Boris Johnson asks Queen to suspend Parliament

Nice quote from Rees-Mogg:

If the PM said Christmas Day was 25 December, Nicola Sturgeon would be outraged and shocked by that, so I wouldn’t worry too much about what the Scottish leader has to say.

a reply to: UKTruth

I am sure the EU will be just as nice to them...

Yeah, sometimes better to stay with the devil one knows; out of the frying pan into the fire, etc.

In such a case, the EU would act "nice" to them as long as the Eurocracy could use that to pressure England. I think this situation is what Ireland will experience soon. Once BREXIT is fact, the German and French elite will regard Ireland as simply another bunch of "island ... eh ... folks". Ireland already took heat on granting tax advantages; silly Irish didn't realize they did not have the same perks as Juncker ... but the Union schooled them quickly enough on that score.

Cheers

originally posted by: oldcarpy

Nice quote from Rees-Mogg:

If the PM said Christmas Day was 25 December, Nicola Sturgeon would be outraged and shocked by that, so I wouldn’t worry too much about what the Scottish leader has to say.

yes this is exactly what parliament do , they Ignore the First minister of Scotland who is meant to be in a union of equals

I was a Remainer and remain a huge fan of the EU but it needs pointing out to many that Remainers are not actually a thing anymore. That was only for the referendum itself, which we lost.

It was a simple in or out which i said (both on here and in real life) was a huge problem and would create more problems down the line as it was obvious there would be many variations of leave. Our politicians however accepted this and campaigned accordingly, on the basis that for once the referendum results would be binding.

Since then, Parliament VOTED to accept to leave the EU. And has since kicked out at least 8 variations of leave deals. As such, they only have themselves to blame and to say now that it is undemocratic is a major distortion of the truth. Those opposed to no deal have singularly failed to come up with any viable alternative and have now run out of time to do this.

It is beyond belief that mainstream media is failing to hold them to account for this.

If those politicians opposed to no deal were to salvage any honour or outright basic decency they would accept the democratic mandate that they themselves agreed to - otherwise they have zero credibility left.

Instead of being 'Remainers' they should instead campaign to rejoin the EU and be honest about it.

I am now in the very uncomfortable position of supporting Brexit not because i believe it is the correct decision for our nation but simply because they won the vote. If we do not honour the result, we have no democracy left. As such, it is an outright lie that Boris's decision is undemocratic - the only undemocratic actions have been by those politicians and luvvies campaigning to overturn a democratic result.

a reply to: Flavian

Spot on.

originally posted by: sapien82

originally posted by: oldcarpy

Nice quote from Rees-Mogg:

If the PM said Christmas Day was 25 December, Nicola Sturgeon would be outraged and shocked by that, so I wouldn’t worry too much about what the Scottish leader has to say.

yes this is exactly what parliament do , they Ignore the First minister of Scotland who is meant to be in a union of equals

Good.

a reply to: sapien82

yes this is exactly what parliament do , they Ignore the First minister of Scotland who is meant to be in a union of equals

The First Minister is the head of Holyrood, The Scottish Parliament and has no legal or moral standing in Parliament which is the government for the WHOLE of the UK.

Why would the First Minister's opinion have any bearing in Westminster?

A union of equals?
Please tell me how Scotland is treated less equal than anywhere else in the UK because looking at things from where I'm at you seem to do pretty bloody well compared to some of us.

a reply to: Flavian

Great post.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Would you be OK with changes to the US constitution based on a simple majority vote?

IF and until the system is changed ........


**In an absolute majority a candidate receives more than half of the votes cast (i.e. 50% +1)**


A miss is as good as a mile.

A near miss is still a miss.

No better than missing by a great margin.

Losing a game by one point is still losing

This isn't a game.

a reply to: Freeborn

it has been mentioned quite a lot when theresa may was in office and I watched ian blackford in parliament on a daily basis repeat the same thing that scotland was being ignored by westminster

Prime minister to announce devolution review on trip to Scotland

Theresa May has consistently ignored scotland

the first link i posted from the herald was behind a pay wall I think

here is another
Theresa mays legacy will be scottish independence

these are just some of the articles I've read over the brexit happenings

of course you can say its all opinion , but it does appear that Scotland, the first minsiter and the SNP MP's in parliament have been ignored.

so that would suggest to me that they aren't treating Scotland as an equal in the ongoing brexit negotiations.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: sapien82

yes this is exactly what parliament do , they Ignore the First minister of Scotland who is meant to be in a union of equals

The First Minister is the head of Holyrood, The Scottish Parliament and has no legal or moral standing in Parliament which is the government for the WHOLE of the UK.

Why would the First Minister's opinion have any bearing in Westminster?

A union of equals?
Please tell me how Scotland is treated less equal than anywhere else in the UK because looking at things from where I'm at you seem to do pretty bloody well compared to some of us.

I dunno maybe because the First minister is the leader of a nation which is in a Union of the United Kingdom.
Sturgeon may have no legal basis in parliament but ignoring her or her party says that they dont want to cooperate in a union of equals.

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: uncommitted

Did you not read the post from UK not really the truth but I like to think I am? That person suggested it would be an army but not in uniform - best asking that person.

Not in one uniform. But, "Command and control"?

It's that time of day they feed you isn't it?

No response, just gratuitous insults, is it? Nice.

Say something that deserves a proper response and you'd get one, post childish nonsense and you won't.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: uncommitted

Ah, it's the guy who thinks praising terrorists is good diplomacy criticising someone else's diplomacy. How ironic.

Ah, it's the guy who likes to throw smears at members because they don't agree with their point of view , how unsurprising you should open your post in such a way.

The unthinkable is the far right smugly sinking the UK while an ineffectual far left throws its toys out of the pram.

Except this isn't a left or right issue , it's an issue of control over our own destiny which is something we don't have being tied to the United States of Europe.

It's an insult to highlight your own words that you think Corbyn praising the IRA and hezbollah is diplomacy? Well that's something for you to consider really isn't it?

You are now seriously trying to say that the current mess has been orchestrated by the hard right ERG? You are seriously suggesting that?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: uncommitted

think it might be about seeing the UK being FCUKed to please the egos of a fairly pathetic minority that would rather see the whole of the UK suffer just so that they think they have proved their point by forcing us into a no deal state. At some point, not this year, not next year, maybe not for a few years, even the stupid will realise this was a total FCUK up.

What minority? The majority voted to leave. Did you miss that bit?

The majority didn't sign something that they would be happy for there to be no deal, but I know what your response will be.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: uncommitted

Did you not read the post from UK not really the truth but I like to think I am? That person suggested it would be an army but not in uniform - best asking that person.

Not in one uniform. But, "Command and control"?

It's that time of day they feed you isn't it?

No response, just gratuitous insults, is it? Nice.

Say something that deserves a proper response and you'd get one, post childish nonsense and you won't.

More gratuitous insults and nothing worthwhile to add to this discussion. What a credit to ATS you are.

a reply to: uncommitted

Did you know my response was going to be "Bollox"?

a reply to: Freeborn

here is the GERS report which you may well know , that was created by the conservatives in the 90's to mount defense against devolution ? ( doesnt seem very equal , we wanted more decision making in Scotland so the tories prepare to convince us its a bad idea)

Now the GERS report is used to mount a defense against independence in Scotland

Anyway , the article outlines that this " pooling and sharing" is pretty much the case for Britian
we have borrowed more , and we dont subsidise one another , we pool and share and the spending is done across the UK not just Scotland.

These are the figures, I know they can be presented in such a way to give a desired outcome
I am not an expert on such matters I was just posting it for clarity on the issue of "subsidy"

GERS , whose subsidy and where

a reply to: sapien82

Ian Blackford speaks for the SNP in Westminster and as an opposition MP I suspect he gets ignored just as much as all other non-Tory MP's - well apart from maybe the DUP that is.

So in what way does that make Scotland unique from other parts of the UK who are ignored at least just as much?
The only difference I can tell is that you in Scotland and Wales have a damn sight more devolved power than the rest of us poor souls.

That suggests to me that you are in fact treat as something of a special case and given a damn sight more than large parts of the UK.

No, it's not perfect and it should be a damn sight better.....but please try and put yourself in other people's situations and maybe you'll see why you don't get much sympathy with 'your' incessant whinging and whining.

Theresa May was a particularly incompetent Prime Minister in highly unusual times.
She ignored the rest of the UK as well, yet again Scotland isn't unique in this.

And how many of those millions who voted for Brexit are being ignored by countless politicians?
Nothing unique in that.

There is far more in common than we do have that separates us - the political elite ignores the vast majority of us - if we were to unite and fight our common enemy instead squabbling about petty differences we could bring about real and positive change.....but hey, I guess that would mean stop moaning about how put upon and downtrodden the Scots were and start actually doing something positive.

This was 'good feeling Friday'....since logging on ATS that mood is ebbing away bit by bit.........

a reply to: sapien82

I'll have a look some time tomorrow mate.....my brain is hurting today and I very much doubt any of it would register let alone sink in enough for any reasoned analysis etc.

Waiting to go to the quacks then it's full steam to the pub.....not been all week!!

And I'm suspicious of anything with GERS in it!!

originally posted by: ScepticScot

This isn't a game.

Quite right, and full marks for observation


However that's the system politics are currently run on..... so the referendum

was won by a majority?

The only people "playing games" are the politicians who are doing everything

possible to sink the result of a democratic majority vote of the people, and a

majority can be anything from 1% up?

An election is never 'nearly won' it either IS or it ISN'T