought it was a tough shot but after looking at it in person it's not hard at all. Major choke point and well within easy target practice for even a pizza box Marine. Hell, we all had to qualify hitting a target from 800 meters. He knew what he was doing, even with that crap rifle.

Funny how the bubble story is told at the Museum. They said JFK didn't want it due to the optics in Dallas and seeming he was distancing himself from the public. He wanted to show them he was open to them and cared.

They also did not go into detail on the functionality of the bubble. I do know those acrylic bubbles are impossible to break with a hammer even residential skylight bubbles. It would seem the FBI would have tested it with bullets. As someone said, part it could take a bullet, part of it not?

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
and being a former Marine, Oswald could have totally pulled it off.

WRONG

Are you lying, stupid or just trying to keep secrets? Because it has been public knowledge for decades that the Marine Corps best sniper could not make that shot. He could not do what they claimed Oswald did. He himself said there was no way Oswald, known to be a lousy shot, could have made those shots in the amount of time even if Oswald was as good as him, and he was the Marines best shot.

"Carlos “Gunny” Hathcock, sniper (USMC), the Marine Corps’ premier sniper with 93 confirmed kills including history’s longest single kill-shot of 2,500 meters, nominated for the Congressional Medal of Honor for action in Vietnam, former chief instructor of the USMC Sniper’s School, at Quantico, Virginia. (Note: Gunny Hathcock proved the impossibility of the lone-nutter scenario during tests he personally conducted at Quantico."

"Retired Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock is likewise skeptical of Oswald's alleged shooting feat. Hathcock is a former senior instructor at the U. S. Marine Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. He has been described as the most famous American military sniper in history. In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills. He now conducts police SWAT team sniper schools across the country. Craig Roberts asked Hathcock about the marksmanship feat attributed to Oswald by the Warren Commission. Hathcock answered that he did not believe Oswald could have done what the Commission said he did. Added Hathcock:

"Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did". (KILL ZONE, pp. 89-90).

The bubble would have only prevented being "milkshaked "

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I would theorize that then (just like present day), there were competing factions WITHIN the FBI, with different agendas.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
and being a former Marine, Oswald could have totally pulled it off.

WRONG

Are you lying, stupid or just trying to keep secrets? Because it has been public knowledge for decades that the Marine Corps best sniper could not make that shot. He could not do what they claimed Oswald did. He himself said there was no way Oswald, known to be a lousy shot, could have made those shots in the amount of time even if Oswald was as good as him, and he was the Marines best shot.

"Carlos “Gunny” Hathcock, sniper (USMC), the Marine Corps’ premier sniper with 93 confirmed kills including history’s longest single kill-shot of 2,500 meters, nominated for the Congressional Medal of Honor for action in Vietnam, former chief instructor of the USMC Sniper’s School, at Quantico, Virginia. (Note: Gunny Hathcock proved the impossibility of the lone-nutter scenario during tests he personally conducted at Quantico."

"Retired Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock is likewise skeptical of Oswald's alleged shooting feat. Hathcock is a former senior instructor at the U. S. Marine Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. He has been described as the most famous American military sniper in history. In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills. He now conducts police SWAT team sniper schools across the country. Craig Roberts asked Hathcock about the marksmanship feat attributed to Oswald by the Warren Commission. Hathcock answered that he did not believe Oswald could have done what the Commission said he did. Added Hathcock:

"Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did". (KILL ZONE, pp. 89-90).

Being a former Devil Dog myself (there are no ex Marines only former Marines) and coming from a long line of Devil Dog's, this carries an awful lot of weight with me.

My father was a gunny. I enlisted after college so after boot camp at Parris Island I went in as a 2nd lt but gunny's are the backbone of the Corps.

Always has been, always will be. Ask any Marine...

Dad...enlisted during the Korean War. My tour was from '83-'88.

We won't know the truth for another 100 years and even then. JFK ruffled alot of feathers with tough guys as well as the Cubans and the FBI. The Warren Report was sadly lacking in so much detail despite it's bulk. I'm sure I will never know in my lifetime.

Definitely offered knowing moyer's, Johnson, and sec svc all would talk him out of it with fake reassurance.

originally posted by: JHumm
The bubble would have only prevented being "milkshaked "

Wow. As I stated, I am a former Marine. NOBODY gets that title without being able to hit a target from 800 meters. It is a long, long way. No other branch does it. And that's not even expert. That's just to get a passing pizza box award which Oswald did.

Unless you are a Marine and qualified from that distance you should not be commenting on what can and can't be done with a rifle. Oswald had damn good training. He wasn't an expert but he was a good shot nonetheless.

You should also not be commenting unless you go look out of his sniper's nest which I did. I looked at the same sight picture he had that day. It was a severe choke point. The cars were going very slow. It was not that far. I could have done it easily with that crap rifle if I had some target practice which he did from the shooting rifle range records.

Third, he did not report back to work after the incident and his logs from that morning showed he accomplish no work. He filled no book orders. He was arrested later in a movie theater. Why didn't he go back to work? What was he doing watching movies when a massive world event just happened right in front of his work.

a reply to: Riffrafter
May GOD bless you and your family for your service.
MAGA!

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

Without getting in to too much details, I've done a similar shot, and so did a few others I know back when I worked for a Private Military group. It's not a hard shot to anyone that has any range time and knows their gear. Hey though, believe whatever you want, but before you do talk to a few former military folks and get their unfiltered perspective on the shot (just don't say anything about JFK, and only talk about the shot it self) You'll find what they say interesting to say the least.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

'' The 6th floor book depository has been kept in the exact same state it was the day JFK died. The boxes, the books, the window and no Lee Harvey Oswald anywhere ''

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Third, he did not report back to work after the incident and his logs from that morning showed he accomplish no work. He filled no book orders. He was arrested later in a movie theater. Why didn't he go back to work? What was he doing watching movies when a massive world event just happened right in front of his work.

I am not trying to be rude here but you have to be really naive to believe that someone who possibly realized that they are a patsy and set up for the murder of the most powerful man in the world, is supposed to go on about his regular routine and act if he is innocent.

Unfortunately the water has been purposefully muddied too much to ever discern the truth and we will never ever know what truly happened.

originally posted by: Violater1
a reply to: Riffrafter
May GOD bless you and your family for your service.
MAGA!

Thanks Violater1.

Unlike my Dad's tour of duty, mine was relatively uneventful unless you count a few bar room brawls now & then.

My Dad was a terrific father and a good man. He spent a lot of time with me and my 3 younger sisters when we were growing up, although as his only son I got more of his time than my sisters.

After leaving the Corps he went to college, got married, and had a family. He was a mechanical engineer, but decided when I was 8 yrs old that he wanted to be a NYC firefighter (FDNY).

My mother almost had a stroke for a variety of reasons not the least of which was the cut in pay he/we had to endure. But he did what he wanted to do and spent a lot of time with his family when he wasn't working. I thought it was the greatest thing in the world.

I tried to do the same with my kids and I think/hope it paid off. No drugs or criminality there - at least that I know of.

He passed away in 2010. I still miss him every day.

Nah, everybody ran to the N W to the corner....grassy with a 5 foot fence and railyard beyond

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
Few weeks ago I went to the 6th Floor School Book Depository Museum. Exceptional museum. They give you headphones and a small handheld tablet the size of a smartphone. The tours timeline starts years before the assassination with lots of artifacts from the decade. Gives a great sense of what was going on in the world and the US and slowly pulls you through it. I highly recommend it to anyone visiting Dallas.

One thing however stood out to me. I took a course on the topic in college and thought I knew just about everything but the museum reveled something that blew me away.

JFK was offered a bullet proof bubble for his car by the FBI. The public sentiment in Dallas was toxic. Like beyond Trump level toxic in some regards but JFK turned them down on the offer and shrugged off the concern.

Lest you proliferate completely untrue 'factoids', which by the way you should have checked before posting here, there was a plastic bubble available for the Limo but it was by no means bullet proof or even bullet resistant. It might have 'deflected' a bullet and would certainly show up if it was perforated by a projectile.

It was merely a plastic bubble. It would have been good if there was a parade when it was raining.

It would have been a bad thing for those plotting in DP, because the holes in it would have disclosed the various firing positions from which snipers fired.

Just don't want this loose comment of yours to get out there as a 'fact'.