musings on bigfoot's elusiveness

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Awesome video ! I was worried for a sec.

a reply to: seagull

Just wondering if you found that pic? I know you didn't promise anything
just check'n.

I was able to find this.



Sure looks to be the right height.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The possibility they are humans beings

I do not think they are humans. The only human thing about them is that they look human and are bipedal. But they do not build things. They do not use fire. Etc, etc.

You know I'm sort of on the fence with this one, the whole; " I do not think they are humans.". Yep I see where your coming from on the human stance... hmmm, I might elaborate below on my Hmmm moment.

But I think some researchers might disagree with the statement; "But they do not build things."

I'm sure some would consider (as primitive as they might be) the areas for the (supposed) gathering and building nesting areas, taking trees/branches and forming structures, primitive tree-knock long-distant communication, the use of strategic group logic to track/hunt a prey.

I'm sure these researchers would say that those are all evidence of intelligence. So building human like things, errr no, but they're certainly not dumb... on the contrary. And in regards to however far in the scale of their species evolution goes ('cause I don't), I think they resemble (& RESEMBLE only, nothing else) perhaps what early man was like being a part in an early clan/tribe/etc.

[Warning... Theory Alert!] The lack of fire in their culture might be because they eat all things raw and also fire gives one's position away and I've come to the line of thinking that these 'what-ever's' have always wanted to be clandestine in their everyday life. They have developed strategies for evading capture by scaling terrain that would put a mountain goat to shame. How? Perhaps because by they're 'watching/observing' they already know our limitation's. The Hairy people probably think were the primitive one's by having these huge fires giving away one's location. I wonder if in their mind they, think of us being the 'Hairless' ones? [This concludes this Alert]

As I say all the time.. that's only a theory that probably doesn't mean squat on whatever scale of reality this 'thing' is on. But I will add solely on some personal experiences with 'something-or-another', is this... I don't trust them one bit. I think they're opportunistic and I won't stray far from the car unarmed if I'm in the mountains.

Kind of hate ending the post on that note... so I'll instead give a short summary of a found old email (while attempting to clean out old dusty emails), from a close friend who shared a story to me awhile back about himself and a fellow school mate observing a family of three hairy something's. This would've been 1963-64ish on the Northern Bay Area Coast of California.

They were following train tracks into a little township where they would buy cigarettes to sell back in school. The walk took them past a military dump.

It was here thay saw a threesome of hairy something's that to them resembled Apes, and they were all looking downward as they moved. The Mother who was clutching an small hairy 'something' jumped to one side as the (supposedly thought to be) Male from a standing stop jumped to what the boys considered to be 25-30 feet forward in front of the group, (the boys had moved meantime over to one side of the tracks and knelt down to hopefully conceal themselves).

When the large creature stood up he revealed back (to perhaps family/clan members) a smashed rabbit. The boys both thought that it had to be a rabbit because of the long ears.

Suddenly the large one (with rabbit) saw the boys and starting grinning at them, but not really grinning, but definitely displaying it's large teeth while slowly moving towards the other two creatures. Supposedly it never took it's eyes off of them as he shuttles them together and they all moved away from the boys.

And yes.. the boys still went to the store and bought the smokes,, Seeing something incredible is one thing.. but making easy money is a powerful drug to a kid with not much money.


Johnny

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

They pre-date European colonizers.

But you could be right, sort of, because I suspect they have hybridized with homo sapiens.

a reply to: Blue Shift

People always talk.

Get to know their immediate family.

I'm just going to post links to pertinent articles.

orangutan and gigantopithecus split from common ancestor 10 million years ago.

Even though chimps and bonobos are 99% genetically identical to homo sapiens, orangutans are more similar to humans physiologically.

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: turbonium1

peer reviews - sasquatch genome project

like the Bigfoot itself, the study is also highly controversial.

It basically says it's DNA shows affinity to human AND chimpanzee along with other primates.

So this DNA sequence doesn't discount a species of large bili/Bondo chimpanzee that may grow a lot bigger in the Pacific Northwest geographic location.

PLUS, if it has indeed hybridized with homo sapiens presently or in the past, it may have become even bigger like what has been observed of the liger which is bigger than its lion and tiger parents.

I think this just about wraps it up for this thread

Mods, if you would, kindly append a copy of THIS post to my OP.

Bigfoot forensic dental records

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

It's entirely possible that they are a "type" of Human.
There have been many debates over the years because they don't/can't/won't participate in our society. Not too different than Native Americans who were forced to assimilate. Altho given bigfoots size I can't imagine we'd of won that particular scenario.

However there are reports of bigfoot finding some of our things useful. Clothes, bottles, pails, etcetera.
In reality we leave stuff unsecured all over the place. If something goes missing we also do the predictable thing of either blaming the kids or blaming it on forgetfulness.

I agree they are opportunistic and it's no stretch to assume things get borrowed only to be found many miles away by someone else who mutters "damn litterbugs!!!"

Add to that we are watched by them.
It's one thing to scoff at a bigfoot just knowing how to use our things, but in reality it's also not that difficult to get context by watching someone use an item. Despite knowing how to use a pocketknife I will blatantly say the latch on most STILL gives me fits! Getting it open is 99% of the problem and I'm Human!!! But a pail?
Easy-peasey!!

My original point was while they refuse to meaningfully deal with us it doesn't negate they are possibly a "type" of Human. From their perspective they've seen everything from us wiping out Native Americans, to the revolutionary war, to the civil war and slavery. I can't imagine we've done anything but already teach them we are to be feared. That we are a threat. There are oral stories as well of our diseases hitting them as hard as they did Native populations.

Looking at the coin from their side to remain hidden is in their best interests.
Altho obviously their curiosity from time to time gets the better of them. In the last twenty years we've been a "People" who have predictable routines. We go from a square box, to a smaller square box with wheels leave for the day, come back and go right back into the larger square box.

"If" we are outside our patterns are routine and predictable.
We mow the lawn, maybe some gardening never paying any attention to the properties borders while we're out there.
We are seriously making the observation of us ridiculously simple! Even if you don't ascribe to bigfoot as being more than an animal, most animals learn thru observation.

Sure there have been instances of some doing limited interactions with Humans on an individual basis, but in reality we are no different. It's easy to slam Islam because of ISIS, but your muslim neighbor? Nice people!
ROFL! ( no offense meant with this analogy)
If you watch the patterning of bigfoot interactions it's a fair assumption "some" of them do exactly the same thing! Stereotyping us as we also stereotype them. I'd say that's a fair "tell" they may be more Human than we'd care to admit.

None of this is all hearts an roses. We have "thugs" they have "thugs". Just like anywhere it's a crap-shoot what kind of person or "other" you're going to run across.

Why are they ridiculously big, strong, and fast?

Like I said size in animals, particularly mammals, is somewhat because of geography.

Look up insular dwarfism.

I suspect homo sapiens is also to blame for this in more ways than one.

Because of sheer numbers, we hunted and ate competitors. We weeded out the weak from among them and drove them to the brink of extinction; leaving behind only the most fearsome, biggest, strongest, and fastest among them mostly.

That would also be the reason why they avoid us like poison for the most part.

Also, like I said before, they may have hybridized with us because they are closely related.

And just like the liger is bigger than its tiger and lion parents, the hybrid is bigger.

Their incredible qualities can be explained by nature.

They don't have to be magical supernatural nephilim like other people want them to be.

They are animals, mammals, primates, hominids, and apes just like you and me.

As reject outlines above, Biggies can take care of themselves against any creature. Humans cannot. Humans must create weapons and rely on numbers for their survival.

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous
The lack of fire in their culture might be because they eat all things raw and also fire gives one's position away and I've come to the line of thinking that these 'what-ever's' have always wanted to be clandestine in their everyday life.

I agree with all that. Fire would be the most dangerous thing to their living environment. Surely they hate fire. And forest fires would be the worst.

originally posted by: reject

Bigfoot forensic dental records

There sure is a lot of hate in the comments section. I wonder why people get so mad over the idea that other people might think Bigfoot exist.

There are some great comments there though, for example:

"Mike Van Volkenburg says
“Skeptics are brain-washed into thinking that nothing exists other than what is known.”
It’s called ethnocentrism.

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous
My original point was while they refuse to meaningfully deal with us it doesn't negate they are possibly a "type" of Human. From their perspective they've seen everything from us wiping out Native Americans, to the revolutionary war, to the civil war and slavery. I can't imagine we've done anything but already teach them we are to be feared. That we are a threat. There are oral stories as well of our diseases hitting them as hard as they did Native populations.

I would tend to lean towards accepting 90% of what you've mentioned/presented. I'll go a step further and postulate that with the history that 'they' may have been observing all this time that in their (possibly autistic) minds, we are the primitive ones as we continue to destroy land (and other detriments) in the name of civilization.

** (SIDENOTE)**



A YouTuber named Bob Gymlan has some interesting slants to the BigFoot phenomena and the above pic is from one of his posts Great Apes, Game Cameras, And The Bigfoot Implications and I have to say that he makes for some very interesting discussion and arguments that made me have a few 'Hmmm Moments'. (I need to thank Karl 12 for pointing me towards Bob's channel.. thanks Karl).

I long have wondered about the lack of game-cam footage/pictures and the examples he provided are not only sound, they make logical sense after being compared to chimps, apes, etc. being captured on a game-cam. It's worth the watch/listen. There were several points brought out in behavior that when presented with an object that was foreign (or possible threat), that they chose to evade/avoid contact in that area (percentage wise).

I mention the above because I believe the same holds true as what Caver78 infers... you don't need a whole lot of brain usage to know that we humans are dangerous and evasion would be beneficial to the survival of a tribe/clan.

Of course... it's pure conjecture on my part, but seems logical. I think for many of us (including myself at times), we can't help but think like a human and we may wonder 'why they do this or they do that'. Since they don't have to worry about politics or right or wrong then their life is solely in the moment and if something doesn't seem right, then they avoid it.

I once spoke with a tribal elder of the Karuk tribe (Near Happy Camp, CA.) about earlier dealings with the Hairy One's. He said that his Grandmother told tales of the large hairy creatures and the Karuks once living peacefully together (supposedly even trading/bartering with them). He went on to mention that seeing a family of Hairy Ones strolling down the River banks heading towards or returning from the Pacific Ocean were not uncommon.

Then one fierce winter with the lack of food, wildlife (and other) to survive on forced the Hairy Ones to sneak in and steal the Karuks food stores and later on even some Karuks were abducted. It didn't bode well for either side and the hairy ones were hunted down.

This is not an isolated event if one believes the other many tales by native tribes thru-out the World with regard to the 'Hairy Ones'. In some ways, would not a Human family do possibly the same to try and survive if hungry enough?

Johnny

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

Interesting point, but I have to point out just how many reports there are of them coming close to people while sitting around a campfire.

Dunno about you but I have yet to hang out around a campfire where at least one person couldn't resist poking it, feeding it more wood, picking hot ashes from around whatever ring is being used to contain it. They watch an there is no possible way they also aren't learning. I think you're overestimating their fear of fire.

One video comes to mind of a bunch of young adults around a fire and while goofing off one of them fell backwards and accidentally flushed what certainly appeared to be a startled bigfoot. The fire flared and the kid fell backwards. So pretty good video of a hair covered "something" in firelight that was twice the size of the kids dashing back out of camera range.

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous
My original point was while they refuse to meaningfully deal with us it doesn't negate they are possibly a "type" of Human. From their perspective they've seen everything from us wiping out Native Americans, to the revolutionary war, to the civil war and slavery. I can't imagine we've done anything but already teach them we are to be feared. That we are a threat. There are oral stories as well of our diseases hitting them as hard as they did Native populations.

I would tend to lean towards accepting 90% of what you've mentioned/presented. I'll go a step further and postulate that with the history that 'they' may have been observing all this time that in their (possibly autistic) minds, we are the primitive ones as we continue to destroy land (and other detriments) in the name of civilization.

** (SIDENOTE)**

A YouTuber named Bob Gymlan has some interesting slants to the BigFoot phenomena and the above pic is from one of his posts Great Apes, Game Cameras, And The Bigfoot Implications and I have to say that he makes for some very interesting discussion and arguments that made me have a few 'Hmmm Moments'. (I need to thank Karl 12 for pointing me towards Bob's channel.. thanks Karl).

I long have wondered about the lack of game-cam footage/pictures and the examples he provided are not only sound, they make logical sense after being compared to chimps, apes, etc. being captured on a game-cam. It's worth the watch/listen. There were several points brought out in behavior that when presented with an object that was foreign (or possible threat), that they chose to evade/avoid contact in that area (percentage wise).

I mention the above because I believe the same holds true as what Caver78 infers... you don't need a whole lot of brain usage to know that we humans are dangerous and evasion would be beneficial to the survival of a tribe/clan.

Of course... it's pure conjecture on my part, but seems logical. I think for many of us (including myself at times), we can't help but think like a human and we may wonder 'why they do this or they do that'. Since they don't have to worry about politics or right or wrong then their life is solely in the moment and if something doesn't seem right, then they avoid it.

I once spoke with a tribal elder of the Karuk tribe (Near Happy Camp, CA.) about earlier dealings with the Hairy One's. He said that his Grandmother told tales of the large hairy creatures and the Karuks once living peacefully together (supposedly even trading/bartering with them). He went on to mention that seeing a family of Hairy Ones strolling down the River banks heading towards or returning from the Pacific Ocean were not uncommon.

Then one fierce winter with the lack of food, wildlife (and other) to survive on forced the Hairy Ones to sneak in and steal the Karuks food stores and later on even some Karuks were abducted. It didn't bode well for either side and the hairy ones were hunted down.

This is not an isolated event if one believes the other many tales by native tribes thru-out the World with regard to the 'Hairy Ones'. In some ways, would not a Human family do possibly the same to try and survive if hungry enough?

Johnny

They are definitely NOT human, If you had seen one you would know this right away. I also doubt that they are like the natives and were hit by human virus and illness. Simply not human so this is not going to be a problem. The great apes and chimps don't catch our viruses, although they can catch and pass similar ones that do effect their species. The physiology and biology is too different however for most of this to have any effect on them. Habitat pressure, food pressure, big time threat to all of their species.
There are many stories, word of mouth, handed down from the ancestors about bigfoot and the giants. They were much more afraid of the Giants, who stole and ate their children than they ever were bigfoot. for most tribes there was not trade as mentioned here, simply did not happen. Not really sure where this story comes from and why. For the most part, all tribes either revere bigfoot or fear them as an evil spirit entity. They leave them alone and hope they will do the same. They DO NOT feed them or trade with them. Even those that respect and revere them leave them alone and do not attempt contact. This is tribal law.... Every tribe in our nation has oral stories about both bigfoot and the giant one's that goes back as far as the stories go....

But no, the common cold is not killing bigfoot lol...

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

Of course... it's pure conjecture on my part, but seems logical. I think for many of us (including myself at times), we can't help but think like a human and we may wonder 'why they do this or they do that'. Since they don't have to worry about politics or right or wrong then their life is solely in the moment and if something doesn't seem right, then they avoid it.

This is something that bears lots of consideration. What they do doesn't have to make sense to us. Until we start looking at things from their "possible" perspectives it's going to be just a head scratching exercise.

Things discussed in the past have been how their eyes are deep set yet farther apart then ours. This is obviously going to give them a different field of vision than us. I've linked this before in other threads but it was discovered that reindeer's eyes change from summer to winter. In the winter more rods become active (IIRC) so they are able to see much better in no light-low light.

It was discovered that Tigers have a square (ish) larynx so are able to produce the very low hertz communications. We don't know what type of larynx a bigfoot has, but going by the different types of "probably" recordings it certainly isn't like ours.

They haven't been exposed thru diet to all the processed crap we shovel down and studies are just lately pointing to the different gut biomes.These studies are pointing to populations of humans who fare just fine on more antiquated diets much more similar to bigfoots than our own. We don't know that they can't digest things that would clog us up sending us right to the ER.

Now I can't say a lot of this is conclusive, but there IS precedence for us to remain open minded.
I also can't say as I think they fear us as much as they see no real benefit in not staying separate from us. They wouldn't be the first either. The latest has been that Tribe in South America whose name escapes me.

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: spiritualarchitect
One video comes to mind of a bunch of young adults around a fire and while goofing off one of them fell backwards and accidentally flushed what certainly appeared to be a startled bigfoot. The fire flared and the kid fell backwards. So pretty good video of a hair covered "something" in firelight that was twice the size of the kids dashing back out of camera range.

Oh wow if you can find the link I'd be gratful or in the least, do you happen to remember the title and I'll try to find it.

Johnny

a reply to: carsforkids

No, I haven't. The box with that particular book in it must still be in storage, and will be 'til after the first of year, in all likelihood.

Sorry.

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

That's going to take some serious digging, it was from around 2008-2010.
If it's not been deleted.

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

No problem Johnny and there's certainly some interesting content on that channel.

For folks who haven't seen it there's also more info below on the bizarre MIB Bigfoot incident from the Superior Trailer Court n 1974:

See 11:30

Also, when it comes to possible connections to missing people, there's an interesting comparison map below involving American cave systems..



Cheers.

originally posted by: Caver78
I think you're overestimating their fear of fire.

So pretty good video of a hair covered "something" in firelight that was twice the size of the kids dashing back out of camera range.

Fear + wonder?

I too have seen that video.

a reply to: karl 12

Can't help mentally snickering to myself because recent usn personnel witnesses kind of confirmed government personnel pretty much behaved like mib during that UFO flap.

Anyway, I just want to point out our nearest "cousins' like the bonobos, chimpanzees, orangutans, and gorillas are all arboreal (tree dwellers) but our ancestors are spelunkers hence "CAVEmen."

Also, I'd like to share very recent recordings of an unknown animal roaring.

To me, I think it sounded like it may be in a cave whatever that mofo was.