An Explanation for Bob Lazars Area 51 Story and the Tic Tac UFO

In researching plasma based radar spoofing I came across a good theory for what a lot of UFOs could be, including the Tic Tac UFO. A plasma based radar spoofing tool. And in all probability this is what was taking place out at Groom Lake..

Given Groom’s primary mission involving radar measures and countermeasures, my sense 20 years ago was that they were testing something possibly for use in radar spoofing. However the fact it apparently still remains classified today (an important element in the explanation of Lazar’s tale) suggests maybe its purpose was something else, perhaps an attempt at a Star Wars-type weapon.

In the 1980s and 90s there were many reports in the southwest US of slow moving, virtually silent big, black triangular aircraft only seen at night. I’ve written a bit about those here. I was told, by those that know about this stuff, that the project’s classification, continued to this day, was due to these craft violating some provisions of weapons treaties the US had signed. I would speculate that the proton accelerator at Groom generating those flamin’ balls o’ plasma 30 years ago might in a similar manner also violate some weapons treaties and must thus stay severely under wraps.

So let me be completely clear: The Wednesday night glowing orbs seen in the skies over Groom Lake by Lazar et al were NOT “craft”, they were plasmas generated by operation of a high powered proton accelerator dumping its beam into the atmosphere. And…..Lazar knew this.

Now as someone with a real Masters in Physics (with a focus on gravitation, no less!) I could go on for many pages pissing all over Lazar’s nonsensical tale. But it would have to become very technical and the hardcore Lazar believers would not be swayed, so why should I bother?

But this quicky should be easy for anyone to understand…..Recall that Lazar surfaced with his tale well before gravitational wave observatories, such as LIGO, VIRGO, GEO 600 and TAMA, had even been designed, much less made operational. If Lazar’s saucers did indeed operate like he claimed, grabbing distant portions of spacetime and pulling it toward them, they would generate enough gravitational waves to knock the observatories’ interferometer mirrors off their damn mounts. OK, maybe a slight exaggeration, but any near-Earth operations of the saucers described by Lazar would result in huge gravitational wave signals. Wait…..Unless the observatories are part of the coverup!!! Um….nope.

Aside from dealing with Lazar’s science being absolute rubbish, I also need to discuss what those glowing objects, seen by many over Groom Lake, actually were. They were, as I apparently didn’t lay out forcefully enough 20 years ago, the result of the operation of a proton beam device. I repeat….THEY WERE GD PARTICLE BEAMS!!! There, having said that I feel much better.

So enough of this setup. Let’s get into the meat of this tale.

From what I have seen, much of the argument supporting Lazar’s story on Reddit revolves around “waddabouts”. By this I mean that posters say that, “If Lazar’s story wasn’t true, then how do you explain ?” You know, “what abouts?”.

The following isn’t a complete list, but covers most that occur repeatedly (I’m assuming you already have familiarity with the details of Lazar’s story else it’s unlikely you’d be reading this) :

• Lazar worked at Los Alamos, showed George Knapp around there and people seemed to know him. His name was in the phone book in 1982.
• The Los Alamos newspaper story on Lazar and his jet car called him a physicist with the lab.
• In Las Vegas, security personnel, observed by others, visited Lazar at his home.
• Lazar was noted by friends and family to “disappear” as part of a job.
• He was able to correctly describe certain aspects of the facilities at Groom Lake.
• He identified a location known as S-4 in the Nellis Range.
• Lazar was able to correctly name specific people involved in the security process.
• Edward Teller appeared to react visibly and uncomfortably when asked about Lazar in an interview.
• He received a W-2 form from the government.
• After Lazar’s story broke, some media members observed possible government surveillance and intimidation efforts.
• Also after Lazar went public, persons around Lazar observed what appeared to be a vigorous and threatening government attempt to silence him.
• Lazar “knew” about Element 115 long before it was ever synthesized.
• And finally the absolute best, Lazar knew about the Wednesday night tests, and showed others.

The posters bring up some damn good points. How IS one to explain all these without there being a hidden saucer facility at Papoose Lake? Well, it turns out there is a very good reason all these things probably did, in fact, happen, and why Lazar still holds to his nonsensical story. Spoiler: It’s about saving his ass.

Link

Those are some excerpts, but you really need to read the whole thing to get the complete picture. If this is what has been sighted at Area 51 in testing, it makes sense that eventually they would have to test it in a real world situation. Such as an encounter with an actual aircraft, like the pilots encounter with the Tic-Tac. It makes sense that people would come and confiscate the tapes the next day as well. You'd definitely want a record of the reactions to something like this if you were testing it.

When taken into consideration with what I'm going to put in the next post, this may be a valid explanation for Bob Lazars Area 51 tale and some of the recently released military encounters.

Plasma Based Radar Spoofing

The way it works is like this. When directed toward the sky, a properly tuned proton beam, focused by magnetic lenses, would pass through the first few thousand meters of air with no apparent effect. If the energy levels are adjusted right, the beam itself wouldn’t be visible. Then, when the energy of the beam dropped to a critical value, it would dump its remaining energy in a very short distance, ionizing the oxygen and nitrogen atoms of the atmosphere, causing one damn fine glowing ball of plasma.

Assuming a circular beam aperture, the plasma would also take on a circular shape. Viewed from the side, the plasma would have a lenticular cross-section, and possibly even a different color from the bottom to the top due to the energy gradient of the dying beam (Remember Mark Farmer’s description? Very much like a spectral distribution). In short, it would look just like a glowing saucer. The beam could quickly be moved laterally, giving the plasma the appearance of instantly moving across the sky, much as a searchlight can jump “instantly” across the bottom of a cloud.

A device based upon this principle would make a really exquisite radar spoofing tool. The ionized plasma would give a good radar return, giving targeting radars something else to lock on to, instead of incoming aircraft. The ability to project an object of apparent solidity to enemy radar, instantly manipulatable, would be a most valuable little toy to have in your bag of tricks. As an added bonus, the plasma might even have significant emissions in the IR bands, as a decoy for heat seeking missiles. With enough engineering, it might be possible to reduce the size of the particle accelerator/generator to something small enough to fit on an aircraft (although that’s hard to imagine). The energy requirements would still be quite large, but great advances have been made in the short-term generation of power through chemical means (i.e., airborne lasers).

Link

Lazar's story is that he saw the craft, climbed into the craft, and worked on one of the gravity generators they had torn out of the craft. He said there were nine craft total and described the inside as "molded" as if it came from a 3D printer. Now if you are one of those people who does not buy the Lazar story, fine. I get that. I've made the same arguments in the past. But on point for this idea of a radar spoofing system, it really does not make sense.

One interesting issue that I only recently understood is that the craft was not a recovered crash. It was intact. They found it. That puts a whole new spin on the idea of a barn find. That is corroborated by the recent leak of the Wilson Memo as well. These guys are attempting to reverse engineer a working craft, not piece together wreckage. That kind of boggles the mind of where and how they found thee things.

a reply to: schuyler

That Lazar worked on a particle accelerator at Los Alamos give this credence in my opinion. Personally I think this makes more sense than Lazars story, which is full of holes regarding his past and employment.

As a final little consideration, there’s Lazar. What did he work on at Los Alamos (as a tech!), but a particle accelerator! Roll this scenario around in your mind, Mulder…..He gets hired on at Groom on a VERY limited basis to do minor servicing to the accelerator. He becomes aware of its purpose, and eventually asks his buddies if they want to go out and watch “flying saucers”. They do, and eventually get busted. At this point Lazar would be in seriously deep # and could go to jail for divulging classified info. BUT, as long and he stays with the stupid saucer story, he’s safe. It could even have been done at the AF’s direction as damage control. If Lazar opens his mouth, he not only risks jail, but he loses his celebrity and his friends realize they’ve been played for fools all this time.

As seen in this video


the particles would spread out so wide after leaving the lens, it would be ineffective.
I think Lazar was/is on the right track.

a reply to: underwerks

pretty sure, the ufo community didn't like that explanation. because it has nothing to do with aliens. maybe its that simple. there is no contact and never was. there are no aliens around. would be sad but more plausible then most of the millions of the stories out there. why they spending billions of dollars to search life on mars for example? why the military never tried to shoot down one of these tic tacs? i want to believe too but there is no evidence aliens visiting earth. thats a fact.

I think your theory could hold a little weight, at least in your explanation of what bob and friends witnessed. Plasma discharging could account for some of what they saw, but not all.

In reference to the tictac being the same, no, I dont think so. It was witnessed as a physical object, certainly not something plasmatic. The theory you pose would maybe work for the false radar returns and unexplained speed of the tictac, but I think too much was described for It to be advanced Plasma mechanics.

a reply to: oloufo

I still believe there are genuine possibly-alien UFOs flying around. I'm just not sure about Lazars story and the new crop of "disclosure". This theory would seem to cover almost all the bases on it.

There are real definitely weird things out there. I think by focusing on the fake stories we want to believe, we're doing the search for truth a disservice.

originally posted by: Catch_a_Fire
I think your theory could hold a little weight, at least in your explanation of what bob and friends witnessed. Plasma discharging could account for some of what they saw, but not all.

In reference to the tictac being the same, no, I dont think so. It was witnessed as a physical object, certainly not something plasmatic. The theory you pose would maybe work for the false radar returns and unexplained speed of the tictac, but I think too much was described for It to be advanced Plasma mechanics.

Here's a link about physical plasma holograms. It's not hard to imagine that maybe the military has a more advanced version of this. Maybe to the point where they could put any image they want into the air.

Link

I very well may be wrong about all this. I just thought it's an interesting theory.

originally posted by: schuyler


One interesting issue that I only recently understood is that the craft was not a recovered crash. That kind of boggles the mind of where and how they found thee things.

As always with this subject until we can publicly lay hands on, its all he said she said,...for what its worth I have had operators tell me they tried to bring down everything in the sky with microwaves,.. 1 spoke of it like he was very sure the goverment had probably brought atleast a couple down intact since the mid 40's with microwaves.

Anyways my .2 cents,....chew on it as food for thought or dismiss it, you choose.

a reply to: underwerks

I completely agree, it is an interesting theory, i can honestly see it working (to a degree), in the manner you say.

Holograms have also developed amazingly lately and being used in conjunction with advanced plasma discharge, would be very effective.

Youve posed a very interesting idea as its possible some sightings have been a misidentification of these tests taking place, but to fool a whole navy fleet, without a single glitch giving it away is beyond imagination. The chinese are leaps and bounds ahead of the hologram field at the moment, but even they struggle when it comes to bringing physicallity to the hologram.

If the US has tech like this and can use it as you theorize already........ Then god help the enemy 👍

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire

Uhh yearh wow.. Holograms in the sky... How spooky.

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire

Here's an interesting 2nd hand story from the link above, so take it for what its worth:

I don’t KNOW for a fact if proton beams were running rampant in the skies over Groom, but I personally find it highly likely. I had a discussion with an individual, to whom I attach some credibility, regarding this subject. He told me that “…there were no saucers at Area 51”, but there was a particle beam. He said he had seen it, and it was in a covered, trench-like facility whose roof slid away when the beam was to be fired. He also said “they” didn’t want anything in the air for miles around when it was run. Sounds like “they” knew what they were doing.

And something I thought was interesting:

With enough engineering, it might be possible to reduce the size of the particle accelerator/generator to something small enough to fit on an aircraft (although that’s hard to imagine). The energy requirements would still be quite large, but great advances have been made in the short-term generation of power through chemical means (i.e., airborne lasers).

This type of technology would require large amounts of energy. What could supply that energy? Why not a nuclear submarine..

Which makes it interesting that a submerged object was seen churning under the surface at the same time as the Tic Tac encounter..

Just something to think about.

The Tic-Tac UAP was then observed to be hovering with erratic motion over the churning water. An encounter with the Tic-Tac UAP ensued. After the encounter the submerged object was no longer present. It was never determined what this object was (Powell et al., 2019). Clearly, the UAP was interested in the submerged object. It is possible that this object and others like it are the reason that the UAPs were in the area.

Link

Next I expect Lazar to join up with TTSA Tom Del, Zondo, Knapp, C2C and the rest of the cheezy crowd.

Maybe he has already. The whole UFO genera is a hot mess; primarily a platform to just market books, Tshirts, goofy films, and all sorts of products.

Capitalism in action and precious little actual investigation.

a reply to: schuyler

rings like a "Flight of the navigator" thing. If you remember that one.

a reply to: underwerks

so this tool could also spoof pilots eyes ? And vanish and appear 60 miles further in a second or two ?

originally posted by: olaru12
Next I expect Lazar to join up with TTSA Tom Del, Zondo, Knapp, C2C and the rest of the cheezy crowd.

Maybe he has already. The whole UFO genera is a hot mess; primarily a platform to just sell books, Tshirts, goofy films, and all sorts of products.

Capitalism in action and precious little actual investigation.

Indeed it is. Still...the truth underneath all that is what's it all about really. And there is a truth.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: underwerks

so this tool could also spoof pilots eyes ? And vanish and appear 60 miles further in a second or two ?

If it was an advanced physical plasma hologram, yes. Theoretically it could be made to resemble anything they want. It would look solid to the eye and also give a radar return. And it would be visible in IR.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly

originally posted by: olaru12
Next I expect Lazar to join up with TTSA Tom Del, Zondo, Knapp, C2C and the rest of the cheezy crowd.

Maybe he has already. The whole UFO genera is a hot mess; primarily a platform to just sell books, Tshirts, goofy films, and all sorts of products.

Capitalism in action and precious little actual investigation.

Indeed it is. Still...the truth underneath all that is what's it all about really. And there is a truth.

Indeed there is. I have personally witnessed and experienced high strangeness, but it's to subjective and difficult to describe.

a reply to: underwerks

I thought you didnt believe holo planes went into towers theory