Evolution - A Philosophical Belief

a reply to: Vector99

Dont bother. The real problem is the evidence that is presented goes beyond simple explanations and requires in depth scientific knowledge and analysis.
In other words, big scary science words and methods make the fundies uncomfortable.

Shapiro isn't rejecting evolution though, just the Darwinian evolution that he argues rejects findings from molecular biology, he calls himself a "third-way evolutionist" and rejects creationism too.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
The vast majority of academics consider evolution a "settled science" whether or not all the details have been worked out, meaning there is enough conclusive evidence pointing in that direction to be confident in the theory.
At this point in time the only way anyone is going to be able to intelligently question that theory is with equal or greater evidence that supports their assertions. So far, no one has been able to do that consistently, despite those who insist the evidence for evolution doesn't add up.

I have my own problems with academia's heavy reliance on consensus in the scientific community, I assert it has hindered progress for decades and even centuries, but a disbelief in established theories by the "unlearned" or even a handful of scientists isn't going to change anything without sufficient evidence and persistence to go along with it. You may as well be trying to prove the combustion engine doesn't work.

Isn't the quote about how at least some of the arguments being made for scientific support for evolution are not going to be tried on this Professor; in fact the point was they won't even try because they already know his deep knowledge on the subject and education precludes it, because they know it's a total waste of time and they could end up embarrassing themselves in the process. The point is if educated scientists can't agree because of the facts...where does that leave the true reality of the science that appears to support evolution.

I find it interesting that the most ardent supporters of evolution make statements that show cracks in the entire belief structure, this in turns leads to a philosophical quandary, but still "God didn't do it", so evolution must be the way, that is a philosophical choice, that then tries to bend the science to fit the belief.

My favorite from another thread

molecular evolution are the basis for naturalistic explanations of abiogenesis. It is true that these do have some relation and overlap in the sense that molecular change (in genes) drives biological evolution. So, it is not necessarily invalid to join the two, especially when you consider that it is hard to draw a definitive line between life and non-life.

This person who said this fully supports evolution and the quote is from a published article.

Because of intelligent design plastered all over creation

quote]originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Yep, we don't fully understand something so it's definitely a big guy in the sky snapping his fingers and making stuff.

I mean there is no other logical way other than an all mighty creator that gave up on his creation. It's impossible apparently.

I wish this guy in the sky that is almighty would just show up and say "here I am, I'm real". That's not much to askof an almighty being that created everything right?

I'll call you when he/she/it shows up

Actually Vec, that’s pretty dumb to start the “God” thing again
The statement was about the fact some scientists think evolution is stupid as are those who believe in it, probably

Yet to win some stars you make it a God thing

Why not deal with the science of evolution rather than create strawman arguments to protect your silly little fundamentalist faith

Guess if you scientific intellectualism is that poor creating a God argument is your only option, I understand but it’s disappointing

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Actually Vec, that’s pretty dumb to start the “God” thing again
The statement was about the fact some scientists think evolution is stupid as are those who believe in it, probably

Alright, go ahead and tell us how you think physical life came about.

I think my personal beliefs are pretty well known but are irrelevant to the op and this thread
Some scientists think evolution doesn’t make sense as it stands
I agree

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Vector99

Dont bother. The real problem is the evidence that is presented goes beyond simple explanations and requires in depth scientific knowledge and analysis.
In other words, big scary science words and methods make the fundies uncomfortable.

Well use them big words or are you saying those big scary science words are beyond you and you take scientists beliefs by faith
How could you make such a silly comment and not see it was so childish

Fundies, buddy, you are the fundie, you are the one who can’t understand big words or you would school everyone and end the argument
Evolutionists are a collective of fundies believing anything that suits their narrative, like religious fundies but atheists

Why is I am the non science guy demanding science and those for science deny science be explained
Why do you hate science?

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
The vast majority of academics consider evolution a "settled science" whether or not all the details have been worked out, meaning there is enough conclusive evidence pointing in that direction to be confident in the theory.
At this point in time the only way anyone is going to be able to intelligently question that theory is with equal or greater evidence that supports their assertions. So far, no one has been able to do that consistently, despite those who insist the evidence for evolution doesn't add up.

I have my own problems with academia's heavy reliance on consensus in the scientific community, I assert it has hindered progress for decades and even centuries, but a disbelief in established theories by the "unlearned" or even a handful of scientists isn't going to change anything without sufficient evidence and persistence to go along with it. You may as well be trying to prove the combustion engine doesn't work.

But the combustion engine does work, seen the empirical evidence to that
That’s dumb Klass, younare better than that

a reply to: Raggedyman

Time and time again I've provided evidence and it gets ignored.

Or I basically get accused of throwing word salad and attempting to use the big words to sound smart.
Others have as well. So use the search function.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
If the theory of evolution is too complicated for you, go and read a magical book.

Anti-scientism is the way to the dark ages.
Nothing, really nothing good can come out of that.

I agree. Science has been hugely successful over the last 200 years. Much more successful than just praying to God.

People who doubt evolution simply have not studied the topic.

Every living cell has DNA. It's a clue!

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Vector99

Dont bother. The real problem is the evidence that is presented goes beyond simple explanations and requires in depth scientific knowledge and analysis.
In other words, big scary science words and methods make the fundies uncomfortable.

I don't think it is as bad as you make it out.

Take a look fish for example. Fish have two eyes. We have two eyes. Fish have two nostrils. We have two nostrils. Fish have a spine. We have a spine. Fish have a mouth, a digestive track, and a poop hole. We have a mouth, a digestive track, and a poop hole. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to realize there is a pattern here!

a reply to: dfnj2015

They dont believe in taxonomic traits. It's clearly an illusion.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
As we have discussed to no end here in this forum that the science thoroughly disproves the type of evolution that made a one celled creature and evolved it all the way to 2 modern humans, male and female.

What I find amazing about people who care about whether or not evolution is real is their complete lack of faith in God.

An omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake fossil and carbon dating evidence. And omnipotent God does not have any limitations. Anyone who tries to discredit evolution is really expressing their own lack of faith or belief in an omnipotent God.

People who lack faith cannot accept the idea there is absolutely not a single shred of evidence for the existence of God. People who lack faith want evidence so they can make a "decision" about the existence of God. People have faith in God precisely because there is no evidence. Having a belief in God is not a decision based on evidence. Having a belief in God is a "choice" based on no reason.

So this endless attempt by people who lack faith in God trying to prove evolution is somehow not scientifically valid so they can claim God created man is so tiresome. It just shows someone's complete lack of faith in God or their own belief system.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: dfnj2015

They dont believe in taxonomic traits. It's clearly an illusion.

Fish have a poop hole and so do we. Every cell has DNA.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: dfnj2015

They dont believe in taxonomic traits. It's clearly an illusion.

You might find this interesting. The theory of evolution is not perfect and may need some refinements. But there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Here's an interesting discussion on the nature of plant and animal forms beyond how DNA defines life you might find interesting:



Molecular biology may not be the whole answer but I as I said the principles of how evolution works are kind of hard to dispute since it's seen everywhere in nature.

It wasn't just Darwin promoting the idea of evolution. Here is a video on Gregor Mendel:



If evolution were not true and God created all life then DNA would not exist because there would be no need for it.

a reply to: dfnj2015

People who doubt evolution simply have not studied the topic. 

That is a very uneducated conclusion

And is absolutely not true

Every living cell has DNA.

Yes they do.

It's a clue!

???

Can DNA prove or disprove
Evolution or creationism?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Take a look fish for example. Fish have two eyes. We have two eyes. Fish have two nostrils. We have two nostrils. Fish have a spine. We have a spine. Fish have a mouth, a digestive track, and a poop hole. We have a mouth, a digestive track, and a poop hole. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to realize there is a pattern here!

WOW...

No way...

Really?

Hey everyone we don't have to debate this anymore!!!

It's been proven!!!

fish have the same biological make up as humans...

We are so similar
So we must have came from fish

just undeniable proof right there

LOL

I'm pretty sure every mammal has all those same characteristics right?

I mean we can all agree we didn't come from trees then right?

Because atleast now we can rule out anything that doesn't have...

2 eyes
2 nostrils
1 spine
1 mouth
1 digestive tract
1 "poop hole"

LOL

a reply to: dfnj2015

If evolution were not true and God created all life then DNA would not exist because there would be no need for it. 

What if GOD created evolution?

And how do you know ?

Maybe GOD is just a lot smarter than scientists...
and definitely a lot smarter then you lol

Why does everyone think you can't have both???

Why can't we have GOD and Evolution together???

I mean if anything everyone needs to at least stop acting like they know something...

Because the truth of the matter is...
neither side can prove or disprove the other

I believe you can have both

Young earth creationists are why these arguments keep coming up. They believe in the absolute word of the bible, so there is no room for evolution by natural selection as it bypasses their god.

Religious people are not the problem, these people are.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
Young earth creationists are why these arguments keep coming up. They believe in the absolute word of the bible, so there is no room for evolution by natural selection as it bypasses their god.

Religious people are not the problem, these people are.

Absolutely