The United Kingdom doesn’t exist.

It is essential to the whole debate that it is fully understood that to have a 2nd referendum, and for it to be democratic, the first result has to be honoured and delivered, which it hasn't, because we haven't left the EU yet. If the remainers that have impeded and frustrated the delivery of the first result actually accepted it in the first place, the whole thing could have been done with, and remainers could then have set about seeking to bring about another referendum.

It is a particular group of Remainers who do not want the first result honoured because of the loss of both privilege and personal finance. They are not blocking the process for ordinary people who voted to remain, they are doing it for themselves, to safeguard their own benefits. Oh yes, they'll give the impression that they are fighting the remain corner, and they will happily take all the whinging from ordinary remainers as support for their own arguments. These remainers do not care for the democratic process, they only want to serve one interest, and that is 'self'. You do not allow that to happen!!!

What part of 'the EU is not democratic' do remainers not understand? Why do remainers want to hand Britain over to the unelected and unaccountable EU? Why do they want to sell and betray Britain into the hands of the EU? If you want to do that you cannot be English, because no Englishman would ever betray or allow the betrayal of their country. If the Scots and the Irish want to separate, then let them go, if the Welsh want to do so, then let them go. I believe eventually they will want to come back and re-amalgamate the UK again. It will take decades and it will take a lot of economic pain. We are stronger together and united, but it is something you have to let them find out for themselves (I suspect they already know).

As for the EU...# 'em! We should be able to trade with any European country without having to hand over an ounce of sovereignty or self-determination, or to dilute our English culture and our English way of life. Without having had Britain tethered to them the EU would not be as strong as it is today...that is, strong in all the wrong ways. We will never all sit around a campfire and sing Kum bah Yah, our cultures and mindsets are entirely different, we can visit each other, but we don't have the stomach to actually live with each other, and to be honest, I doubt any of us would want to.

Those who voted to leave did so out of irreconcilable differences in ideology, we see what the EU is, and we rejected it, and will continue to do so. If we allow dickheads to hand Britain's sovereignty over to the dictatorship that is the EU, what need is there for monarchy, that would have to be dissolved?

Britain is for the British, and I do mean the real British, the English, the Welsh, the Scots, and the Northern Irish (until Ireland is allowed to fully repatriate some time in the future). It is not for the EU!!!

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
A few things....

Firstly yes the UK voted to leave the EU but what that actually means is very ambiguous, you can leave the EU and still be part of the ECC for example.

Yes a deal was always part of the plan, you can reading on the VoteLeave owns website who said there would be a UK/EU treaty in place.

The vote was never legally binding.

Its astounding that Leavers say its undemocratic to ask for a second referendum to settle this issue yet have no issue with the proroguing of parliament. You see yes there was going to be a recess but the plan was to vote to cancel this recess to keep the current session running to find a way through this impass but Boris has robbed parliament of this opportunity. When the speaker is calling it a democratic outrage then you know there is a problem.

Both sides have a lot to answer for, I am fed up of one side blaming the other the truth is this is what happens when you use direct democracy to direct a parliamentary democracy it doesn't work. Lets stop pretending its "undemocratic" to block no-deal because no-deal will be economically devastating or this country.

It is entirely undemocratic to block a no deal.
Parliament's and the Govt's #1 job is to leave the EU and ensure the country is prepared with the best deal possible - including no deal if the EU are not prepared to give us a deal.
It's really simple. The group that are trying to stop the Govt from leaving the EU (pretending it's about no deal and removing a major bargaining chip of this Govt in the negotiations), are traitors to this country. They can lie to themseleves that they are not, but they're not fooling anyone.

You see the one thing these people have NEVER articulated is HOW we leave on the 31st Oct (or the 31st March already gone for that matter). They have no answers to that and that is JUST how they like it. Stall, pretend the sky is going to fall and carry on the delay until staying in the EU is the outcome. They may not realise it, but they are wholly transparent.

a reply to: elysiumfire

This is all just part of a larger worldwide operation to not only shape the narrative that globalism necessitates the removal of sovereignty.. As well as work towards implementing that system.

Part of the method for achieving that is done by cutting off successful nations at the knees to bring "world equality" and solve "wealth inequality." Im not sure its occurred to these folks they could instead bring less successful nations up, since that flirts dangerously close to empowering the average person.

I quite agree,Serdgiam, you expound on it quite succinctly, and eloquently, and I am quite aware of the globalist goal. It is not for the benefit of the ordinary man or woman, and I wish they could all see that, every man and woman. We are being made into cogs of their machine to serve their needs and egos.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Flavian

There is no legal obligation for them to abide by the vote.

So why have a vote? What was the object of spending £129 plus million to

hold a referendum which was not going to be legal and didn't have any objective?

A senseless waste of money.

There is a legal obligation to leave on the 31st of October but there isn't anything legal that says they can't just revoke article 50, remain in the EU and totally ignore the vote.

All pointless..... why bother..... if nothing can be held to account.

Yes they said that they would respect the vote but its only words, there was never any legal obligation to adhere to the vote.

Only words? what a waste of £129 plus millions .......

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird

Oh ya, democracy not working. That's sad, but then again, it never worked for the Greeks either, and they invented it.

But anyways, so much drama over nothing. The worst news to come out of that little island across the pond in the past 50 years is the spice girls break up. The world, lived through that much bigger catastrophe, and pretty sure will live through this as well.

It did work for the Greeks, they let the spartans rule in their own way and the Athenians ruled in their own way , because they knew fair well that the Athenians and the Spartans were two different cultures united by diplomacy.
Spartans were warrior like and always waged war, where as the Athenians were more diplomatic and philosophical and thats why they created city states and the republic.

However the UK doesnt have any city states, accept for London, but London wants to control the rest of the Uk like we are its porperty
and not our own individual city state with our own rules
and there is no republic when we have a monarch.

End it now , and give us our city states with devolved power and a republic!

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Flavian

Yes but the point am making is a factual one, there is no legal obligation to adhere to the advisory vote.

Am not arguing about what we should and should not be doing just clarifying the legal position.

Parliament decided to adhere to the result of the 'advisory' vote and overwhelmingly voted to trigger Article 50 based on that. This then makes it legal and forces mandate to proceed. There is no legal mandate to reverse Article 50 as the House has not voted on it.

They are unlikely to reverse the decision as they do not want to risk being the party that defied the decision as laid out by the people.

12/7/2019 Update

FYI: UK Selling off assets at a record pace: uk.finance.yahoo.com...

a reply to: Forensick

What is undemoractic about the vote is this. I live in Scotland and the and the nation of Scotland has voted to stay within European Sovereignty.

Give us democracy

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Forensick

What is undemoractic about the vote is this. I live in Scotland and the and the nation of Scotland has voted to stay within European Sovereignty.

Give us democracy

Scotland is part of the UK.
Whining about a region of the UK voting to stay in the EU is no more valid than saying London should leave the UK and stay in the EU. Stupid.
That's not how democracy works - you can't take your ball home if you lose.
If Scotland wanted to be independent they would have voted to leave the UK but they didn't.

a reply to: Forensick

They were only hoping you people were mind f$%#ed enough to vote
stay. Then they could blame you for staying later on. They never
dreamed you would vote to leave or Donald Trump would win.
You will never leave the union and you should've known that
even after the vote. As for Trump only by the grace of God
will he slay our dragon. Then again God is who I'd want n my
side.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Forensick

What is undemoractic about the vote is this. I live in Scotland and the and the nation of Scotland has voted to stay within European Sovereignty.

Give us democracy

You have democracy. You voted to stay in the UK in 2014 and all that this entails. The UK voted out.

We have a GE in a few days, and for the first time in my adult life I'm considering not voting. I don't see any point since the last vote we had years ago is still yet unfulfilled. It was the biggest ever turnout at the ballots - all ignored. It really is outrageous.

But now they've made it acceptable to ignore the majority.

Now it's acceptable how long will it be until they do it again - ya know, for 'the greater good', or 'in the best interests of the country', or similar such twaddle.

Personally, I can't see how taking 'no deal' off the negotiating table is in the best interests of any side - it just allows the 'talks' to go back and forth indefinitely, or until an agreement is reached. Have you ever heard of anyone or any company/business agree to enter negotiations that they will not be allowed to walk away from without a deal? Forced to do business? Negotiations that can potentially just drag on and on until you cave in? Why would anyone agree to that? It's preposterous.

Taking 'no-deal' off the table is a way for the traitors to force what they want by removing options that oppose them. It's blatant corruption.

We already had a deal with the EU for decades, if we wanted a deal we would/could have voted to remain. Leave doesn't mean 'keep everything the same but call it 'leave''.

Let's just leave and we can negotiate deals after we've left, if we want. The remainers can even campaign to re-join, if they want. Anything else is not democracy.

originally posted by: doobydoll
We have a GE in a few days, and for the first time in my adult life I'm considering not voting. I don't see any point since the last vote we had years ago is still yet unfulfilled. It was the biggest ever turnout at the ballots - all ignored. It really is outrageous.

But now they've made it acceptable to ignore the majority.

Now it's acceptable how long will it be until they do it again - ya know, for 'the greater good', or 'in the best interests of the country', or similar such twaddle.

Personally, I can't see how taking 'no deal' off the negotiating table is in the best interests of any side - it just allows the 'talks' to go back and forth indefinitely, or until an agreement is reached. Have you ever heard of anyone or any company/business agree to enter negotiations that they will not be allowed to walk away from without a deal? Forced to do business? Negotiations that can potentially just drag on and on until you cave in? Why would anyone agree to that? It's preposterous.

Taking 'no-deal' off the table is a way for the traitors to force what they want by removing options that oppose them. It's blatant corruption.

We already had a deal with the EU for decades, if we wanted a deal we would/could have voted to remain. Leave doesn't mean 'keep everything the same but call it 'leave''.

Let's just leave and we can negotiate deals after we've left, if we want. The remainers can even campaign to re-join, if they want. Anything else is not democracy.

Spot on. The whole deal/no deal narrative was crafted by traitors whose goal was to undermine democracy in this country in order to get what they wanted - to remain.

You will need to vote though - against the traitors.

The Conservatives are also a shower of #s, however they will abide by the People's Vote of 2016.
Moreover, NO DEAL (what we voted for) will be back on the table as a negotiation against the EU.
The current deal is only for the transition period - in which we'll be working out a trade deal.
If the EU try to play hard ball, we'll be able to just tell them "thanks, we'll go with WTO terms instead. Bye."

The people were lied to massively and continue to be lied to about the UK and the EU.

Why should I allow 17.2 million idiots who don't have one iota of common sense to see through the media and political lies tell me that I can no longer access free health care and free travel in and around Europe?

Why should 17.2 million xenophobic arsewipes forfeit my right to love and marry whoever I choose within the EU.

Why should 17.2 million racists scumbags limit the boundaries as to where I choose to work and live freely.

I don't want to hear the word "Democracy". The billionaire media barons attempt to control your will and decision making and once again 17.2 million weak-minded individuals allowed themselves to be manipulated and played like the little fiddles that they are.

Good morning everyone. Mon the Hoops.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The people were lied to massively and continue to be lied to about the UK and the EU.

The big lie about the EU, which did not seemed to be covered in the EU Referendum was why its future plans were never published or debated. The creeping federalisation and erosion of sovereignty have never been debated within the UK, nor within the EU proper.

At the very least the Referendum has flushed the worrying expansion of the EU under everyone's noses, and the disempowerment of the UK.

The EU needs to become more transparent about their blueprint for domination and the parallel dismemberment of the nation state. That's the lie, in that it's all hidden from view.

Seems to me that the obvious answer is to have a referendum in England only.
The question should be "Do you want England to secede from the United Kingdom?"

The reason is this, Scotland and NI want to remain in the EU and to greater or lesser degrees, to leave the UK as they don't like English rule.

Now, should the UK leave the EU, they'd have a long wait to join following their own independence votes.

Should England leave the UK, it would be out of the EU while the UK would remain and consist of the Celtic, pro EU nations.

I know Wales is a bit more complex, but plaid, their nationalist party is also pro EU, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

The reason is this, Scotland and NI want to remain in the EU and to greater or lesser degrees, to leave the UK as they don't like English rule.

Now ^^^^that^^^^ is the biggest laugh of all
Scotland and NI want their *independence* They dont like to be ruled

by Westminister

BUT

They are prepared to give up this independence to be ruled over by the EU

And they have the audacity to call 17.4 million leavers 'stupid'

You couldn't make it up. /SMH.

a reply to: eletheia
Yeah, I don't get that either.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Calling people who disagree with you xenophobic arsewipes, scumbags, racists, weak minded and idiots just suggests immature thinking. Stamp your feet and call names. You seem to imply that you are better than these people, and anyone who disagrees is obviously stupid. How very egotistical.

17.2 million people disagreed with what you believe. This was for a variety of reasons and I'm sure there were arseholes among them. There were also some extremely intelligent people who formed an opinion based on supposition and evidence you or I may not agree with. This does not make them wrong. Nor does it make us wrong.

This type of language only forces more division in an already divided state.

You don't want to hear the word democracy. Well unlucky. Just because we disagree with the result doesn't mean the people who voted that way are lesser beings.