Dayton shooter found to have mind-altering SSRI drugs in his system

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Gotta pass it to find out what's in it.

a reply to: Metallicus

I've used these for over a decade and I've never hurt anybody... guess I'm just the exception to the rule eh???

a reply to: shawmanfromny

Same thing happened with my wife.
Effexor/XR for over 10 years.

Took alot of patience, time and care for her to come off that nasty sh@t.

a reply to: tkwasny

do you want people not seeking treatment because that's how you get people not seeking treatment ,and with HIPA no one gets to access peoples mental health records baring them being adjudicated mentally defective the legal way some people with mental illnesses do get banned from fire arms ownership

but hey you want studies done on effect of SSRI's in mass shootings/violence go for that and get some peer reviewed studies to see if its a major aspect as some think,remember in the 70s and 80s it was rock music that lead to violence (and satanism lol),then they blamed video games (research does not back this up either) and a whole host of other issues that the bulk of found no correlation or causation to the actual cause which is why more research is needed not knee jerk reactions to the new "evil scare" of the day

www.researchgate.net... here is one of the more recent studies done on it
this snippit covers general gun violence which is mostly people of the same race killing other members of there same race(whites shoot whites and blacks shoot blacks for example)

According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, the number of police officers shot and killed in the line of duty went up 56% from 41 in 2015 to 64 in 2016. This translates to about 0.007 percent of all police officers. Twenty-one officers were killed in ambush-style shootings in 2016, including eight who died in two assaults in 10 days in July 2016, in Dallas, Texas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Both assaults occurred in the context of protests against police killings of African-Americans. Ironically, the likelihood of a police officer being shot dead is far higher than that of a member of the public being killed by the police. While there is no centralized tracking system (The Washington Post and Guardian newspapers are leading sources of information), an estimated 1,000 people per year are shot dead by police, or 0.00003 percent of the general population. However, blacks are being shot at a rate that is 2.5 times higher than whites, with 0.0005 percent of the black population shot dead by police in 2016. For every black male killed by a (white) police officer there are hundreds more killed by other black males. Violent crime is largely intra-racial for all groups, but the rate of black-on-black gun homicide has led some commentators to argue, “Some Black Lives Don’t Matter” (Lowry, 2015). Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show blacks routinely constitute 50–60 percent of shooting homicide victims, despite constituting only 13 percent of the general US population. A young black man is about five times more likely to be killed by a gun than a young white man. And these numbers, dramatic as they are, understate the problem because most gun deaths are ruled accidental or the result of suicide, but in 82 percent of cases where a black person is killed by a gun, it is judged a homicide. The Violence Project I 15 Gun Deaths in America In 2014, there were 33,594 firearm deaths in the United States, a number comparable to both motor vehicle traffic deaths and opioid deaths. Politicians often talk about an opioid “crisis” or “epidemic” in America and by that logic, gun violence should qualify for equal treatment. More than 90 Americans a day die by gunfire. It breaks down to 21,386 suicides, 11,008 homicides, and 1,200 accidental deaths or other. Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other high-income OECD countries (Grinshteyn & Hemenway, 2016). The rate of gun violence in the United States is not the highest in the world—approximately 30 counties in Central America, Africa, and the Middle East, rank much higher. However, those countries with high levels of gun violence (e.g., El Salvador, The Philippines, Iraq) are not like the United States in terms of G.D.P., life expectancy, and education. For this reason, America’s rate of gun homicides (3.5 per 100,000 people) is an outlier. More Guns, More Gun Violence? Guns and homicides are statistically associated. Areas with a higher prevalence of guns have a higher prevalence of gun homicides. The question is whether the relationship is causal or not. We simply don’t know because of a lack of robust data (Foran, 2016). The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is essentially prohibited from studying the public health effects of guns, for example, even since NRA lobbyists convinced Congress to cut into its funding (retribution for a series of studies in the mid-1990s perceived by the NRA as advocating for gun control). According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (2010), the firearms homicide rate, and homicide rate overall, is higher in the US than other

psychrights.org... here is another pdf on the effects of SSRI'S and suicide and mania so they have done some research on the subject but SSRIS are not the only treatment for various mental illnesses but it seems to imply the young are much more prone to violent bouts of mania and suicidality then the older populations


and the dayton shooter isnt the exact best case study for this as he was also on a bunch of Peruvian marching powder as well as a few other substances ,the charleston shooter was on suboxone a drug to treat opium dependence(he also had no perscription for it) so perhaps some of the more hardcore illegal drugs could be a factor in violence

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

What is the scientific evidence for an association between psychotropic drugs and homicidal behavior? Most of the available studies are case reports that only suggest a coincidental link between violence or homicide and antidepressants (2,3) or benzodiazepines (4), while very little is known about the association between antipsychotics and homicide. Two recent ecological studies found no support for a significant role of antidepressant use in lethal violence in the Netherlands or the U.S., although data on individual offenders were not available (5,6). Quantitative data from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) adverse event reporting system (7) imply that some antidepressants may be associated with a disproportionately high number of violent events (8). On the contrary, two small studies on antidepressant use among a special subgroup of homicide-suicide offenders found no evidence to support a causal link between antidepressants and homicidal behavior (9,10). There are three crucial conditions that must be fulfilled to properly study the putative association between exposure (i.e., use of a psychotropic drug) and outcome (homicide): a) the sample must be unselected, to be representative of the total offender population; b) the reason for prescribing the medication must be considered and controlled, and c) the effect of other concomitant medication(s) must be adjusted. No such studies have been done thus far on the association between the risk of committing homicide and the use of psychotropic drugs. We carried out a prospective cohort study with an embedded case-control design in order to test the hypothesis that current antidepressant treatment is associated with an increased risk of committing a homicide. We prospectively collected a database that included all homicides reported to, and investigated by, the police in Finland in the period 2003-2011 (11). From the 1091 homicides known to police, after exclusion of 12 cases not solved, 7 offenders coming from abroad, 24 offenders whose data were blocked due to security reasons, and 10 offenders excluded due to incomplete data on previous incarceration, we were left with 959 offenders, who were included in our analysis. For each offender, 10 population controls where picked from the Population Information System by matching individuals by gender, age (year of birth), and home municipality at the time of each homicide. Information on medication use from January 1995 to December 2011 was obtained for all cases and their controls through record linkage to the nationwide Finnish Prescription Register. The database contains the date of prescription purchase, the Anatomic Therapeutic Chemical (ATC) code, and the purchased quantity, stated as the number of defined daily doses (DDDs), which are defined by the World Health Organization (12). This procedure has been described in more detail in our previous cohort studies (13–16). We identified a subject as a “current user” if (s)he was using a given drug at the time of the homicide/matching, according to the amount of medication purchased in DDDs. Drug exposure was assumed to start at the date of purchase, and drug exposure duration was determined by the amount of DDDs. Previous use (Yes/No) was also based on the date of purchase and amount in DDDs. A subject had previous use if (s)he made a prescription purchase during the previous 7-year period, before the time of homicide/matching, but the drug exposure ended before the date of homicide. Among those offenders who had been in prison during the 7-year period prior to homicide, the time during their prison sentence (prior to their release) was censored, and also among their matched control subjects. Subjects aged 25 years or younger were further investigated in a separate analysis. The primary outcome measure was the risk of offending during current use vs. no current use for three major categories of psychotropic medications: antidepressants, benzodiazepines, and antipsychotics. Within the offender cohort, each individual served as his/her own control. In this analysis, individuals without any medication exposure were omitted. A Poisson regression model was used to estimate the relative risk (RR) of homicide during current use versus no-use of each study medication among the offenders. The follow-up time on medication was based on DDDs, and truncated to each person's total follow-up time. The RR was calculated for both the adjusted and unadjusted models, according to age, gender, current use of illegal drugs, current use of alcohol, and both current (i.e., at the time of the homicide) and previous use of other study medications. When comparing offenders and matched controls, the odds ratio (OR) was used as a measure for the risk, and it was estimated using the conditional logistic regression model that takes into account the matching sets (which individuals served as controls for each offender). For primary outcome measures, the level of statistical significance was set to p

www.researchgate.net... this one looks at anti depressants and stimulants (Ritalin for example) but not SSRI's

That guy was on a lot of drugs, not sure how to gauge anything with all that was in his system.
BTW, I'm not doubting the SSRI drugs can be dangerous.

originally posted by: vonclod
That guy was on a lot of drugs, not sure how to gauge anything with all that was in his system.
BTW, I'm not doubting the SSRI drugs can be dangerous.

I wonder if it has to do with straight edge people going to the doctor being honest about things that are bothering them and all of a sudden, they're on a mind altering drug with the promise this will "fix" it.

I'm no saint, I've intentionally dabbled... But if I got unwillingly altered and told to do it every day, I can't imagine the terror.

We give kids interactive rectangles to distract them from dealing with reality, and when they get to an age we can't deal with their energy and adversity, we send them to the doctor.

Perhaps that's why we have so many young people feeling detached from society.

a reply to: chelsdh

I take my medicine at home and alone. I never take my medicine when or even if I plan to go somewhere. I don't have panic attacks...

a reply to: Metallicus

I just wonder where were his friends and family?

This guy had no one near him that could see that he was losing it?

Was he alone when he was drinking and doing those drugs?

One of the main problems in america is the lack of community.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I wonder if it has to do with straight edge people going to the doctor being honest about things that are bothering them and all of a sudden, they're on a mind altering drug with the promise this will "fix" it.

Unfortunately it seems to be how they deal with it nowdays, so effortless to write a script..rather than dig into the issue. I imagine that gets expensive.

I'm no saint, I've intentionally dabbled... But if I got unwillingly altered and told to do it every day, I can't imagine the terror.

I dabbled way too much on the illicit end, long, long ago, but never with medications. I guess in some cases, the meds work..probably a godsend to some people. But if it isn't working, not so good..such a delicate balance playing with brain chemistry. Things can and do go horribly wrong.

We give kids interactive rectangles to distract them from dealing with reality, and when they get to an age we can't deal with their energy and adversity, we send them to the doctor. Perhaps that's why we have so many young people feeling detached from society.

I think we are failing badly here, the current generation..so many reasons why, but ya! thats a big one!

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

Probably the ones who are ALSO on coke, Xannies and booze as well as whatever SSRI they are on for depression?

It's too bad, really. A few more drugs in that cocktail and he might have dropped a fire album.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Perhaps. I personally know two people who have done more and worse drugs and are pretty functional people. Some folks can pound the dope like champs.

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

I believe it. In fact, I've got a t-shirt here somewhere.

My point was to reinforce yours, however. There are millions of people who take SSRI's every day and don't go on a killing spree. I'm thinking most of them aren't on Xanax + coke + booze though.

I was put on SSRIs for chronic pain of all things and it was the most dangerously depressed I had ever been in my life. I thought about killing myself nearly every minute of every day until I decided to finally kick the junk and told the doctors to go eff themselves. Now I just pop pot candy. Works even better for the pain and I don't feel like dangling from a chandelier.

If there is anyone reading this suffering from chronic pain, please just use marijuana. It helps and it is so much better for you than any pill a doctor is going to prescribe for you. And, trust me, I'm not some typical pot head. I managed to go through middle school, high school, college and the majority of my adult life without ever even trying it. Now I'm wondering why.

I'm sure for some people SSRIs truly help, too -- but for many others it is like handing them a death sentence. SSRIs need more serious study and scrutiny.

a reply to: Metallicus

Shame how blind apparently the masses are to the underlying issues of these horrors. Makes me wonder though if palms hsve been greased to sway the debate away from gun control.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

I believe it. In fact, I've got a t-shirt here somewhere.

My point was to reinforce yours, however. There are millions of people who take SSRI's every day and don't go on a killing spree. I'm thinking most of them aren't on Xanax + coke + booze though.

Should there be millions of people on SSRI's though? Is it possible the vast majority of them can find more natural ways to cope with their problems?

I think the root of it is doctors are giving people a pill to offer a little bit of a mental escape by numbing.

We have people grow up to think that everything can be solved with a pill. Kids are "too energetic" so we give them salt amphetamines, one molecule away from meth. Someone gets a minor injury and we give them a months supply of opiates, some get a refill. If someone goes to the doctor expressing they are going through a hard time, we put them on Xanax.

Our society is glorifying detachment via numbing in almost every aspect. It's no wonder we see so many people isolating themselves and then losing their mind because they have nothing and more importantly no one to balance them out much less acknowledge a problem.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Well, this will come as no surprise to most of us that understand how dangerous these drugs can be when used by certain people. I wanted to bring to the forefront that the use of these drugs is all too common among these mass-murderers. I wish Government would understand that mental health and the use of these drugs is the main cause of large scale killing sprees and not tools that are used.

According to an autopsy report, Betts had not only been taking mind-altering SSRIs in the lead-up to his murder melee, but he was also taking coc aine, Xanax, and alcohol, three other deadly drugs linked to extreme violence. In other words, Betts was severely mind-altered by a combination of Big Pharma and Big Alcohol when he decided to take the lives of innocent people for no apparent reason.

Article

The problem with the argument blaming medications for murder, however, is that though there has been a significant increase in the use of psychiatric medications, there has not been a corresponding increase in violence. In fact, just the opposite has occurred. Violent crime has decreased dramatically.

www.researchgate.net...

a reply to: Metallicus

the question here is whether the drugs made them into a killer, or if they purposfully took the drugs because they thought that it would make them a more effective killer.

Did they think that they could mp themselves up on drugs to make themselves stronger or faster?

You know, like how some soldiers got given amphetemines.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Anxiety and depression are a fairly natural response to our civilization for a small but not insignificant portion of the population. Most of our social interactions are fake. The rest are pyschosocial combat with a cheap smile plastered over it. The only game in town is infinite growth and profitability on a quarterly basis. A fistfight between two boys is a federal case. Climbing trees is unthinkable, irresponsible and dangerous. Our culture thrives on making stupid people famous. The list goes on.

SSRI's + talk therapy saved my life. I wouldn't be here without them. Fifty years on the wrong planet, playing the wrong game wore me down. I don't talk about it much here because most of our conversations are very surface level and/or externally focused, but there it is.

Should the pharmaceutical industry be reigned in? Absolutely. We can start by making it illegal to advertise them directly to consumers, like every other civilized nation on the planet. That would be a huge help I think and it would also make prescription drugs -- for the people who need them -- a LOT cheaper.

In the meantime, I'll be in my office with the curtains drawn and the doors locked. The world outside has gone crazy 'cept for me and thee (and I sometimes have my doubts about thee). If you are going out into it today, keep your head on a swivel and don't look down.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Anxiety and depression are a fairly natural response to our civilization for a small but not insignificant portion of the population. Most of our social interactions are fake. The rest are pyschosocial combat with a cheap smile plastered over it. The only game in town is infinite growth and profitability on a quarterly basis. A fistfight between two boys is a federal case. Climbing trees is unthinkable, irresponsible and dangerous. Our culture thrives on making stupid people famous. The list goes on.

Anxiety isn't one sized fits all, but for the most part I agree it's a natural response to a lot of what modern society has become.

SSRI's + talk therapy saved my life. I wouldn't be here without them. Fifty years on the wrong planet, playing the wrong game wore me down. I don't talk about it much here because most of our conversations are very surface level and/or externally focused, but there it is.

Kudos man, and as I've said, I'm sure it is a life changer for some people. I've dealt with anxiety before, and I think your first part was very eloquent in describing what can bring that on. I've found that for me, anxiety is a defense mechanism. It's my subconsciousness telling me that it's not getting the balance and nourishment it needs, and I need to be proactive in changing that. I've found two things that help be a lot.

1st one, and most important- at least once a month, me and a large group of friends go up on a nearby mountain here. Cell phone service is almost non existent for most people data wise, just enough service to make a phone call (often choppy) or send and receive text. It's an unwritten rule that people abstain from that though... The TV is rarely ever on, and the only form of digital entertainment music in the background, usually something related to what we are cooking for the evening. Outside during the day you can hear the constant music of the birds, and cows out at pasture. At night during the summer you hear the rythmic trance like hum of locusts and/or cicadas. Between hearing the sounds of vibrant life and making and breaking bread with loved ones, I feel more calibrated than any drug I've ever had.

2nd thing that helps me, ironically is ATS. We're as anonymous as we want to be, and as personable as we decide to be. We can be honest here and say things that we otherwise wouldn't voice in certain companies as our society has become to touchy to discuss things as we once could. It's as shallow as you want it to be, and you can find ways to get people to open up just as you have leading to my reciprocation. It's a fun outlet and helps me out quite a bit. The main thing I've found that helps me is keeping my same morals in life on a platform where I otherwise wouldn't have to. I'm trying to be true to myself to find myself.

Should the pharmaceutical industry be reigned in? Absolutely. We can start by making it illegal to advertise them directly to consumers, like every other civilized nation on the planet. That would be a huge help I think and it would also make prescription drugs -- for the people who need them -- a LOT cheaper.

I'm already being long winded, but I agree here, so I'll leave it at that.

In the meantime, I'll be in my office with the curtains drawn and the doors locked. The world outside has gone crazy 'cept for me and thee (and I sometimes have my doubts about thee). If you are going out into it today, keep your head on a swivel and don't look down.

It's a big world out there. I promise you there are some places out there that not only would you like, but it would help you.

I agree society is turning into something that is more ugly than beautiful. But we still have a vast array of options in what we surround ourselves with. But we have to discover what will benefit us, and no one will do it for us, and even if they wanted to they can't... Because they don't know the deepest parts of you and I like we do.

Get out there man, it will free you. Also if you ever feel this place is getting to shallow, be the change you want... Or reach out to me and we'll talk.

Cheers