Transgender children SHOULD undergo irreversible surgery without their parents' permission

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: InTheLight

Look at my addition to my last post. I knew something was wrong here.

LOL!!! And I thought something was right here...

However, their rebuttal --

..."The claim that the APS has proposed children under 16 should be allowed to consent to surgery against the wishes of their parents, and without mandatory counselling, is simplistic, inaccurate and damaging to transgender young people, their families and the psychologists who work with them...

There are a few too many qualifiers and weasel words in there for me to trust that they mean what I want them to mean.

For now, it's all just words. No such policy has been put in place, so we don't know what that would actually look like yet. But they have every opportunity to fill us in, rather than scold and lecture. If a misunderstanding has taken place, then it is up to them to clarify and specify. How exactly is it "simplistic"? How exactly is it "inaccurate."

At the end of the day, no psychologist can make the final assessment . But what you still may find disturbing is that the minor's rights to have access to medical opinion and guidance including psychologists within the law will be upheld. Read their latest statement...

www.psychology.org.au...

a reply to: InTheLight

At the end of the day, no psychologist can make the final assessment .

And now we're right again!

I totally agree. No psychologist can make the final assessment. No psychologist is qualified to make such an assessment. At most, a psychologist knows what the patient tells them.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

At the end of the day, no psychologist can make the final assessment .

And now we're right again!

I totally agree. No psychologist can make the final assessment. No psychologist is qualified to make such an assessment. At most, a psychologist knows what the patient tells them.

I have to agree with you there, especially in the case of gender dysphoria, which IMO the science is still in it's infancy, medically and psychologically speaking.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

As far as i am concerned, if the state is going to take away a parent's right to parent their child and make decisions for them under 16, then there should be no responsibility on the parent's behalf.

If the state wants to take on that role, then they take on the cost and responsibility of doing so.

originally posted by: Hecate666
What on Earth do you mean by 'well informed' doctors should be able to?
You mean if there is a child who believes truly to be of the opposite gender inside after rigorous testing should be able to get an OP?

Children do not get surgery. Young prepubescent transgender kids do not have any medical intervention except counseling, watching and waiting. In some cases, a few will socially transition which in study after study improves the well being of the child.

Mental Health and Self-Worth in Socially Transitioned Transgender Youth
Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities
Trans kids massively benefit from being allowed to socially transition
Allowing Transgender Youth To Transition Improves Their Mental Health, Study Finds

Some transgender kids, usually the ones that have socially transitioned and been under evaluation and in counseling along with their parents and siblings for years by a multidisciplinary team of medical professionals have the option to go on puberty blockers. In fact, they beg for them to prevent the development of their natal secondary sex characteristics which can be deeply distressing and lead to self harm and suicidal ideation. Not all trans kids even want medical intervention.

Nobody is forcing these drugs or surgeries on anyone. Treatment with GnRH analogues costs between $15,000 and $20,000 per year and is rarely covered by insurance. Endocrine Society and WPATH guidelines recommend puberty blockers shouldn’t be prescribed until a child has reached Tanner stage 2 or 3 of pubertal development.

It has been shown that transgender kids are not confused about who they are and are just as sure about their gender as non-transgender kids.

Transgender Kids Show Consistent Gender Identity Across Measures
Young Trans Children Know Who They Are

If you have a transgender daughter that has been living and fully integrated into the world as a girl since say the 3rd or 4th grade (or earlier) that starts on blockers at puberty and cross sex hormones a few years later, I personally don’t have a problem if they want to have sex change surgery at 17 or 18. It would be inhumane to make them wait longer and be a serious detriment to leading any sort of normal life.

Here’s a girl like that from a year ago. She just had surgery at 17 before her last year of high school and chronicled the experience on her YouTube channel. Watch for a minute and tell me if you had a kid like this, you wouldn’t do everything to help them have a normal life. (I have a better video but can’t get it to work)

Why can't a child who really really wants a full back tattoo with a skull on a motorbike can have it?

You are making a false equivalence. Wanting a tattoo is not a diagnosable medical condition with decades and decades of research and study behind it so I kind of think your argument is “totally invalid”. I understand having concerns. I have my own

Don’t assume everything about me. I am not for the medicalization of all or even most transgender kids. What I am for is having the options for those that are severely gender dysphoric and it is a true medical need for their health, happiness and well being to not be denied care.

a reply to: InTheLight

I have to agree with you there, especially in the case of gender dysphoria, which IMO the science is still in it's infancy, medically and psychologically speaking.

Perhaps these psychologists should spend more time and energy perfecting their own craft, especially in terms of their understanding the primary and underlying psychological conditions, and improving their treatment programs and protocols accordingly. Actually, no "perhaps" about it. The more I think about it, the more of a copout this is on their part, schlubbing their patients off to the medical community.

Of course, the more cynical side of me considers that it might just be their business plan. Why cure a patient when you can break the patient (or have someone else do the dirty work) and guarantee a patient for life???

a reply to: discordantone

If the state wants to take on that role, then they take on the cost and responsibility of doing so.

That may just be their plan. And it makes this all that much more sinister.

a reply to: Boadicea

That's right, as long as people obeyed the law.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

I have to agree with you there, especially in the case of gender dysphoria, which IMO the science is still in it's infancy, medically and psychologically speaking.

Perhaps these psychologists should spend more time and energy perfecting their own craft, especially in terms of their understanding the primary and underlying psychological conditions, and improving their treatment programs and protocols accordingly. Actually, no "perhaps" about it. The more I think about it, the more of a copout this is on their part, schlubbing their patients off to the medical community.

Of course, the more cynical side of me considers that it might just be their business plan. Why cure a patient when you can break the patient (or have someone else do the dirty work) and guarantee a patient for life???

I supposed these medical professionals are trying to deal with the fact that their patients will most likely try (and succeed) to commit suicide if they do nothing. But, I agree, specifically in spending more time studying societal intolerance, hate and violence in regards to transgendered people and how to help those navigate in those waters.

a reply to: Kalamitous

Well, life's not fair. If a transgender lives in a transgender community, (s)he'll be treated like normal.

When you're not like everyone else, expect to be treated like it. I had to go catch a recording of a man running for Sheriff because he was lying about the company I work for. Turns out, his speech was being held at an NAACP conference in Shreveport and since I'm white, everyone looked at me like I was crazy when I walked in and sat down. I knew it was coming, did I piss and moan about it? Nah, I did what I had to do.

These are parts of life we all go through at one point or another, being different than all of those around us. We can either be strong about it and understand that equal treatment isn't reality, or we can be weak and break down and cry about it.

a reply to: Boadicea

There are MODS on ATS who take offence at any 'trans' or 'gay' thread, so, I won't be surprised to see this thread closed down when things heat up, plus you will get cry babies messaging the MOD's to have it closed down. Something about these threads that the MOD's don't like and so they stick up for the LGBTQ community!

Just saying.

As for the OP itself... very disturbing and something needs to be done to stop it. Like my signature says.

i wonder when western society is going to be finally pushed over the edge from all these laws that keep being implemented to restrict parental influence over their children, liberalism is starting to become destructive to western society. but people wont notice until chaos engulfs our countries unfortunately.

the ability to adopt social changes effectively is a big part of what has made western society so strong the past few hundred years but we've been taking it too far the last twenty or so years.

originally posted by: MykeNukem
Psychology is Pseudoscience,

I'd always distinguished psychologists from psychiatrists, the latter being the evil ones.

I no longer see a difference.

There is a place for the study of the human psyche... but its place is not one whose opinions should ever be given the force of law.

a reply to: InTheLight

I supposed these medical professionals are trying to deal with the fact that their patients will most likely try (and succeed) to commit suicide if they do nothing.

Maybe... maybe not.

But, I agree, specifically in spending more time studying societal intolerance, hate and violence in regards to transgendered people and how to help those navigate in those waters.

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I think we desperately need this anyway! For everyone -- not just transgender people -- to learn to deal with all manners of criticism, intolerance and other bullying. It would also benefit transgender people both before and after transitioning -- if they choose to do so. It's not like suddenly the whole world is going to accept them in their new persona and shower them with love and warm fuzzies.

We all need these coping skills, because some people suck.

originally posted by: CrazeeWorld777
a reply to: Boadicea

There are MODS on ATS who take offence at any 'trans' or 'gay' thread, so, I won't be surprised to see this thread closed down when things heat up, plus you will get cry babies messaging the MOD's to have it closed down.

Hmmmm... that hasn't been my experience. In fact, I have very much appreciated our mods for NOT succumbing to the Trans Agenda bullying and silencing, and for allowing such wide discussion about the issues. I think our mods have been pretty darn awesome.

As for the OP itself... very disturbing and something needs to be done to stop it. Like my signature says.

Well, knowledge is power. Too much harm has already been done under stealth. Just bringing public attention to it in the bright light of day is a good start. Can't fight what we don't know.

originally posted by: namehere
the ability to adopt social changes effectively is a big part of what has made western society so strong the past few hundred years but we've been taking it too far the last twenty or so years.

In some ways, we are actually regressing where we once made progress!

All of this snuck up on me. I thought we'd gotten past ridiculous sexist stereotypes and the "pink brain" type thinking. Today, gender affirmation is the most sexist and stereotypical thinking of all.

It boggles my mind.

originally posted by: sooth
This is the fanatical left's gay conversion camp. They've become so ideologically blinded that they cannot even recognize when they are hurting children. It is only about true belief in their dogma and any search for the truth stops at that and they never bother building an epistemological foundation based on evidence and reason to support it. All they need is the faith that what they believe is right even when the rest of the sane world can clearly see how utterly wrong it is.

It only takes one generation to weed them out because they won't reproduce. That's never included in their agenda though because they never think that far ahead.

a reply to: CynConcepts

is simplistic, inaccurate and damaging to transgender young people, their families and the psychologists who work with them.

Remember when the country wasn't afraid to say that anyone who is in need of a psychologist is mental?

originally posted by: LSU2018
Well, life's not fair. If a transgender lives in a transgender community, (s)he'll be treated like normal.

I'm not really sure what this has to do with what I've posted? Did you watch a minute of the video I shared with the young transgender girl? Do you really think she has any problem fitting in and not being treated like a normal girl or that she's not popular at school and has a lot of friends? I think she's pretty darn cute myself, is in a loving home with an awesome mom and dad, is headed to college once she graduates high school in the spring and it isn't hard to imagine her married with a family one day. I'd be hella stoked to have a granddaughter as smart, as together and with as much potential as she has.

I think the mental vision you have of transgender people might be a little skewed and chances are you've met a transgender person and not even known it especially if it was someone that transitioned young and particularly if they had their natal puberty suppressed. Would you have known the girl in the video was trans if you weren't told?

I also kind of think suggesting that trans people be segregated into their own community is, is... something but I can't think of the right word for it. Are there any other groups you think should live in their own special community?

a reply to: Boadicea

They did close my threads down because they were gaining too much attention and people were agreeing with me and the truth I was talking about in the thread.