Trump’s threat to label Antifa terrorist group triggers row in Germany

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: TGunner

Lets say they get labeled 'domestic terrorists' & lets take this to its natural conclusion:

As an American citizen, what is your responsibility to the Constitution if you come across a domestic terrorist engaging in terrorism? - are you required to enact a citizens arrest? or can you use extreme prejudice in taking him/her/them out? or are you required to only report activities and await law enforcement to arrive?

Imagine a scenario where Trump looses the next election through the use of google manipulation and media subterfuge / propaganda and a democrat muppet gets installed. Then imagine that same government labeling all resistance to the new government as domestic terrorists - using the same law that Trump enacted to label Antifa as domestic terrorists.

Who gets to decide what constitutes a 'domestic terrorist'? because if they are determined by skin colour or country of origin and NOT determined by religious or political alignment(s) then this is a dog & pony show designed to strip freedoms to ensure safety.

Allow Antifa to bike lock and batton folks into submission so laws can be passed - sounds like a movement designed to be the strong-arm of the globalists infiltrators like Soros and other scum.

"be careful what you wish for"

I think you have hit the nail right on the head,

Having Federal Law Enforcement put the hammer down on behavior that breaks existing law, is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do.

What the Federal Government should do is investigate these cities and Law Enforcement organizations for violations of the law, and file charges against the chain of command and throw the damn book at them!

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Dfairlite

Communism is null of government and socialism has evolved from the early days of it's ideologies seed into human minds. Why can democracy and capitalism evolve but socialism can't?

Capitalism hasnt evolved, the give money to the richest keep the serfs (middle classes) happy and keep the poor as far away from me as possible mantra hasn't changed.

Socialism bore Communism which no one really tried, Lenin took ideas but his version was called Leninism, Stalin had another go with Stalinism dunno where he thought of the name though. Kruschev and the others to follow tried a new form of Communism but it was doomed via the embargoes placed around the world. Ditto for Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea.
Tito had some success with his version of Communism but it was just a tinderbox, check the civil war after he died.
China had Maoism under Mao (quelle surprise) borrowing heavily from Capitalism to the point they basically are Capitalists now just using the Communist name.

Talking of borrowing a name, the nazi party did have Socialist in the name but, their first job was to round up and kill Socialists, they later invaded the Soviet Union to eradicate Communists.

Back on track, Greece recently had a stab at Socialism but nobody ever pays taxes in Greece, Spain's trying it but some franco fascist types are scuttling that which leaves Denmark whose version of Socialism is doing pretty nicely.

In short Socialism does evolve, massively and constantly. Capitalism, popular with Conservatives is, much like the name describes, Conservative, it's not built to change.
Americans have to learn simple things, believing in science, questioning faerytales like religion, being polite and common decency arent the traits of a Socialist they are just 21st century ideals, sorry conservatives the 17th century finished some time ago.
And sorry Republicans and trump fanboys, just because you believe life starts at masturbation, school shooting are funny, science sucks, facts hurt so FAKE NEWS and talking snakes give apples, it doesn't mean the other Socialist.

Some people really need to read books on politics, it is turning into everything I hate is left. Get out of your echo chamber on youtube and learn something!

a reply to: strongfp

The ONLY Thing Alex Jones has EVER Been Guilty of is an Occasional " Exaggeration " on SOME of his Covered News Stories in Order to get National News Coverage for his EX Channel on YouTube , and on INFOWARS.com . Now that he is Literally a " FREE MAN " By Being BANNED , He can Still Inform the Intentionally Uninformed about WTF is REALLY Going On in this Country Today . As an American , He has a First Amendment Right Just Like the Rest of US to FREE SPEECH , and to Actually be DENIED that Right by Internet Corporate TRAITORS to Our Beloved Country like Google , Twitter , Facebook , and Yes , Even Microsoft Corp . is a Grave Injustice to the People of this Country , and I For One am Getting Really Tied of being Lied to and Technically Controlled Against My Will . How about YOU People > ?



www.brighteon.com...

a reply to: contextual

iT wAsN't ReAl CoMmUnIsM!

lol

a reply to: DBCowboy

Search online "Antifa member shot by police as he tried to shoot at police." Or "Antifa member attacks ICE with bombs and firearm." Or "Dayton shooter was Antifa member."

They are a terrorist group, same for BLM.

a reply to: strongfp

It's a fairy tale, but it is literally the opposite of denying humans what they are owed

What are humans owed, and by whom are they owed this?

Socialism is based on the principles of liberal democracy

I'd contend socialism and communism are the same thing. The only real difference being that communists recognize there will always be leaders and instead of lying about who controls the means of production, they say the state will. Meanshile socialists can't accept that there will always be leaders so instead of admitting the state will control the means of production, they say the people will. Of course, the people will elect leaders and the leaders will then control the means of production using the "power derived from the people." But functionally in communism you have a government controlling the means of production. In socialism you have a government controlling the means of production.

Also, capitalism doesn't play to the degeneracy of mankind

Degeneracy may have not been the best choice of words. Nature is more apt. Capitalism plays to the basic nature of mankind. To look out for himself and those close to him. If you had a years worth of food storage for your family and nuclear war broke out, how many people would you give your food storage to? Would you feed 1,000 people for a day? Would you keep what you had stored for the purpose you had stored it for? Socialism/communism say you feed the 1,000 for a day, that's your responsibility to society. Capitalism says you keep it for the purpose you had stored it for as you have no responsibility to society other than to look out for yourself and those you care to look after.

a reply to: contextual

You should stop smoking whatever it is you keep smoking... Socialism and communism have been tried dozens, and dozens of times... Hitler and the nazis also murdered other SS soldiers/officers, and in case you didn't know so did the castro brothers ordered the murder/executions of other socialists... Stalin ordered the death of Lenin and Trotsky, and at least succeeded in murdering Trotsky... Before Hitler went after OTHER socialists and communists he asked them to leave the INTERNATIONALIST branch of socialism/communism and to join the national socialists... It's what socialists/communists do. When they take control, if there are any other branches of socialism/communism that could be a threat to their power those socialists/communists go after/murder others in the left...

BTW, China is still very communist... They just allow capitalism to loyal members of the communist party... You must ask permission to the CCP to open/have a business in China, and if you are an opponent of the CCP and are not a loyalist you are denied your business... For crying out loud they even have a "score behavior," and if you have a bad score you are denied travel, you are denied government benefits, etc...

a reply to: underwerks

Your messiah Obama did exactly that. Or do people not remember "Obama's DHS paper on right-wing extremists"?

...
Significantly, Napolitano has never apologized or retracted the report’s specific targeting as ‘potential terrorists’ conservative Americans who:

• Oppose abortions

• Oppose same-sex marriage

• Oppose restrictions on firearms

• Oppose lax immigration

• Oppose the policies of President Obama regarding immigration, citizenship, and the expansion of social programs

• Oppose continuation of free trade agreements

• Are suspect of foreign regimes

• Fear Communist regimes

• Oppose a “one world” government

• Bemoan the decline of U.S. stature in the world

• Are upset with loss of U.S. manufacturing jobs to China and India

• . . . and the list goes on.
...

Thomas More Law Center – Rightwing Extremism – Lawsuit v. H.S.

labeling antifa terrorist before actual nazi, white nationalist and hate groups ? hmmm sounds about wyt.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Damn that list is spot on for Trump voter mass shooters, theyy were right

a reply to: Dfairlite

What are humans owed, and by whom are they owed this?

You quot mined me a little. Here I'll let Abe Lincoln say it best:

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

Meaning, the labor people put in is worth more than the capital that it produces. You cannot get coal from the ground unless labor is used, and the coal is useless if it weren't processed with labor, in every aspect of an economy labor is the foundation of it all.
What you do as a human are owed the time and labor put in, whether it's cooking a meal or the manager of a steel mill.

I'd contend socialism and communism are the same thing. The only real difference being that communists recognize there will always be leaders and instead of lying about who controls the means of production, they say the state will. Meanshile socialists can't accept that there will always be leaders so instead of admitting the state will control the means of production, they say the people will. Of course, the people will elect leaders and the leaders will then control the means of production using the "power derived from the people." But functionally in communism you have a government controlling the means of production. In socialism you have a government controlling the means of production.

I think you have them mixed up. Communism the workers and citizens are the government. The only forms of government in a communist world are localized, basically unions. This is where Marx's theory, doesn't really fall apart, but, can you imagine a city as dense as New York or Tokyo without a centralized government? He does however predict automation in his labor theory, that it will eventually become a measure of means of production one day:

The labour process. — Fixed capital. Means of labour. Machine. — Fixed capital. Transposition of powers of labour into powers of capital both in fixed and in circulating capital. — To what extent fixed capital (machine) creates value. — Lauderdale. Machine presupposes a mass of workers.

So it really makes you think.

Socialism still has a government, this is why Marx theorized that in order to achieve communism, capitalism and socialism need to run their course, go through their trials.

Degeneracy may have not been the best choice of words. Nature is more apt. Capitalism plays to the basic nature of mankind. To look out for himself and those close to him. If you had a years worth of food storage for your family and nuclear war broke out, how many people would you give your food storage to? Would you feed 1,000 people for a day? Would you keep what you had stored for the purpose you had stored it for? Socialism/communism say you feed the 1,000 for a day, that's your responsibility to society. Capitalism says you keep it for the purpose you had stored it for as you have no responsibility to society other than to look out for yourself and those you care to look after.

Survival does not equate to capitalism.

Capitalism is a fancy word for an economy that thrives off capitalists. Meaning, those who's main goal in life is to gain as much capital as they can in order to achieve a certain status.
If we take your situation, and lets say the world is almost back on it's feet. If you had a bunker full of 1,000 cans of food, it would be pretty good. But let's say the guy next door has 10,000 cans of food and they are willing to share some. But for favors. You with your 1,000 cans of food you aren't willing to share have lost to the capitalist game to that person.

If you were to put it into socialist terms, agreements would be met by everyone to share the food where it is needed, and future earnings through perhaps farming etc would be the same.

In a communist world, there would be non, communism requires end stage capitalism and socialism to run it's course. This is also where many 'attempted' communist societies have failed, it was forced, and this is why you shouldn't trust Marx's manifesto, he was probably drunk at the time and given some gold for his time to think up of how to get the ball rolling.

originally posted by: Theyy
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Damn that list is spot on for Trump voter mass shooters, theyy were right

They were not. The Christchurch murderer wrote that the country with the closest values to his own is China... so he was a communist... He wanted gun control implemented, he believed in overpopulation and that humans have to be killed to save the environment, among other "far left-wing beliefs."

This is the entire symbol, part of which he had drawn in his equipment.







The El Paso shooter wrote that he was following the footsteps of the CC murderer, and like him, the El Paso shooter wanted gun control, the elimination of people to save the planet/save the environment.

The El Paso Shooter Admits he is a Progressive Leftist

The Dayton, Ohio, shooter was also left-wing, wanted to vote for Warren. So how in the world were they Trump supporters?...

Dayton shooter Connor Betts described himself as a 'leftist' who hated Trump, wanted Elizabeth Warren for president and was PRO-gun control, his now-suspended social media accounts show

The "mental gymnastics" you left-wingers do to avoid admitting facts...

originally posted by: strongfp
...
If you were to put it into socialist terms, agreements would be met by everyone to share the food where it is needed, and future earnings through perhaps farming etc would be the same.

In a communist world, there would be non, communism requires end stage capitalism and socialism to run it's course. This is also where many 'attempted' communist societies have failed, it was forced, and this is why you shouldn't trust Marx's manifesto, he was probably drunk at the time and given some gold for his time to think up of how to get the ball rolling.

They fail because socialism/communism will ALWAYS fail... Stop idolizing ideas that have caused mass starvation, the murder of 120-140 million and imprisonment of millions more for being religious, or for not wanting socialism/communism...

Socialism and communism have murdered more people, and have imprisoned more innocent people in 100 years than all the world wars, conflicts, and small wars combined for the last 2,000 years at least...

It is time to give up socialism/communism...

a reply to: strongfp

Meaning, the labor people put in is worth more than the capital that it produces.

I'm not sure I follow. What is worth? How is it defined? Dollars? What is the difference between worth and capital in the above sentence?

What you do as a human are owed the time and labor put in, whether it's cooking a meal or the manager of a steel mill.

Who owes me this? Let's take the cooking a meal example. If I cook myself a great meal, who owes me more capital than the labor I put in?

I think you have them mixed up. Communism the workers and citizens are the government. The only forms of government in a communist world are localized, basically unions. This is where Marx's theory, doesn't really fall apart, but, can you imagine a city as dense as New York or Tokyo without a centralized government?

Exactly. It ignores the basic principles of being a person and living in a society. There will be a government of some sort and that government, deriving it's power from the people will really be the controller of all the production. When a government is run by people, it becomes corrupt and the more power it has, the more damage it can do to the people living under it.

You with your 1,000 cans of food you aren't willing to share have lost to the capitalist game to that person.

Sure, but I'm still alive and I'm not really all that worried about what my neighbor has.

If you were to put it into socialist terms, agreements would be met by everyone to share the food where it is needed, and future earnings through perhaps farming etc would be the same.

Incorrect, in socialist terms you wouldn't have been allowed to store up that much food and if you had, the government would have confiscated it (in the name of the people, of course). When people were to the point of starving, they'd start deciding who would die and who wouldn't based on their own corrupt interests.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The media told them that these people were right wingers. They believe what they see on TV. All it took was one read through of either manifesto to know they weren't right wing. They were xenophobic lefties. The media has just done its best to convince the public that xenophobia = right wing.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: DBCowboy

Original Antifa, well their origins stem from east Germany. And were much, much worse then what we see today in their rag tag group of people.

Also, you can't make a political ideology terrorist, otherwise you land yourself into deep areas totalitarian waters.

Antifa isn't just a "political ideology." Their ideology includes using violence, and even murder/attempt to murder people over their "political ideology." So in sum, Antifa wants to use not only intimidation but also violence and even murder to further their far left-wing goals. That is the very definition of real "terrorists."

The Obama administration did label half or more of the U.S. as "possible terrorists" just for being conservatives. Not because "conservatives" condone violence like Antifa and BLM, among other real hate groups do, but rather for believing in the U.S. Constitution, not wanting a communist regime, not wanting a "one world government," not AGREEING with any of Obama's policies... That was the targeting and labeling of people as "terrorists" simply for disagreeing in politics...

Antifa is a real terrorist group. They don't just have a difference in opinion, they intimidate, use threats of going after people's families, going after ICE and our LEOs in general, and even use violence and threats to murdering people just for not agreeing with them...

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The media told them that these people were right wingers. They believe what they see on TV. All it took was one read through of either manifesto to know they weren't right wing. They were xenophobic lefties. The media has just done its best to convince the public that xenophobia = right wing.

Yep. The fake left-wing media's narrative. Hide the truth and claim it is because of the right that these murderers are committing atrocities...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The media told them that these people were right wingers. They believe what they see on TV. All it took was one read through of either manifesto to know they weren't right wing. They were xenophobic lefties. The media has just done its best to convince the public that xenophobia = right wing.

Yep. The fake left-wing media's narrative. Hide the truth and claim it is because of the right that these murderers are committing atrocities...

They only manipulate the easily manipulated though. As you can see on this site it’s only the thick, the low-info and the low-IQ who show signs of media manipulation.

Easily noticed by who among them are in the “it was Russians” , “he’s anti immigrant” , “he’s a racist” and of course the “he hates women” crowd.

All one hundred percent media-fed lies and propaganda that ONLY manipulated the easily manipulated.

Which is very few people actually, so the election next year is well and truly in the bag.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Im genuinely curious deebs..

At what point do you think antifa could be legitimately labeled a terrorist organization?

I actually agree with your stance on this, but for perhaps very different reasons.

The issue, as I see it, is that antifa is a group that literally roams in mobs seeking out people they think have a different worldview. And then commit violence upon them with the overall goal seeming to be affecting change, preventing their opposition from having a voice, and creating an environment that continues to oppress.

The only real difference I see between them and a cell of radical islam would be efficacy and maybe how openly they operate. So, antifa is significantly less effective, thankfully, but much more blatant and out in the open.

I dont think the core ideology is what is causing this at all, I would think it has more to do with their methods. I dont think someone who thought "death to america is gr8" would really be an issue.. Until they started roaming the streets, violently "sharing" that perspective.

Theres a line there, somewhere..

In brief, I disagree with the premise of "terrorist labeling" for much the same reason as "hate crimes." Not to mention that the current "left" is already doing their own version of "terrorist labeling" every day with "nazi" and various derivatives. Sure, most normal folks have at least begun to question the religious zealots credibility, but that just means they will be whipping themselves deeper into their fervor of seeing nahzees errywhere.

Frankly, I dont like any of it and I really am not a fan of how things began to change with the patriot act. It also seems like all the things we do to "fix" things are based on feel good pandering. Which wouldn't be nearly as relevant, if it didnt also consistently exacerbate.. everything.

But, in modern understanding and perspective, labeling antifa in this way seems pretty consistent to me. It also seems a far cry from just labeling ideologies as terrorists, unless part of that ideology is to "spread the word" through violence, repeatedly and predictably (important distinction).

a reply to: Serdgiam


It's confusing. Hate crimes vs acts of terror vs crimes.

They're all illegal. But we've created such a bureaucracy that we have to keep inventing more terms for crimes to keep up with the level of punishment.

My solution to Antifa would be the same for ISIS.

Think however you want. But the second, the very second you deliberately infringe on the rights of another individual, punishment should be swift and severe.