Australia playing America.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: CthruU

Australia with a population about the same size of a large US city doesn’t have the benefit of the money and the resources the US has, we don’t have such great trade with the US either.

The largest US city isn't even half the population of Australia. So perhaps saying Australia has about the same population as say Florida, would be a far more accurate comparison.

But to the OP, its just mindbogglingly idiotic to assert that Australia would side with China over the US if it came to military conflict... so I'm just going to assume that you have more sense than that and are just trolling.

Please, i never said Australia would side with China but rather that Australia could and should do more, furthermore saying i smelled a turncoat is about Australias partial support instead of unconditional support, this partial support may be satisfactory in peaceful happy days but when push (and theres plenty of pushin) comes to shove partiality just won't cut it.
Remember greed and the dollar - 99% of the time in human nature always disgustingly trumps the right thing, humanity has a complete history of this fact.

Remember one thing - Australias strategic global position is very desirable to northen countries in the event of the worst case scenario.

Money talks bull$#!+ walks. Another proven fact of humanities history. It would be " mindbogglingly idiotic" to ignore this trait.

a reply to: CthruU

What are you suggesting here exactly?

It looks like from your op you expect Australia to join the U.S in a trade war with China , that's a bad proposition for our already struggling economy and this us verses them mentality is destructive for a global economy.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: CthruU

What are you suggesting here exactly?

It looks like from your op you expect Australia to join the U.S in a trade war with China , that's a bad proposition for our already struggling economy and this us verses them mentality is destructive for a global economy.

If your economy is struggling so much, why is your prime minister giving $150 MILLION to NASA??????? How many homless or similiar could benefit from that kind of $.

"Global economy" ??????? No such thing in reality.

If you want to see a real "us versus them mentality" look anywhere at all, hell just look at politicians, or even worse just look at statistics on neighbors behavior towards each other in same neighborhoods let alone opposing countries.

a reply to: CthruU

Australia would join and fight with the US no matter what. Now Australia, as a lot have said, does major trading with China and others. The economy is sluggish and there would be no way Australia could join a trade war against China and survive economically. Living here in Australia for 7 years now I can say without a doubt if you were to say that kind of stuff down at the pub you would have been eating floor.

originally posted by: CthruU

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: CthruU

What are you suggesting here exactly?

It looks like from your op you expect Australia to join the U.S in a trade war with China , that's a bad proposition for our already struggling economy and this us verses them mentality is destructive for a global economy.

If your economy is struggling so much, why is your prime minister giving $150 MILLION to NASA??????? How many homless or similiar could benefit from that kind of $.

"Global economy" ??????? No such thing in reality.

If you want to see a real "us versus them mentality" look anywhere at all, hell just look at politicians, or even worse just look at statistics on neighbors behavior towards each other in same neighborhoods let alone opposing countries.

What does that even mean ?

Are you on drugs or something...

a reply to: 1Angrylightbulb

More like licking it as he would have already swallowed his teeth.

a reply to: CthruU

Aussies have the right to pick sides or be neutral. Technically US is suppose to freaking ally China not go against each other after WW2. Everyone would be so freaking happy. The rich corrupt and people with multiple agendas attempting to take over the world are using America/fake democracy. This is why everyone hates America now. Don't trade with China your screwed. No defence tech from America equally screwed. Only if the media stops fking lying and MIC gets shutdown by real American civilians maybe things will start changing. Japan is just a big excuse to go to war with China since Sino-Jap war. You can't drop one or the other. China knows what its doing with civilian sector. US is only going for military sector and completely abandoned public laws. Corrupt as hell.

originally posted by: CthruU
(at least at face value)

Australian prime minister Scott Morrison is now attending Trumps state invitation to discuss all things allied.

Problem i have with this supposed solid alliance between American and Australia is this - Scott Morrison has completely and repeatably defended Australias trade relationship with China whilst at times propositioning trump to reconsider tariff relief. Morrison also shys away from most of the talk around retribution.
For me this is not key allied behaviour, despite sending pitiful help when requested in relation to deployments, rather it's convenience.

Ok so Australia trying to keep a balanced status between it's biggest trade partner and it's biggest ally is not the behavior of a key ally? Really? That coming from an American, the country which picks and chooses when it will take action based on it's interests? It's interests which have for decades revolved around energy corporations? Wow.

So, let me give you an example, and you tell me how good of an ally the United States is.
In the South China Sea, the USA is opposed to China taking full control because it violates international laws and China has no legal basis for it's claims. It is using brute strength against smaller countries to do what it wants. Fair enough, we are good so far, the USA is acting the right way.

Now lets look at the Aegean Sea & the Eastern Mediterranean.
Turkey has for over three decades being violating the airspace & maritime boundaries of NATO & EU member Greece. What has the United States done about this? Not a #ing thing. Why? Because the United States placed more importance on bases in Turkey used for the Middle East theatre then it did on enforcing INTERNATIONAL #ING LAW OF THE #ING SEA, among other things.

In Cyprus, the United States & other western powers gave Turkey the green light to invade in 1974 and divide the island because they essentially didn't trust Makarios. In the lead up to the invasion, the British working with the Turks instigated false flag attacks on the Turkish Cypriots and blamed it on the Greek Cypriots, to justify the inter-communal violence that followed and so on.
There are UN Security Council resolutions which require Turkey to pull it's invasion army & current occupying forces out of the island. Why hasn't the United States enforced these resolutions? Saddam Hussein violated UN Security Council resolutions and Iraq was bombed and then invaded.
Turkey has violated the Geneva Convention many many times in Cyprus. Why hasn't anything been done?

Because it's not in the interests of the United States.

So spare us the crocodile tears now that Australia isn't behaving like a key ally of the United States.
We place great importance on the alliance with the United States. But if your governments are too stupid to properly engage Australia and the rest of the region, to avoid a clash between two super powers, then don't expect us to explicitly pick a side.

As for what Australia deploys, Australia deploys quite a considerable amount of expertise and fire power.
See rednecks like you equate hundreds of thousands of soldiers as being all powerful.
In reality, people with at least half a functioning brain realize that that is not the be all and end all and answer to everything.

Go speak to your own special forces units and ask them about Australia's SAS and Commando regiments. You might understand then that Australia pulls it's weight well beyond what it should in wars that have nothing to do with Australia, but Australia is there because America is there and has asked for assistance & support.

Australia needs to make a stand and stop sitting on the fence trying to play both sides for a double edged advantage - Chinas trade, Americas defence.

America needs to stop being hypocritical. Your interests do not supercede anyone else's interests.
An alliance is not one country dictating to others, it is countries working together for a common goal. You (as in you, not your country) don't seem to comprehend how an alliance works.

So what would Australia do if the SHTF and missles started flying ? Whilst China, Russia, etc joined forces and started laying down demands.
What's more important to Australia - Free trade or Free will.

Settle down Rambo.
If a war started in the Asia-Pacific region, OUR REGION OF THE WORLD NOT YOURS, we would be among the first to respond. Because it is our region of the world and it directly affects us.

You seem to be oblivious to the fact that out of the few countries deployed to the Middle East, Australia is one of them, since the War on Terror started. You seem to be oblivious that Australia is one of the few countries in the world that is participating with the USN and on it's own in freedom of navigation patrols in the South China Sea and has maritime surveillance aircraft flying through the region too.

You probably also don't know that in Afghanistan, there were quite a few occasions when American soldiers got in over their heads and it was Australian commandos & sas who came and saved their asses.

But hey, you sit on ATS and throw # around about # you don't know nothing about.

www.aph.gov.au...>CIB9697

America needs to really pick it's friends a bit better as who really knows if Australia would unconditionally have Americas back (which is what would be demanded/expected) - i have my doubts, i think Australia smells like turncoat material which is both very sad for its future communist outlook and for Americas reliance on it's allies when the need is really prevelant.

You mean have your back like we've have had since WW1 fighting side by side with Western nations?
I think after the United States abandoned the Kurds in Syria, the rest of the Western alliance should be questioning if America will have their backs if # hits the fan.

With current times marching strongly towards serious conflict i for one expect more from our top allies and am not seeing it, it makes me mad, uncertain, perhaps even minutely concerned for free will in the not to distant future.

Well thankfully nobody really gives a # what you think or what you think you see, because what you don't see is reality and your entire post confirms this fact.

Australia you infact are not playing the game the Number one ticket holders (USA) way, this is not helpful or desirable or sustainable in the long term.

Ah, there we have it, the arrogance finally shows it self well and truly. He took an entire post of talking # and in the end he couldn't help him self.

See, that's the problem, like I said above. You don't comprehend how an alliance works.

So if Australia tells China to f' off, and sides explicitly and 1000% with America, will America make up the trade imbalance?
Will America send economic & humanitarian aid to Australia until Australia's economy recovers?
No? Then go jump off the Golden Gate bridge idiot.

The free world is in trouble. Real trouble.

It sure is. And it is explicitly because of your former presidents from at least the 1990's who are to blame for it with a foreign policy of double standards & hypocrisy & social engineering programs/policies. It's also your countries corporate greed that has allowed China to grow into the problem it is today.

originally posted by: CthruU
(at least at face value)

Australian prime minister Scott Morrison is now attending Trumps state invitation to discuss all things allied.

Problem i have with this supposed solid alliance between American and Australia is this - Scott Morrison has completely and repeatably defended Australias trade relationship with China whilst at times propositioning trump to reconsider tariff relief. Morrison also shys away from most of the talk around retribution.
For me this is not key allied behaviour, despite sending pitiful help when requested in relation to deployments, rather it's convenience.

Australia needs to make a stand and stop sitting on the fence trying to play both sides for a double edged advantage - Chinas trade, Americas defence.

So what would Australia do if the SHTF and missles started flying ? Whilst China, Russia, etc joined forces and started laying down demands.
What's more important to Australia - Free trade or Free will.

www.aph.gov.au...>CIB9697

America needs to really pick it's friends a bit better as who really knows if Australia would unconditionally have Americas back (which is what would be demanded/expected) - i have my doubts, i think Australia smells like turncoat material which is both very sad for its future communist outlook and for Americas reliance on it's allies when the need is really prevelant.

With current times marching strongly towards serious conflict i for one expect more from our top allies and am not seeing it, it makes me mad, uncertain, perhaps even minutely concerned for free will in the not to distant future.

So wake up Australia - unfortunately you can't play both sides of the court, pick a side - stick to it and stop using the USA to defend your backside.

Australia you infact are not playing the game the Number one ticket holders (USA) way, this is not helpful or desirable or sustainable in the long term.

The free world is in trouble. Real trouble.

Your OP does not take into consideration the fact that Australia has had America's back in every single conflict there ever was.

Posturing over trade deals is peanuts compared to war.

And your assessment of the times as "With current times marching strongly towards serious conflict" I cannot take you serious. Stop watching the news so much. They sensationalize every tidbit of information they get. There is no crisis leading to war with the USA for any country outside of Iran. And that would not be worthy of being called a war, as it would be a two day skirmish.

a reply to: mortex

OMG! This was an amazing post.
I don't agree with 100% of the things you said, but I do agree with the tone.

I am a proud American who is also proud of our Australian brothers and sisters.
I hope the fires don't irreversibly damage the image of your country.